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Mead Lovers Digest #1364
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1364, 27 January 2008
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1364 27 January 2008
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1362, 21 January 2008 (Robert Agnew)
Re: you're now irrelevant (MeadGuild@aol.com)
Re: What is it that oxidizes? (MeadGuild@aol.com)
Re: Some Numbers (MeadGuild@aol.com)
RE: Bottling Hydrometer ("Jones, Steve (IT)")
Re: what oxidizes ("Spencer W. Thomas")
Re: Fermenters for small batches (Phil)
RE: competition medals ("The OCurrans")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1362, 21 January 2008
From: Robert Agnew <robert_j_agnew@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:53:59 -0600
In response to Dick's question (below) regarding oxidation, I don't know
about empirical research, but my background in chemistry and brewing would
lead me to believe acid is the answer with respect to fermented beverages
(fresh fruits are microbial spoilage or ethylene gas production not oxygen).
Tannic and malic acids are common in wine, these are softened over time
through micro-oxygenation. When acids are placed in water they disassociate
releasing a positively charged hydrogen ion. Oxygen will dissolve into
water at normal temperatures and pressures (how fish breath). When the
oxygen molecule comes into contact with a hydrogen ion they react to make
a water molecule. Oxygen gets introduced into wine through the cork that
allows minute amounts of oxygen into the bottle as seasonal changes in
temperature in the cellar makes the air trapped in the cork expand and
contract. This is why red wines "soften" with age, the acid level drops.
In beer, the alpha acids from the hops undergo a similar oxygenation (screw
caps don't make an air-tight seal). There can also be some oxidation of
long chain non-fermentable sugars such as lactose and maltodextrin that
partially disassociate into acids (see discussion of gluconic acid in the
next paragraph).
In traditional mead, the reaction is more complex. In a totally dry mead,
the reaction can be similar to wine if supplemental acid blend has been
added. However, most meads have residual sugar including some unfermentable
sugars. Glucose being of particular note. If you have ever tried to make
a titrateable acid measurement of a mead must, or finished mead, you will
find that it is quite difficult to get a good reading as you can seem to
keep adding sodium hydroxide, getting a little purple color, then watching
it clear up again. Glucose forms gluconic acid in water through a mild
disassociation process. However, as you continue to neutralize the acid,
the molecule continues to give up more hydrogen ions (it has 12 of them)
returning the solution to an acidic state. I postulate this is why meads
are know to improve nearly indefinitely with age. The various residual
and non-fermentable sugars can go through very complex organic chemical
reactions and create new flavors as time goes by.
As for melomels, pyments, and the like the oxidation reactions are going to
be a combination of the mead reactions and the wine reactions. Most fruits
contain similar acids to grapes with the addition of citric acid.
With respect to herbs, the aromatic compounds that give them their flavorful
properties are volatile at room temperature. Increasing their surface
area through grinding makes these compounds evaporate more rapidly and the
herbs loose their punch. Store your herbs in sealed containers and grind
right before use. As for your habeneros, the compound that makes them hot
is Capsaicin. Capsaicin is not soluble in water but is soluble in alcohol
(don't reach for the water, reach for tequila next time the peppers are
too hot). Also, low pH will enhance the heat of Capsaicin so so don't
over do it in a mead.
Hope this helps, Robert
>Subject: What is it that oxidizes?>From: MeadGuild@aol.com>Date: Wed,
16 Jan 2008 23:15:11 EST> >What is it that oxidizes?>I keep asking this
question and have yet to get>enough explanations that are consistent
with>each other.>In beer, it must be either the malt or the alcohol.>In
wine, it must be either the grapes or the alcohol.>In Mead, it must be
either the honey or the alcohol.>So I took a liter of vodka and infused it
with>180 seconds of oxygen in a one gallon jug and>let it sit for three
months. I had a friend>taste the oxygenated vodka and a fresh bottle>of
the same vodka. He found no difference.>Was three months long enough? Were
his taste>buds not sensitive enough?>If it's not the alcohol, what is
it?>The only answer I have gotten from surfing the>web is that fruit and
vegetables will oxidize>(spoil). That is consistent with oxidation in>wine
and beer. But honey doesn't oxidize (spoil)!>What about herbs and spices. Do
they oxidize?>I know from experience that Red Savina Habenero>peppers
(one time hottest pepper in the world)>is not as strong five years later
as it was the>day I ground it - is that oxidation?>So is oxidation only a
problem with Melomels,>Braggots, and Open Category Meads?>Does anyone know
of an academic in field of>brewing who can give us an explanation based>on
empirical research?> >Dick>- -->Richard D. Adams, CPA (retired)>Moderator:
misc.taxes.moderated
------------------------------
Subject: Re: you're now irrelevant
From: MeadGuild@aol.com
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 23:55:49 EST
> Ah, what the bread machine did for home baking
> can now be done for home winemaking -- just pour
> all the stuff in one end and wait for the fully
> industrialized product to emerge from the other.
>
> Not cheap, mind you.
>
> See this: _http://personalwinemaking.com/index.aspx_
(http://personalwinemaking.com/index.aspx)
$3,499.00! I'll show this to my childbride and pretend I'm serious.
Maybe that will set her up for a discussion of a 55 gallon drum of
honey. .... maybe ;)
Dick
- --
Richard D. Adams, CPA (retired)
Moderator: misc.taxes.moderated
------------------------------
Subject: Re: What is it that oxidizes?
From: MeadGuild@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:30:18 EST
I thank everyone who responded to my question.
