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Mead Lovers Digest #1404
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1404, 15 January 2009
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1404 15 January 2009
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
wine yeasts in sake (Ron Stazuk)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1403, 13 January 2009 (montveil)
Re: New Meadmaker (MeadGuild@aol.com)
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1403, 13 January 2009 ("Vicky Rowe")
Re: New Meadmaker ("Paul Shouse")
RE: New Meadmaker (Joe Kuhl) ("Kurt Sonen")
Re: MLD #1403, 13/1/09 (Arthur Torrey)
Filtering ("Louis LeBlanc")
residual nutrients (dan@geer.org)
Re: New Meadmaker (mail-box)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: wine yeasts in sake
From: Ron Stazuk <crzyron@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:35:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:48:13 -0800
> From: "clayton green" <green.clayton@gmail.com> said:
>
> Hey, all. have any of you brewed sake? I have some favorite mead yeasts
> (K1, D47), but sake is cofermentation of a mold with the brewing yeast. The
> K1 has killer activity against other microbes. Anyone have any ideas on
> what strains are friendly.
Using Wyeast Sake Yeast:
http://www.wyeastlab.com/he_s_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=43
and a variation of: http://recepty.veruska.cz/_sys/eckhardt-sake.pdf
I've made award winning sake. YMMV
Ron Stazuk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1403, 13 January 2009
From: montveil <montveil@skybest.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:54:00 -0500
mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
(At the store the guy said to at least pasturize it. Have any of you made
mead without using heat and did it turn out ok?)
I usually pasteurize the must at 165 degrees F. for 10 minutes. It
knocks down the wild stuff and does not blow off the aromatics plus
seems to precipitate the proteins that may cause haze
Dan V in the NC mountains
------------------------------
Subject: Re: New Meadmaker
From: MeadGuild@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:55:54 EST
Joe Kuhl _joe.kuhl@hotmail.com_ (mailto:joe.kuhl@hotmail.com) asked:
> I am going to be making my first mead within the next 2 weeks.
> I will get my honey next Monday, Raspberry honey.
> I have 2 questions:
>
> 1) When I was getting my equipment the brew supply store that I used
> had a raspberry flavoring. When would I add this to the mead to enhance
> the raspberry flavor of the mead?
A Raspberry honey Mead will have a subtle Raspberry aroma and
a faint Raspberry flavor. If this flavoring is a Raspberry extract, it
will increase the aroma, but add little to the flavor.
> 2) I bought 2 books to read about making mead. The first was "The
> Complete Joy of Home Brewing" by Charlie Papazian and the 2nd was
> "The Compleat Meadmaker" by Ken Schramm. The first says to boil the
> must and the 2nd tells how to pasteurize the must. However in the 2nd
> one the author goes on to say that he does not use any heat at all when
> he makes his own mead. At the store the guy said to at least pasteurize it.
Charlie Papazian is a beer guy and beer guys boil. Ken Schramm
is a Mead guy and Mead guys rarely boil. Who are you going to
believe?
> Have any of you made mead without using heat and did it turn out ok?
If your honey has not been pasteurized, it's a good idea to
pasteurize it. It's also a good idea to heat your must if for no
other reason than to skim the stuff off the top. I put honey in
a fermenter and add two gallons of boiling water to make it
easier to stir. Then I top off with chilled water that was
previously boiled.
Dick
- --
Richard D. Adams, CPA (retired)
Moderator: misc.taxes.moderated
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1403, 13 January 2009
From: "Vicky Rowe" <gotmead@gotmead.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:02:55 -0500
Hi Michael,
That would have been me. Yes, if you aerate your mead daily (or twice daily
with melomels) during the first 1/3 of the ferment (you measure your
starting gravity and divide by 3), your mead will ferment more fully and
cleanly, and you'll get a faster fermentation. You must also add nutrients
when you pitch, and again at the lag phase (when it starts to bubble) and
then at the 1/3 ferment.
The meads that I have made using this method have fermented out in around
14-20 days, and all have been drinkable from that period (though many
improved with age). I didn't have a 'hot' one in the bunch, yet. I'm a firm
believer in fermentation management, so much so that I'm writing a book
about it.
If you want to get exact details for nutrient dosing and aeration (it varies
depending on the mead and yeast used) on your particular recipe, come over
to Gotmead.com and get a free registration, and post your recipe in the
recipe section asking for help to customize it. One of my Certified Mead
Mentors will help you fine-tune it to get the most out of it.
Wassail!
Vicky Rowe
Owner & Webmistress,
Gotmead.com
>I have searched the archives high and low but have not been able to find
>what I am looking for.... several months ago, Vicki (i think) made a posting
>about a "highly oxygenated" or "aerated" mead that she made, that apparently
>fermented and dropped clear in a series of days? (The details are hazy.)
>But I
>thought she discussed whipping the mead at a high speed with a blender
>attachment for like 5 minutes twice a day?
>Is this possible? Do you remember the posting? Can you help me find it?
