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Mead Lovers Digest #1525
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1525, 13 June 2011
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1525 13 June 2011
Mead Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: A Question on Oxygenation (Dick Dunn)
MLD, To be or not to be.... (Robert Lewis)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011 ("Joanna Bailey")
shut it down? (circle mouse)
Re: Brewing/meadmaking/cidermaking and economic cycles ("Bill Pierce")
Post for MLD (smarend1@frontiernet.net)
Re: dying beverage or too successful? (Micah Millspaw) or price of (Mike Faul)
Re: Hydromel question ("David Houseman")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011 (jesse williams)
RE: A Question on Oxygenation (Stephen Morley)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011 (Ron Smith)
Re: Dark Braggot ("Dave Polaschek")
Re: price of honey (Caroline Taymor)
Re: Hydromel (Dick Dunn)
Halting the demise of MLD (Paul Millns)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011 (John McCue)
Responses to last MLD (Jeff Rothrock)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011 (Spam-a-holic)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe and admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead#Archives
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: A Question on Oxygenation
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 10:39:21 -0600
"Chris" <asby0@yahoo.com> asked:
> If I'm preparing a high gravity mead (1.145) . How far into the ferment
> can I apply O2 without staling the mead? I applied O2 on the first day
> and the second day. Can I apply O2 on the fourth day?
Not a direct answer to your question, but don't start with your must at
such a high gravity. No amount of oxygen is going to offset the osmotic
shock to the yeast...they'll struggle and might not start at all.
Instead, start around 1.100 or so. Once you've got a good fermentation
going and the gravity has dropped a fair bit (but while fermentation is
still active), gradually "feed" more honey to the mead.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: MLD, To be or not to be....
From: Robert Lewis <mazerrob@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:06:01 -0400
It saddened me a bit to see this post, I admit, i have not been active in
several years now, but i remeber fondly, when i first discovered the
digest, encountering juicy little tidpits of information that has proven
very helpful. I am around long enough to remember the Mead Newsletter.
Nowadays, If i have a question, i generally type it into Google, and
usually find my answer, this may be the way of the future. (ask google
how do i clarify a melomel?)
even if discontinued, i think the archived ought to be kept available,
there are countless posts of great value there.
Whatever happens, i want to thank our Janitor for his contributions over
the years. Should we ever meet, my finest mead will be opened.
(I wonder how the Got Mead site is doing?)
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011
From: "Joanna Bailey" <jbmail@isomedia.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 09:58:12 -0700
I still enjoy perusing the list, even though I rarely have anything to
contribute.
My household is trying to get our brewing into a seasonal cycle based on
ingredients we produce on-site. Our bees are still getting established, so
we haven't taken enough honey from them to make mead with yet. Local honey
sells for about $35 a gallon, which isn't too bad for the quality.
We brew beer in late summer when our hops are ready, and cider in late fall
when the apples are harvested. We'll definitely be making mead again though,
and appreciate being able to learn from people here, no matter how long a
delay between postings.
- -Joanna
www.seventreesfarm.wordpress.com
------------------------------
Subject: shut it down?
From: circle mouse <circlemouse@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 10:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
well, I've just started keeping bees, and many of my fruit trees and shrubs
are finally coming into production. I hope to begin some ridiculous
experiments with my own honey and fruit in the relatively near future.
I had planned to ask questions, and post about failures and the occasional
success on the MLD. so I would prefer it not be shut down.
tel
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Brewing/meadmaking/cidermaking and economic cycles
From: "Bill Pierce" <BillPierce@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 13:07:16 -0400
In MLD #1524, Talon McCormick puts forth the thesis that the lack of posts
to the digest is due to the lingering economic recession. Actually,
evidence points to the fact that homebrewing and production of other
alcoholic beverages are countercyclical; there tends to be more interest in
a poor economy. Fewer people are working, and they are working less; this
provides them with more time to devote to other pursuits. The cost of
home-produced beverages is less than those that are bought (no taxes), and
especially those consumed at bars and restaurants. Time spent at home is
also less expensive than traveling and attending entertainment venues.
Longtime homebrew and winemaking shop proprietors frequently report this is
the case, and the current protracted economic downturn has been no
exception. Most shops are doing quite well these days.
Brew on!