I additionally thank Dick Dunn for getting a response
from an academic researcher.
In e-mail correspondence with Andrew Waterhouse of
UC-Davis, Professor Waterhouse stated that his research
confirmed that alcohol need iron to oxidize. (I presume
iron is a basic trace metal.)
I also found an interesting article on oxidization of wine
by James Goode, Ph.D. at
http://www.medicalfriendsofwine.org/nl2006.pdf
Dick
- ---
Richard D. Adams, CPA (retired)
Moderator: misc.taxes.moderated
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Some Numbers
From: MeadGuild@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 02:02:07 EST
Dennis Myhand _dmyhand@suddenlink.net_ (mailto:dmyhand@suddenlink.net)
asked:
> Which of these decreases in sg numbers would yield the highest amount of
> alcohol content? I hate to put it in such crude terms but I am looking
> for "kick" as well as taste. Also, which yeast would you use for a dry
> Mead?
>> dan@geer.org gave us.
>> yeast SG decrease
>> ------------------------------------
>> EC-1118 0.102
>> 71B-1122 0.100
>> K1-V1116 0.095
>> D47 0.088
>> WLP720 0.085
>> Montrachet 0.079
>> --------------------------------
Since ABV is directly related to the decrease in specific gravity,
the simple answer is EC-1118. However, the difference between
a 0.102 decrease and a 0.095 decrease is less then 1% ABV in
a high octane Mead (~14% ABV).
IIRC those numbers came from a standard batch size as in the
same amount of honey in each batch. Add more honey and the
numbers will most likely change since the alcohol toxicity levels
of the yeasts are different. Ken Schramm posted here in the
last few months that in his experience the alcohol toxicity level
of 71B-1122 is 14% and 14.5% ABV. In my experience, the
alcohol toxicity level of EC-1118 is over 17%, but I have never
sent a Mead to a lab to have the ABV measured.
There are other characteristics that need to be considered when
choosing a yeast, e.g., fermentation temperature, desired and
undesired yeast by-products, etc.
Dick
- --
Richard D. Adams, CPA (retired)
Moderator: misc.taxes.moderated
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Bottling Hydrometer
From: "Jones, Steve (IT)" <stjones@eastman.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:55:06 -0500
Grape and Granary has one that goes from .980 to 1.020.
http://www.thegrape.net/browse.cfm/4,8198.htm
Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN
Member: State of Franklin Homebrewers <http://www.franklinbrew.org/>
Member: American Homebrew Association
<http://www.beertown.org/homebrewing>
Member: Beer Judge Certification Program <http://www.bjcp.org/>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: what oxidizes
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd@spencerwthomas.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:24:23 -0500
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the various yeast by-products (esters
and the like). It's been a long time since I took OChem, but I'm pretty
sure that these can oxidize, and that some of them will oxidize into
unpleasant flavors. Are there any chemists out there who can
confirm/refute my hypothesis?
=Spencer in Ann Arbor
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Fermenters for small batches
From: Phil <dogglebe@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 07:40:25 -0800 (PST)
Whenever I make a mead, I fill my carboy within two or three inches of
the stopper. Unless I add fruit, or something else, it never foams tht much.
If you a gallon of mead, at the end, you should start by making five quarts,
as you'll lose that much through repeated rackings.
Phil
> I'm getting ready to make a few small (~1 gal)
> batches, and was wondering
> about the fermenter. I think that something around
> 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 gallons
> should provide some headroom for foaming, and some
> space in the bottom for
> the spent yeast.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: competition medals
From: "The OCurrans" <OCurrans@cfl.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:03:03 -0500
Vicky & Dick wrote:
>>Dick Dunn said.....
>
>Ummm...'scuse me, but why is this a good thing?
>
>Sure, I suppose it's nice to have a medal to hang on the wall...but
>really, isn't the status or prestige of a medal inversely proportional
>to how many were awarded?
>- --
>Thanks Dick, I was over here biting my tongue. That has always been my
>problem with the some competitions that take mead (Winemaker does this),
>that they give medals to over 50% of the competitiors. Seems to me that
>getting one of 3 medals in your category with 50 entrants is *way* better
>than getting one of 50 medals in a field of 100......
I am sorry you both feel this way! We do not just "Hand Out" medals,
nor do we award them by score - as in professional competitions. We still
AWARD 1st, 2nd and 3rd place for each category!!! After listening to the
comments from meadmakers, we expanded the "Other Fruit Melomel" category to
include medal categories for Dry, Semi-Sweet and Sweet (because this has
been our largest category for a number of years.) Last year, and this year,
we offered a category for "Historical" meads. This was offered, because I
know some SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) folks that feel they don't
get a fair judging at traditional mead competitions.
We are not in this as a money-making event for our club - although,
last year we made just over $9.00. I keep hearing negative comments from
some of the forums, BUT, when I hear from a meadmakers that say they only
make dry melomels, and never win a medal, because it appears only sweet
meads win in other contests, I think it is a shame. We have been around
longer than any existing competition, and we take pride in that fact, as
well as the way we train judges. We have tried to accommodate the little
meadmaker, because we realize that mead is different than beer or wine, mead
competitions are different than beer competitions or wine competitions, and
meadmakers are different than beer or wine makers.
If we are wrong, I would like to hear about it. And if this is what
the larger meadmaking community wants, we can be like everyone else and just
award 9 medals (and possibly make some money).
BTW, you are both welcome to come to Meadllennium 2009 to be judges.
Howard Curran
Organizer - Meadllennium 2008
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1364
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