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Mead Lovers Digest #1409
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1409, 16 February 2009
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1409 16 February 2009
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Chamomile? ("Louis LeBlanc")
Re: Re-pitching yeast (docmac9582@aol.com)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1408, 11 February 2009 (Chazzone)
Re: re-pitching yeast (Chazzone)
Re: unwanted pettilence (MeadGuild@aol.com)
Re: re-pitching yeast (mail-box)
Re: unwanted pettilence (mail-box)
How much nutrient is enough? ("Mitchell Omichinski")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Chamomile?
From: "Louis LeBlanc" <brew@fayreforest.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:23:56 -0500 (EST)
Hello again everyone,
I'm trying to plan my next couple batches of mead, and I've decided my next
will be a sweet acerglyn (maple mead). The other was going to be a straight
up sweet mead, but my sister is pushing hard for chamomile. Well, she's a
good sister, so why not?
The problem is how much chamomile and how to add it. I want a sweet mead,
preferably in the 12% to 14% alcohol range, and I'd like to get the chamomile
in there somewhere between overpowered and "where's the chamomile?".
I'm a big fan of Schramm's book, and he says chamomile is great for mead, but
never discusses quantities and methods of addition.
I've been trying the hands on method mentioned on the list recently, and I
prefer to avoid adding sulfites, stabilizers, etc.. This means either letting
the yeast work itself out to its tolerance, or planning a sparkling mead. I
know a hop mead can be very nice as a sparkling mead but I don't know if
chamomile would be any good like this.
Does anyone have suggestions for a 5 gallon batch?
Thank you all.
Lou
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Re-pitching yeast
From: docmac9582@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:27:17 -0500
Question:? Can yeast be re-pitched? I am on my 79th batch using the
same yeast over the past 12 years (White Labs Sweet Mead yeast WL720
that was gifted to me at the time).? I simply set aside some of the mead
dregs in a bottle in my basement.? When I next want to make more mead,
I add some sugar water and shake - then wait 1 to 3 weeks for activity to
start.? I usually add about 1/2 the "starter" (usually about 1 qt of 1/2
gal) and then refill the starter jug with honey water.? In 3 to 4 days,
I add another 1/2 of the refreshed starter, and refill.??
I have had dregs sitting for up to 1 1/2 years on a shelf in my basement
(under?12 to 14% alcohol residual mead) and it still kicked off, given
time.? I figure that if the Vikings could use a "magic paddle" to stir their
mead and assure a good fermentation, there must be a few good yeast cells
among the billions in the dregs that, with patience, will multiply.?In the
past 2 months, I started my most recent 180 pounds of Orange Blossom honey
into multiple sequential batches of mead (O.G. = 17.5% potential alcohol)
and all of the carboys?are progressing nicely.? In this case, I use about
1/2 gal of an actively fermenting batch to add to the next batch.?
I make about half traditional mead and half a mixture of a wide variety of
melomels and metheglins, and have used many different types of honey.? At
my son's request, I sent a sample of my yeast to him in Australia by simply
filtering some mead bottoms through paper towels, and wringing out most
of the mead before putting the paper towels into a baggie.? (He thought
my yeast?might not be the same as the yeast I started with many years ago,
but knows that it makes good mead).? I had to correspond with the Australian
customs several times to get it through to him, but he eventually received
the yeast and started more mead with it "down under"?using some strange
Australian honeys.?
I am not suggesting lengthy reuse of yeast is for everyone (and it would
almost certainly not work for lower alcohol beers), but it has worked well
for me thus far.?
Carl McMillin, PhD
BJCP #BO500
Brecksville, OH
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1408, 11 February 2009
From: Chazzone <chazzone@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 14:39:35 -0500
On Feb 11, 2009, at 9:22 AM, mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
>
> Subject: unwanted pettilence
> From: dan@geer.org
> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 21:26:50 -0500
>
> I have unintentionally pressurized bottles that need
> an explanation. The recipe was
>
> 4 gallons of water (well)
> 15# honey (mixed wetland)
> 2tsp of yeast nutrient (Fermax)
> 2tsp of yeast energizer (Carlson)
> D47 yeast (Lalvin)
> Original SG = 1.127
> Final SG - 1.029
>
> primary fermentation was 34 days
> racked to secondary at SG=1.029
> re-racked 87 days later, SG=1.029
> aged in carboy for 271 days, SG=1.029
>
> bottled by siphon without having moved
> the carboy in which the entirely clear
> product with an entirely stable SG had
> sat for 271 days in this its third carboy
>
> today is 70 days post-bottling, and three
> out of 24 bottles have been opened at random
> and all are highly pressurized
>
> the only ingredient that could change would
> be the introduction of oxygen in the bottling
> process, if that
>
> there is no haze
>
> theories? theories that can be tested?