Bill Pierce
Cellar Door Homebrewery
Burlington, Ontario
------------------------------
Subject: Post for MLD
From: smarend1@frontiernet.net
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:35:04 +0000 (UTC)
I saw the last issue/posts for MLD and someone stated they would again
make mead when the price of honey came down. I agree, the price of honey
is pretty high; however, as a new mead maker, I like this hobby. I have
stayed with one-gallon batches to keep the costs per batch low and to
experiment within my budget.
What are your costs for honey? Here is Arizona we have a local apiary
in Flagstaff, AZ where I can get honey for $3 per pound from the apiary
or for around $3.50 per pound from the local farmers maket. Is this the
going rate, or is this cost low or high? I would like to hear from other
mead makers from around the country. Thanks.
Stephen Arend
------------------------------
Subject: Re: dying beverage or too successful? (Micah Millspaw) or price of
From: Mike Faul <mfaul@faul.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 10:45:19 -0700
Well as a commercial mead maker I can certainly tell you that the price
of honey is going up. It will continue to go up for the foreseeable future.
When I started making mead commercially the price of honey was around
$.45 per pound. Now it is in the $2.50 range. Is that because there
isn't as much honey? Well possibly. Remember also that the value of the
dollar in the USA as dropped and hence the cost of things have gone up.
If the price of honey continues to rise at that rate I expect that fewer
and fewer commercial mead makers will be able to continue to make mead
and will then go out of business unless they have other options.
If you are a beekeeper and have your own honey supply then you are only
at the will of nature and in a better position. But to replicate the
volume that I have you would need about 600 beehives (15 tons per year).
That is a company unto itself.
Home mead making is probably impacted by the cost of honey and the
downturn in the economy. If you are out of work you are certainly not
spending your unemployment or savings on honey to make mead.
Just some random thoughts...
Mike
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Hydromel question
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman@verizon.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 19:26:52 -0400
Chris,
Yes, I've made several hydromels. OG ranges from 1.064 to 1.072. I use
wine yeasts. My favorite is Cote de Blanc. But Montrachet, Montpellier
and Narbonne also worked very well. Final gravity actually left these as
semi-sweet to just barely dry. One did win a 1st place at the Mazer Cup as
a semi-sweet hydromel. These make very drinkable meads, more so IMHO than
standard strength or stronger meads.
David Houseman
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011
From: jesse williams <jesse.w84@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:27:38 -0500
I have not been making mead very long, and have only been a reader for 6
months. I still read every post and look back on the old ones for info. I
don't have a lot to add to conversation due to little experience, but the
posts are inspirational and will be greatly missed. Thank you for reading
Jesse.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: A Question on Oxygenation
From: Stephen Morley <stephen@morley.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:34:29 -0400
General rule seems to be that you can oxygenate up to the 1/3 sugar break
which you can approximate by using the point at which your specific gravity
has fallen 1/3 of the distance between your initial and final (estimate)
gravity.
Stephen
- -----Original Message-----
Subject: A Question on Oxygenation
From: Chris <asby0@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:47:43 -0500
If I'm preparing a high gravity mead (1.145) . How far into the ferment can
I apply O2 without staling the mead? I applied O2 on the first day and the
second day. Can I apply O2 on the fourth day?
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011
From: Ron Smith <rbsmith12@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 16:17:29 -0400
I'm like others here, fairly new to fermentation of any kind, but jumping
head first. I brew beer about once a month, only been doing it for about a
year and a half, but man I love it. I've only tried one mead and have to say
this newsletter encouraged me to try that. Quality is still unproven, it was
terrible right after it finished fermenting. If it doesn't ever taste good,
I've started making mead and will continue. I hope you keep this
newsletter going. I tend to not comment much, sort of a "lurker". I guess I
should be more of a contributer. Social responsibilty and all of that.
I want to make the Barkshack GingerMead that Papazian talks about in the New
Joy of HomeBrewing. Anyone ever tried it? What yeast did you use? I'm
thinking about using Danstar Nottingham, an ale yeast that is tolerent of
higher alcohol levels. I have used it several times making beer. Should be
able to handle alcohol level of 11% and leave the FG a little higher, which
sometimes I (and my wife) like. My last and first mead I used Red Star
Premier Yeast and the ABU was high, 15.3%, OG - 1.110 and FG - 0.996,
fairly dry. I have had the same problem (?) with wine. My Blackberry
wine was OG - 1.120 and FG - 0.990. Used Lalvin D-47 yeast on that one. Any
one beside me like a sweeter end product? Alcohol is not a problem to make.