>Did I imagine it?
>Most sincerely,
>Michael Maitland.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: New Meadmaker
From: "Paul Shouse" <paulhshouse@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:03:29 +0900
Joe-
Since you're now making mead, you're obviously a man of rare perception and
taste! Welcome!
Speaking of taste, your two questions are related. There's a long running
debate about whether or not to heat must before pitching yeast. My take on
the debate is that honey by it's very nature does not require pasteurization
because the only yeast able to survive in it does not cause off flavors, and
is killed once brewing water is added. By all means boil your brewing water,
add yeast nutrients, mix the honey in while the water is warm, aerate the
must and pitch a strong dose of activated yeast as soon as possible. This
way, the yeast will overwhelm any wild yeast or bacteria present, making
boiling or heating the honey is absolutely unnecessary.
The next question is: why not boil? Some traditional recipes do call for
boiling, and some people enjoy the smoothness they say comes from boiling.
Again, it's a matter of taste. Heating will drive off aromatic elements of
the honey and adversely (in my opinion) effect the flavor and bouquet of the
finished mead. I use mostly raw wildflower honeys and I greatly enjoy the
mix of nectar, pollen and propolis flavors that come out once the sweetness
of the simple sugars in the honey have been fermented out. Why else use
honey at all? Crude molasses is a lot cheaper and ferments better......
Now, about the raspberry flavoring; is it natural or artificial? is it
organic? Is it a juice concentrate or is it a puree? If you don't know the
answers to any of these questions, I'd say don't use it. The very best
raspberry flavoring you can get is raspberries! Freeze them and add half to
the primary fermentation and half to the secondary, and use a regular honey.
The raspberry honey you're buying is probably expensive. If it's worth the
price, it contains a very delicate raspberry blossom aroma that will be lost
if you mask it with 'raspberry' flavoring out of a bottle. Go ahead and
experiment with it, but my advice would be to make that batch with generic
honey.
- -Paul
------------------------------
Subject: RE: New Meadmaker (Joe Kuhl)
From: "Kurt Sonen" <KurtS2@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:59:22 -0500
From what I've tasted, raspberry honey tastes like honey. I cannot pick out
any raspberry.
If you want raspberry flavor, why not use raspberries? Any grocery store
carries frozen ones.
I think the flavorings don't always taste real, so I'd skip it, esp with the
real thing available.
Go with Ken's method.
Kurt
>
> Subject: New Meadmaker
> From: Joe Kuhl <joe.kuhl@hotmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:35:25 -0700
>
> I am going to be making my first mead within the next 2
> weeks. I will get my honey next Monday, Raspberry honey. I
> have 2 questions:
>
> 1) When I was getting my equipment the brew supply
> store that I used had a raspberry flavoring. When would I
> add this to the mead to inhance the raspberry flavor of the mead?
>
> 2) I bought 2 books to read about making mead. The
> first was "The Complete Joy of Home Brewing" by Charlie
> Papazian and the 2nd was "The Compleat Meadmaker" by Ken
> Schramm. The first says to boil the must and the 2nd tells
> how to pasturize the must. However in the 2nd one the author
> goes on to say that he does not use any heat at all when he
> makes his own mead. At the store the guy said to at least
> pasturize it. Have any of you made mead without using heat
> and did it turn out ok?
>
> Thanks
> Joe
------------------------------
Subject: Re: MLD #1403, 13/1/09
From: Arthur Torrey <arthur_torrey@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:33:34 -0500
On Tuesday 13 January 2009 13:32:52 mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Subject: New Meadmaker
> From: Joe Kuhl <joe.kuhl@hotmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 16:35:25 -0700
>
> I am going to be making my first mead within the next 2 weeks. I will
> get my honey next Monday, Raspberry honey.
> I have 2 questions:
>
> 1) When I was getting my equipment the brew supply store that I used
> had a raspberry flavoring. When would I add this to the mead to inhance
> the raspberry flavor of the mead?
Unless there are package directions to the contrary, I'd probably add it near
the end of secondary fermentation, probably at the last racking before
bottling.
> 2) I bought 2 books to read about making mead. The first was "The
> Complete Joy of Home Brewing" by Charlie Papazian and the 2nd was "The
> Compleat Meadmaker" by Ken Schramm. The first says to boil the must and
> the 2nd tells how to pasturize the must. However in the 2nd one the author
> goes on to say that he does not use any heat at all when he makes his own
> mead. At the store the guy said to at least pasturize it. Have any of you
> made mead without using heat and did it turn out ok?
There is an ongoing "religious debate" between those that pasteurize and those
that don't... I'm personally on the "minimal chemical" side, and don't use
any sulfites or pasteurizing, and have never had a batch go bad...
That said, the plus side of heating is that it minimizes the risks of getting
spoilage or off tastes from wild yeast fermentations, or bacterial infection.
