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Mead Lovers Digest #1456
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1456, 24 January 2010
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1456 24 January 2010
Mead Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: possibility of using molasses in mead (Mike Faul)
Joe - cyser (Amy Satterlund)
Re: MLD #1455, 18/2/10 Cyser, using molasses (Arthur Torrey)
Re: Meadllenium? (meadguild@aol.com)
Re: possibility of using molasses in mead (meadguild@aol.com)
Re: Caramelizing Honey ("David Houseman")
Re: Cyzer (Marc Shapiro)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1455, 18 January 2010 (Chris Fales)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1455, 18 January 2010 ("Dennis Key")
Re: possibility of using molasses in mead (Dick Dunn)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: possibility of using molasses in mead
From: Mike Faul <mfaul@faul.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 08:11:30 -0800
I wouldn't. Molasses is 45% sugar. 100% fermentable. The remainder is
non-fermentable solids. Not sweet.
In 2002 I made 15,000 gallons of rum from molasses. That's about the
only thing it is good for ... other than cattle feed.
Mike
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: possibility of using molasses in mead
> From: hansvater@comcast.net
> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:46:06 +0000 (UTC)
>
> Has anyone every tried using molasses in making mead. I have seen in some
> recipies to add corn syrup to mead if you want a sweeter mead. has anyone
> tried using this?
>
> Brian Hackman
------------------------------
Subject: Joe - cyser
From: Amy Satterlund <oregonamy@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:48:26 -0800
Joe - yes, you definitely want to let the cider sit for 24+ hours
before pitching yeast. In fact, I would give it 48 just to be sure.
Amy
------------------------------
Subject: Re: MLD #1455, 18/2/10 Cyser, using molasses
From: Arthur Torrey <arthur_torrey@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:04:17 -0500
On Monday 18 January 2010 10:40:22 mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Cyzer (Joe Kuhl)
> possibility of using molasses in mead (hansvater@comcast.net)
You might try calling around to any orchards in your area to see if they have
any fresh squeezed and unadulterated - I have heard that some orchards keep
their apples and squeeze fresh on a fairly regular basis. Don't know how true
this is as I always get my cider in the fall, so I've never tried for it at
other times of the year...
At any rate, added sulfites shouldn't be a big issue, as long as you aren't
concerned by those who claim they raise health issues (mostly asthmatics) stir
your must well before adding the yeast, and possibly make a good starter batch
and you should be fine...
The thing that WILL cause you MAJOR problems are SORBATES - I once got a batch
of cider that had some in it, and I had a hellacious time getting it to
ferment - I ended up with about 8 gallons of must, as I kept trying different
starter solutions and adding more yeast, etc... Finally got it to go, but it
took about 5 packets of different yeasts, and about a week of effort - the
result was OK, but not as good as some of my stuff... Read labels carefully,
and don't assume that a brand that's good in one batch will be OK in the next
- - I got hit by a formula change, one year the stuff was clean, the next year
it was sorbate contaminated, and the only indication was in the fine print on
the label...
For whatever it's worth, I don't add any kind of sulfites or other
preservatives to my brews, I'm of the "feed it until it stops fermenting"
camp... Takes longer, but IMHO tastes better...
> Subject: Cyzer
> From: Joe Kuhl <joe.kuhl@hotmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:09:09 -0700
>
> I am thinking of trying to make a cyzer, well maybe and apple cider with
> honey. I have a recipe, but at this time of year the only apple juice I
> can get is bottled that has had sulfites added to it,as a preservative.
> It is from a local apple orchard and they put out good stuff. I was just
> wondering about the sufited juice, if it would affect the fermentation
> process adversely. I know that most of the recipes I have found call for
> sulfiting the fresh apple juice. I have never used sulfite before and
> was wondering if having it in a stored juice would be any different that
> putting it in fresh juice? In the fresh juice it says you have to wait
> 24 hours before pitching the yeast. So should the apple juice be put in
> the carboy and then rest for 24 hours before pitching?
>
> Hope to hear back.
>
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
You can put whatever you like in a mead, but the question is whether or not
the purists will object... The strictest interpretation is that in order to
be a "Real" mead, the only major fermentables should be honey and possibly
whatever fruits are added in the case of a melomel...
A lot of folks would say that corn syrup, or molasses would be "cheating" but
far as I'm concerned, give it a try and if it tastes good, enjoy... (I don't
know of any reason why it wouldn't work - though how it would taste I don't
know...) I would expect the finished product to be somewhat on the order of a
rum-like flavor, as that is what you get from fermented molasses, but I
couldn't say either way.
> Subject: possibility of using molasses in mead
> From: hansvater@comcast.net
> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:46:06 +0000 (UTC)
>
> Has anyone every tried using molasses in making mead. I have seen in some
> recipies to add corn syrup to mead if you want a sweeter mead. has anyone
> tried using this?
>
> Brian Hackman
- --
Arthur Torrey
Town Meeting Representative
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------------------------------
Subject: Re: Meadllenium?
From: meadguild@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:20:09 EST
From: dan@geer.org
> While it is certainly my responsibility to keep my eye on
> the ball, did I miss the announcement of Meadllenium here
> on mead-list@talisman? The time of year somehow reminded
> me this afternoon but, alas, it is now too late to enter.
I will be judging at Meadllennium this year. Hope to see
some of there.
I no longer drive and, thus, need to be chauffeured by my
childbride. Her new policy is I only travel out-of-State
for Mead Competitions. And I can live with that! ;)
Dick
- --
Richard D. Adams, CPA
Ellicott City, MD
------------------------------
Subject: Re: possibility of using molasses in mead
From: meadguild@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:39:46 EST
_hansvater@comcast.net_ (mailto:hansvater@comcast.net) wrote:
> Has anyone every tried using molasses in making mead.