:-)
Please, if anyone can see a problem my numbers or techniques, say so. I am
new and very interested. The experience you people have is invaluble to me
and I'm sure other newbies. Thank you for the work you put into publishing
the newsletter and your comments. Us new guys really depend on you.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Dark Braggot
From: "Dave Polaschek" <davep@davespicks.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 15:02:07 -0500 (CDT)
Jeff Peck <lyulfr@comcast.net> wrote:
> Just to stir up some conversation, does anyone have a good recipe for a
> Dark Braggot?
The method I used in
<http://davespicks.com/writing/mme/recipes/davebracket.html> would work
well with a dark braggot. Instead of basing it on a light-ale recipe, base
it on a porter, and then feed it a dark wildflower honey instead of a
light clover honey.
I can't predict the final alcohol content exactly, but I would guess that
you'd could go as high as 12-14% if you wanted, or you could stop earlier
and leave it a little dry. Sweeten with lactose if you'd like it sweet
without being overly alcoholic.
The fun thing about this is that you get to use a wine-thief and taste as
you go. Even if you're not sure what you're trying to taste, this helps
you learn to guess where a batch is heading, especially if you make notes.
- -DaveP
------------------------------
Subject: Re: price of honey
From: Caroline Taymor <caroskis@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 14:38:24 -0700
As a brand new meadmaker (I've made one batch), price is a huge factor
here. The cheapest honey I can find (which is the pretty tasty stuff
at our brewshop) is 3.50 a lb, which mean that a 5g batch is at least
$45 and usually over 50 dollars. In this economic climate (which while
supposedly picking up, isn't something we're seeing), my partner (the
beer man) and I (the mead lady) are both cutting back on brewing. It's
not cheaper to make your own if you wouln't have otherwise had the
money to spend on alcohol. Beer is cheaper, we can do 5 g for 25
dollars, so we make it a little more often.
I would love to be brewing mead 4-5 times a year, but at the moment we
can afford about 1x a year. Maybe two if we cut back on other things.
So there's not much talking and planning and a lot more reading
happening on my part.
I'd love for the mld to be kept open even if it's slow.
- -Caroline
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Hydromel
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 01:00:33 -0600
"Chris" (<asby0@yahoo.com>) asked:
>...I have a nice Tupelo Honey from Florida. I want to make a hydromel...
What do you mean by "hydromel"? This term is sometimes (mis)used to mean
a low-alcohol mead, which is unfortunate, but your posting suggests that's
what you mean.
You follow on thus:
> I don't want to dry it out. That's my biggest fear. I want a starting
> gravity of around 1.070 and a final of about 1.012 to 14.
>
> Standard wine yeasts will not grant this attenuation. I'm considering
> using a beer yeast. I'm an all grain brewer.
Coming from the standpoint of an all-grain brewer, you need to adjust your
understanding of "attenuation". That's a reference to how much of the
total sugar(s) can be fermented, but it doesn't apply to mead because ALL
of the sugars in honey are fermentable. (OK, it's only 99%:) The only
things that will stop yeast in a mead are nutrient starvation and alcohol
limit...and neither of those are easily controlled. Moreover, at the
starting gravity you're suggesting, few yeasts will give up before all
the sugar is gone.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Halting the demise of MLD
From: Paul Millns <Paul.Millns@nottingham.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:59:11 +0100
Hi
I'm saddened to hear of the threat to the future of MLD but I supposed
that I, like many of its readers I am partly to blame, we all need to put
fingers to key boards (or iphones) and say or ask those things we really
want to post online. I personally have had a lull in my mead making because
I have had three poor years with my bees. Maybe the few colonies I keep
have been struck by 'colony collapse disorder' or maybe it was just part of
the natural cycle of good and bad years. My experiences have been echoed
by many other beekeepers and has lead to higher prices of honey and it's
lack of availability. This year is looking better already than last year
so I will certainly be making more mead this year and will try and share
my experiences with the forum.
I realise that you don't want to turn MLD in to a beekeeping forum but it
wouldn't hurt to hear a little more from the honey producers (I know bees
can't access the internet!)
That' my pennies worth
Cheers
Paul
Paul Millns
Senior Laboratory Technician,
(E floor RPS & Deputy School Safety Officer), E70, The School of Biomedical
Sciences.
The Medical School.
Queen's Medical Centre.
Nottingham.
NG7 2UH
0115 8230154
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011
From: John McCue <john_mccue@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 06:33:12 -0400
Carrot blossom honey
Have you thought of making what might be called a carrot cake mead.