The down side is that the more you heat honey, the more you destroy the
flavor components, and all the enzymes and other goodies that make honey one
of nature's miracle products and turn it into something closer to sugar
syrup... However it's the "safe" approach, and tends to be popular with
those coming from a strong beer-making background since they are used to
cooking beer worts.
I keep the bees that make the honey I use in my mead, and the only heating I
do is minimal heating with a heat lamp bulb under my extractor when draining
it, or in a water bath if it goes crystal on me and I have to re-liquefy it.
I avoid sulfites because I have asthmatic friends who claim that sulfites give
them attacks, plus I think it gives me headaches - I often get bad headaches
after drinking wines (particularly burgundy, which tends to be high in
sulfites) but not after drinking my meads, including pyments, made w/o
sulfites.
If you don't pasteurize, you keep all the flavors of the honey, and whatever
health benefits it can give (lots of debate on that). I feel that as long as
you are reasonably careful to keep your equipment clean, and pitch a healthy
yeast culture when first starting a brew, there are minimal risks of bad
things happening.
ART
------------------------------
Subject: Filtering
From: "Louis LeBlanc" <brew@fayreforest.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:15:45 -0500 (EST)
Hello everyone!
First off, thank you to everyone who has given information here. I've gotten
lots of very helpful information already from this list.
Now my question: I have a batch of blackberry peach melomel that I think is
just about ready to bottle. The problem is that even after a few rackings I
still have sediment falling out. The fruit was in the form of a puree
purchased at Beer & Wine Hobby here in Woburn. I did put it into the
secondary, but pretty early on. It seemed to kick off a little more
fermentation, but it did calm down after about a week.
I haven't seen any activity in a couple months, but I do still have some
sediment. So, how best to get as much of the mead without catching any more
of the sediment than is strictly necessary? The idea of using a coffee filter
has occurred to me, but I'm not sure if this is either effective or wise. Has
anyone ever tried to put just a little more "cleanup" to a batch like this
before bottling it?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers!
Lou
------------------------------
Subject: residual nutrients
From: dan@geer.org
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:38:58 -0500
I am interested in the uptake of "yeast nutrient"
and "yeast energizer" by the yeast. Assuming that
dead yeast sequester whatever they have taken up,
and assuming that adding just exactly the amount
of these substances that will be so sequestered is
impossible, my question is about the effects of
too much versus too little.
It is easy to imagine the effect of too little
as several books and articles make the case for
adding these substances in the first place by
describing what happens if you do not.
Therefore, the remaining question on the table
is what if there is too much? I suppose it could
precipitate out of solution as the SG falls with
advancing fermentation. Just as easily, I could
suppose that it remains in the finished product
as solute.
In that latter case, viz., it remains in the
finished product as solute, what is its impact
on product quality? That could be, one assumes,
no effect at all at best and something unattractive
at worst. What is that "something unattractive"
and is it sufficiently probable to affect the
decision of how much to add at the outset?
Put differently, and assuming that one can never,
ever get the precise amount needed but must,
instead, have either too little or too much,
is it better to err on the side of too little
or on the side of too much?
Ideally, I want a curve in equation form, but
am happy for intelligence in any format.
Yours,
Dan Geer
Rhode Island
------------------------------
Subject: Re: New Meadmaker
From: mail-box <mail-box@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:48:20 -0500
> I am going to be making my first mead within the next 2 weeks. I will
> get my honey next Monday, Raspberry honey.
> I have 2 questions:
>
> 1) When I was getting my equipment the brew supply store that I used
> had a raspberry flavoring. When would I add this to the mead to inhance
> the raspberry flavor of the mead?
>
> 2) I bought 2 books to read about making mead. The first was "The
> Complete Joy of Home Brewing" by Charlie Papazian and the 2nd was "The
> Compleat Meadmaker" by Ken Schramm. The first says to boil the must and the
> 2nd tells how to pasturize the must. However in the 2nd one the author goes
> on to say that he does not use any heat at all when he makes his own mead.
> At the store the guy said to at least pasturize it. Have any of you made
> mead without using heat and did it turn out ok?
>
> Thanks
> Joe
Joe,
Congratulations! You have been exposed early to a truism of mead
making: Lots of differing opinions and instructions.
My motto is: There are many ways to do it right.
That said, I pasteurized my first batch of mead many years ago but have
since used no heat other than filling the sink with hot water and
setting the honey container in it to warm up, to assist in pouring.
Never a bad batch, and very little chance of ever getting one. Pitch a
healthy starter and little is capable of competing with it.
As to your flavoring, use it if you want to. I would recommend that you
make this batch a varietal (only using the raspberry honey for
flavoring), because rapsberry honey is quite nice. There is nothing
wrong with using a flavoring agent, although I would suggest that
instead of a flavoring agent you might try fresh or frozen raspberries
or at last resort your local brew shop might carry large canned fruit
purees. Add these at any stage you prefer, you'll again hear all sorts
of options and opinions. I make mead like wine, and all the ingredients
go in up front.
Cheers,
Ken Taborek
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1404
*******************************