> I have seen in some recipes to add corn syrup to mead
> if you want a sweeter mead. has anyone tried using this?
Mike Faul of Rabbits Foot Meadery warned me about fermenting
molasses. But since a friend gave me a gallon of molasses,
I ignored Mike's warning and made a five gallon batch.
Fermented molasses has a odor that is difficult to describe.
My childbride referred to it as a stench. After it fermented
down to 1.015, it was racked into a secondary and was put into
the corner of a closet. It was racked again at 3 months and
one year, and was kept for over two years.
At the same time, I fermented a gallon of Sweet Sorghum.
It's results were similar. Both were undrinkable and
eventually I need the carboys for other batches.
Keep in mind that this was at a time when I was drinking whole
batches of three month old Mead.
Dick
- --
Richard D. Adams, CPA
Ellicott City, MD
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Caramelizing Honey
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:36:14 -0500
Caramelizing honey will change the color and taste; but, how about body?
When one creates crystal malt, the starches are converted by enzymes to
sugar and unfermentable dextrins, which contribute to body and mouthfeel,
and color and flavor during the drying/roasting. Honey is sugar (38%
glucose, 30% fructose and ~7% maltose), with some acid (primarily gluconic
acid) and a number of proteins, complex carbohydrates, trace chemicals and
minerals, all dependent on the source particular to the variety of honey.
Unless the caramelization increases the unfermentable dextrins (complex
carbohydrates) that cannot be fermented, then this won't affect the body.
Does caramelizing sucrose (table sugar) create dextrins? I may be wrong
but I don't believe so. So why would caramelizing honey? Does this
create melanoidins or burnt sugar?
David Houseman
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cyzer
From: Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:47:28 -0800
> From: Joe Kuhl <joe.kuhl@hotmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:09:09 -0700
>
> I am thinking of trying to make a cyzer, well maybe and apple cider with
> honey. I have a recipe, but at this time of year the only apple juice I
> can get is bottled that has had sulfites added to it,as a preservative.
<SNIP>
> I have never used sulfite before and
> was wondering if having it in a stored juice would be any different that
> putting it in fresh juice? In the fresh juice it says you have to wait
> 24 hours before pitching the yeast. So should the apple juice be put in
> the carboy and then rest for 24 hours before pitching?
Joe,
I frequently use commercial juice to make cyser and it is virtually
impossible to find juice without preservatives. Sulfites are much less
of a problem than sorbate. In answer to your question, yes, open the
juice and let is sit for a day. But put that waiting time to good use!
Make a starter solution and build it up to a good sized, active
starter. That way, when you pitch it into your juice you already have a
lot of happy yeast.
- --
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1455, 18 January 2010
From: Chris Fales <chris.fales@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:18:24 -0800 (PST)
A response to carmelizing honey: I was warming a 4# jar of honey to use
in a beer by putting it in a spagetti cooker with water just about up to
the jar lid, over very low fire. Unfortunately I forgot it and the next
morning it was very nicely carmelized. It lent a nice sweet carmel taste
to the beer which I balanced with some heavy handed hopping.
A second topic: Are there any recommendations for the types of yeast to
use in making various types of meads? The amount of honey will probably
be about 12# per 5 gallons with a dry, but not overly dry mead desired.
I am planning a melomel (the fruit in addition to the same amount of honey)
and a straight [orange blossom honey] mead - would different yeasts be
suggested or would the same be ok?
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1455, 18 January 2010
From: "Dennis Key" <dione13@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:51:19 -0700
Joe,
See if you can find Knudsens cider or apple juice. It is organic and if it
uses a preservative, it will be citric acid which won't affect fermentation.
I have made hard cider by uncapping the gallon jug, pitching some yeast and
placing a fermentation lock. Beyond easy!
Is there an organic market in your area? Whole Foods, Vitamin Cottage, or a
co-op? They would have all kinds of organic juices that would be suitable.
Dione Greywolfe
>
> Subject: Cyzer
> From: Joe Kuhl <joe.kuhl@hotmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:09:09 -0700
>
> I am thinking of trying to make a cyzer, well maybe and apple cider with
> honey. I have a recipe, but at this time of year the only apple juice I
> can get is bottled that has had sulfites added to it,as a preservative.
> > Hope to hear back. <snip>
>
> Joe
>
>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: possibility of using molasses in mead
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 15:08:47 -0700
Brian Hackman asked:
> Has anyone every tried using molasses in making mead. I have seen in some
> recipies to add corn syrup to mead if you want a sweeter mead. has anyone
> tried using this?
Well, let's start with the corn syrup: Adding corn syrup will not make a
sweeter mead. Corn syrup is really just glucose and water; glucose is
entirely (and easily) fermentable. So adding corn syrup is just like
adding any other fermentable sugar in that sense...it will ferment out
and increase the alcohol.
However, corn syrup as you buy it in the baking-supplies aisle of a grocer
also has salt and vanilla in it--which may not fit with the flavors in
your mead.
Now, on to molasses. The simplest advice is "Don't even bother trying."
It's not that the experiment wouldn't be worthwhile...but rather that
it's already been tried, and the result found to be quite unpleasant.
The sugars in the molasses will ferment out, leaving you with a character
that is sort of burnt, acrid...hard to describe. Open the bottle of
molasses and think about drinking mead as you smell it. (Tasting it, the
sugars will deceive you.)
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1456
*******************************