Adding some carrot juice, cinnamon, allspice, and vanilla seed pod, and
use a non-traditional yeast, such as a nut brown ale yeast to provide
some nut-like flavors. The problem with this yeast is that it will have
a tough time with the honey so don't forget to use enough activator or
add some sugar to help it along.
Good luck, and report back what you did. I love non-traditional recipes
and this is one I had already thought of, but did not have access to the
carrot blossom honey.
Slainte,
Q
------------------------------
Subject: Responses to last MLD
From: Jeff Rothrock <jeff.rothrock@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 03:36:11 -0700
RE: Subject: A Question on Oxygenation
From: Chris <asby0@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:47:43 -0500
If I'm preparing a high gravity mead (1.145) . How far into the ferment
can I apply O2 without staling the mead? I applied O2 on the first day
and the second day. Can I apply O2 on the fourth day?
- ----------
This really depends more on the specific gravity at the time of aeration
/a½ding O2. You generally don't want to add more O2 after the 1/3
sugar break?1.096-1.097 for this specific case).
However, higher gravity musts can benefit from additional O2 all the way up
to the 1/2 sugar break (1.072-1.073 for your recipe). After this point,
however, it seems best to seal up the fermentation vessel and just gently
stir the lees into suspension every other day or so.
- -Jeff Rothrock
- ----------
RE: Subject: Hydromel
From: Chris <asby0@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 07:34:38 -0500
<snip>
I don't want to dry it out. That's my biggest fear. I want a starting
gravity of around 1.070 and a final of about 1.012 to 14.
Standard wine yeasts will not grant this attenuation. I'm considering
using a beer yeast. I'm an all grain brewer.
Has anyone here made hydromels at the gravity ranges I've specified? And,
if so, what yeast did you utilize?
- ------------------
I've made two hydromels at the gravity range specified. In all honesty,
I used wine yeast to ferment all the way dryness, stabilized, then
backsweetened to taste. This method is a lot more predictable and
repeatable than using a low attenuating yeast, hoping it will stop right
where you want. It's also pretty hard to force yeast to stop during active
fermentation (hard, but not impossible).
Also consider beer yeast attenuation is lower than 100% for wort, but not
necessarily for a mead must where almost all the sugar is easily fermented
by yeast (as opposed to beer which retains some residual sugars the yeast
can't easily digest, in most styles). Thus, you might not actually get 70%
attenuation like a yeast advertises, since that number is in reference to
beer making.
Hope that helps! :)
- -Jeff Rothrock
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1524, 12 June 2011
From: Spam-a-holic <spamalot@catscoffeechocolate.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 19:09:53 -0400
> I don't want to dry it out. That's my biggest fear. I want a starting
> gravity of around 1.070 and a final of about 1.012 to 14.
>
> Standard wine yeasts will not grant this attenuation. I'm considering
> using a beer yeast. I'm an all grain brewer.
Well, I make nearly all my mead with beer yeast - and I'd be shocked
if a 1.070 didn't end up below 0.999. My last 1.078 must ended at
0.995 using Danstar Windsor (which Americanized beer brewers complain
doesn't attenuate as well as Nottingham, as they strive to make
English ale that's as close to American lager as they can manage) - I
like some body in my beer, so I think it's a good thing. Doesn't stop
it from eating honey 'til the cows come home, though.
It's actually not that easy to have yeast salute and expire at any
reasonable alcohol content, without doing something drastic to them
(ie, pasteurize them)
> It is incredibly expensive to make right now.
Shopping for a decent price on honey takes some doing, to be sure.
Look for bulk deals direct from beekeepers (ie, buy and use or buy
and split with friends 5 gallons/20 Liters/60 lbs at once.) While I
did not bite, the beekeeper I last bought from claimed to be willing
to "sharecrop" the mead - ie, he'd give me the honey and I'd give him
half the mead, or something like that. I do recall that finding 60
lbs at a price I was willing to pay took me a couple of months of
looking. Buying from "beer wine" suppliers is hopelessly high priced,
IME.
I'm also against shutting down the digest (but felt that posting just
for that was silly), but think it's a good idea to modify the sign-up
message (and perhaps to encourage those who sign up to make a post
themselves...) As anyone who recalls my typical contribution knows, I
tend to advocate for patience in mead-making - the same in digest-
reading probably won't finish anyone off.
Lawrence Smith
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1525
*******************************