>
> - --dan
No theories needed dan, There was a fair amount of sugar left, and
the yeast did what they do. Yeast are living cells, and they have
their own agenda and time clock. They were just hanging out taking a
rest, then all of a sudden, they got whipped up (along with some extra
O2) and shoved in to a nice dark place, and they went back to work.
Next time, if you want to bottle with such a high graviity, you'll
need to do something to stop future fermentation and stabilize the
mead. You can do that chemically or mechanically through
pasteurization.
One more thing, with so much sugar left, you might want to find some
refrigerator space for the remaining bottles. It'll stop the
fermentation and reduce the pressure, otherwise find an explosion
proof box and await the carnage.
- -zz
------------------------------
Subject: Re: re-pitching yeast
From: Chazzone <chazzone@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:01:11 -0500
On Feb 11, 2009, at 9:22 AM, mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
>
> Subject: re-pitching yeast
> From: dan@geer.org
> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 21:32:30 -0500
>
> Is anyone else re-pitching yeast, that is
> to say using the yeast from batch N for
> batch N+1 after racking batch N out of
> its primary fermentation?
>
> I've talked at some length with a micro-
> brewery's brewmaster and they re-pitch up
> to 12 times, using White Labs for analysis
> at re-pitch #6 then at each of #9 through
> #12. He is re-pitching as he attempts to
> select strains that do what he wants them
> to do, and uses White Labs to not only
> analyze but also to maintain a failsafe
> culture from his selection process.
>
> While I am not yet remotely near that level
> of scale and precision, my question stands:
> is anyone here doing re-pitches? I would
> include anyone who is keeping a stockpile
> of regularly re-fed starter from which the
> pitch per batch is withdrawn (and replenished).
>
> - --dan
A few years ago, I was making the legal limit of mead for two
households/year (not a drop more, I swear Your Honor), and I
definitely "re-pitched".
Fermentation was vigorous and nearly complete in a week.
I could count on 6 runs out of a particular yeast bed before things
might start to go wonky.
As for quality, I won Silver in one of the largest wine competitions
in the U.S., with a bottle that I just took out of regular stock. I
had not planned on entering the show until the last minute when a
friend goaded me into it.
You need to keep things clean, and I pasteurize the must (no chemicals
here).
- -zz
------------------------------
Subject: Re: unwanted pettilence
From: MeadGuild@aol.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:26:34 EST
> I have unintentionally pressurized bottles that need
> an explanation. The recipe was
>
> 4 gallons of water (well)
> 15# honey (mixed wetland)
> 2tsp of yeast nutrient (Fermax)
> 2tsp of yeast energizer (Carlson)
> D47 yeast (Lalvin)
> Original SG = 1.127
> Final SG - 1.029
Was that one packet (5g) or two packets (10g) of D47.
> primary fermentation was 34 days
> racked to secondary at SG=1.029
> re-racked 87 days later, SG=1.029
> aged in carboy for 271 days, SG=1.029
>
> bottled by siphon without having moved
> the carboy in which the entirely clear
> product with an entirely stable SG had
> sat for 271 days in this its third carboy
>
> today is 70 days post-bottling, and three
> out of 24 bottles have been opened at random
> and all are highly pressurized
So the question is "Why, after 358 days in secondary,
fermentation was there no change in the SG and yet
fermentation is occurring in the bottles after 70 days?"
One obvious possibility is the temperature of the
secondary fermentation was too low. I have this problem
since all my equipment is in my basement. The floor is
rarely above 68F(20C) and, it would come as no surprise
if the average temperature of the floor is in the low
50's. Getting primaries and secondaries off the concrete
floor by putting them on small wooden pallets has made big
difference.
> the only ingredient that could change would
> be the introduction of oxygen in the bottling
> process, if that
>
> there is no haze
I doubt either of those two are factors.
> theories? theories that can be tested?
Measure the current SG. Put an airlock in a bottle, take it to a
warm part of your house. Give it a month and measure the SG
again..
The first measure should confirm the incomplete fermentation.
The second measure will indicate whether or not the
fermentation is now complete.
Dick
- --
Richard D. Adams, CPA (retired)
Moderator: misc.taxes.moderated
------------------------------
Subject: Re: re-pitching yeast
From: mail-box <mail-box@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:54:47 -0500
> Subject: re-pitching yeast
> From: dan@geer.org
> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 21:32:30 -0500
>
> Is anyone else re-pitching yeast, that is
> to say using the yeast from batch N for
> batch N+1 after racking batch N out of
> its primary fermentation?
>
> I've talked at some length with a micro-
> brewery's brewmaster and they re-pitch up
> to 12 times, using White Labs for analysis
> at re-pitch #6 then at each of #9 through
> #12. He is re-pitching as he attempts to
> select strains that do what he wants them
> to do, and uses White Labs to not only
> analyze but also to maintain a failsafe
> culture from his selection process.
>
> While I am not yet remotely near that level
> of scale and precision, my question stands:
> is anyone here doing re-pitches? I would
> include anyone who is keeping a stockpile
> of regularly re-fed starter from which the
> pitch per batch is withdrawn (and replenished).
>
> - --dan
Dan,
I think you hit on the key term here: "Microbrewery."
I know several brewers who repitch, some use it as a stepping up
method. First pitch is a mild, second an IPS, third is a barley wine.
That gives them a huge yeast cake for the barley wine and a near
guarantee of a completed fermentation.
But I know of no one who does this for mead or wine. Both are a longer
fermentation process, and both stress the yeast more on the first run
batch. I don't have any specific data to cite, but with a packet of
yeast costing $0.95 I just don't think there is any real utility in this
method for the home mead maker.
Cheers,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Re: unwanted pettilence
From: mail-box <mail-box@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:01:36 -0500
> Subject: unwanted pettilence
> From: dan@geer.org
> Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 21:26:50 -0500
>
> I have unintentionally pressurized bottles that need
> an explanation. The recipe was
>
> 4 gallons of water (well)
> 15# honey (mixed wetland)
> 2tsp of yeast nutrient (Fermax)
> 2tsp of yeast energizer (Carlson)
> D47 yeast (Lalvin)
> Original SG = 1.127
> Final SG - 1.029
>
> primary fermentation was 34 days
> racked to secondary at SG=1.029
> re-racked 87 days later, SG=1.029
> aged in carboy for 271 days, SG=1.029
>
> bottled by siphon without having moved
> the carboy in which the entirely clear
> product with an entirely stable SG had
> sat for 271 days in this its third carboy
>
> today is 70 days post-bottling, and three
> out of 24 bottles have been opened at random
> and all are highly pressurized
>
> the only ingredient that could change would
> be the introduction of oxygen in the bottling
> process, if that
>
> there is no haze
>
> theories? theories that can be tested?
>
> - --dan
Dan,
Any mead bottled with residual sugars can undergo renewed fermentation.
The added O2 you mention, the motion of racking and bottling, and
temperature changes all can fire up the yeast again. You can halt this
if you use sorbate and sulfite. Or if you filter. Or possibly if you
add enough neutral spirit to raise the alcohol level above the yeast
tolerance. Or more esoteric practices such as using light to sterilize
the mead.
But otherwise you'll always run the risk of pettilence or bottle bombs,
because you will have yeast and sugars together in the same environment.
Cheers,
Ken Taborek
------------------------------
Subject: How much nutrient is enough?
From: "Mitchell Omichinski" <zippitydoodah@mts.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:45:32 -0600
Mead Lovers
I have just finished fermenting my first batch (41 litres) of Buckwheat
Honey. It was the fastest fermentation ever (7 days) in my meading
experience. I followed the fermentation management practices often repeated
in MLD over the years (oxygenation, yeast hydration, staggered nutrition, pH
adjustment). Thank you all for the experience and advise so freely offered.
I have one dilemma regarding nutritional supplement for
fermentation. How much of it is enough and what can be the
consequences of too much. I have been using the Formol Titration
Method (www.fst.vt.edu/extension/enology/downloads/FermNitro.pdf
or www.smalloak.com/papers/formol.html ) to establish
base line nitrogen levels in the honey must, then using
the guidelines of Scott's Lab Fermentation manual 2008 (p.31)
(http://www.scottlaboratories.com/products/fermentation/documents/2008Fermentati
on_noprice.pdf
) to make additions of DAP and Fermaid K.
As far as how much to add, Scott's Lab recommends a total Yeast Assimilable
Nitrogen Content (YANC) of 200 mgN/litre (for musts of Brix 21 (sq 1.088))
to 350 mgN/litre (for musts of Brix 27 (sq 1.115)). Ken Schramm in his "The
Compleat Meadmaker" mentions a figure of 130 mgN/litre (page 54). I used
the 200 mgN/litre with the Buckwheat honey, and for some fruit wines. All
resulted with fast complete fermentation.
Does anyone have a quantitative idea as to the minimum YANC needed for
Honey must fermentation? The strange part of Scott's Lab procedures, is
that if you follow them to the letter (DAP additions for a total YANC of
150 mgN/litre at end of lag period and Fermaid K additions of 0.25g/litre
(25 mgN/litre) at 1/3 sugar depletion) you will never exceed 175mgN/litre
in your must. When I pointed this out to Scott,s Lab, they conceded that
the "math didn't work" for attaining 200 mgN/litre, and they suggested a
doubling of Fermaid K to 0.50g/litre. This suggestion, in spite of the fact
that the recommended maximum dosage of Fermaid K in the US is .25g/litre
due to thiamin content.
I would like to hear if anyone else has concerns of overdosing on nutrients,
and what if any might be deleterious effects.
Mitchell Omichinski
Portage la Prairie MB
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1409
*******************************
