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Mead Lovers Digest #1415
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1415, 30 March 2009
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1415 30 March 2009
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
FW: And the winner is........... ("Michael Zahl")
ABV? ("Richard T. Perry")
Re: A question on max alcohol in meads. (Chris Yate)
Re: A question on max alcohol in meads. (MeadGuild@aol.com)
Re: Easier solution to your solution problem...brix by brix (mail-box)
Re: A question on max alcohol in meads. (mail-box)
Mead Free or Die (Michael Fairbrother)
Re: A question on max alcohol in meads. (Michael Fairbrother)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1414, 24 March 2009 (Matt Falenski)
Re: Refractometers for alcohol (docmac9582@aol.com)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1414, 24 March 2009 ("Dennis Key")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
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Subject: FW: And the winner is...........
From: "Michael Zahl" <mzahl@cox.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 12:15:54 -0700
H ere are the results from the SNAFU Winterfest 2009 BJCP Competition which
I entered!
http://www.nevadabrew.com/twiki/bin/view/Competitions/Winterfest09Results
Out of 12 entries, I had 7 in the three mead categories:
I took:
First and second in the Traditional Mead Category
Second in the Fruit Mead Category
First and Second in the Other Mead category
First and Third BEST OF SHOW MEAD!
In order to qualify for first, second or third, each of the two judges had
to give the beer or mead 30, 25, and 20 points respectively.
Total Scores (two judges) were:
Dagda's Vanilla Mead 47 Points
Raspberry Mead 59 Points
Dagda's Pumpkin Pie 64 Points Second Place
Blackberry Mead 68 Points Second Place
Golden Goddess Mead 74 Points Second Place
Pumpkin Honey Mead 78 Points First Place
THIRD PLACE BEST OF SHOW MEAD!!!
Dagda's Maple Mead 83 Points First Place Open Mead
FIRST PLACE BEST OF SHOW MEAD!!!
Best of Show (Mead)
First Michael D. Zahl, Open Category Mead
Second Scott Alfter, Pyment
Third Michael D. Zahl, Sweet Mead
Only the first place finishers in each category go to the Best in show
round. But the judges do not rescore, they simply decide which mead or beer
best fits the category it is entered into.
I am extremely proud of how my meads did. I knew that the Vanilla was the
weakest leak, and probably that my Golden Goddess, Pumpkin and Maple were my
three favorites. I was a little disappointed in the Raspberry's showing,
but overall I scored about where I felt everyone would.
SO I wait until April 10th for the SNAFU meeting to collect the awards!
And.. I feel I have officially earned my Brew Master rank!
WASSAIL!
------------------------------
Subject: ABV?
From: "Richard T. Perry" <perryrt@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:21:02 -0400
> First of all, not to be trite, but who cares? I never understood the
> preoccupation with HAVING to know exactly what the alcohol content
> is...unless, of course you are a commercial meadery/brewery. If you've
> followed your recipe and the outcome is that you've made a great tasting
> mead...who really cares how much alcohol is in it. As Charlie likes to say,
> "Relax...have a homebrew!"
>
I agree in general.
However, don't some states only allow homebrew up to a certain %
alcohol content? (hence the OP's first and third questions,
I'm guessing.)
Mind you - I've yet to meet the homebrew police, but ya never know.
Regards,
Richard T. Perry
perryrt@hotmail.com
"Fraser, there's a guy on my corner who asks me every morning if I've
seen God; do you really think he expects me to point Him out?"
"Well, you know, Ray, if you did, perhaps he'd stop asking."
Ray Vecchio and Benton Fraser, "Hawk and a Handsaw", Due_South
------------------------------
Subject: Re: A question on max alcohol in meads.
From: Chris Yate <chrisyate@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:34:44 +0000
> First: What is the maximum ABV that one can get from brewing mead?
If you used a 'turbo' yeast you might get about 20-25%
> Second question: Does the ABV of a bottled mead increase significantly over
time (say 10 to 20 years)?
No.
> During our conversations she told me that her meads get over 25% ABV, and
> some of her 20 year old meads are 30-40% ABV. I find this insanely
> difficult to believe, considering I always thought you had to distill in
> order to get over 24%.
Sounds like she has been a bit misled by someone. Yeast just won't
tolerate ABV over 20% or so, and only specially selected yeasts at
that.
I'm sure her mead improves with age but they won't get that much
stronger. Think about it; they're sealed in a bottle, right? All that
fermentation would create a heck of a lot of gas. Boom!
Chris
------------------------------
Subject: Re: A question on max alcohol in meads.
From: MeadGuild@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:37:05 EDT
"Michael Zahl" _mzahl@cox.net_ (mailto:mzahl@cox.net) asked:
> First: What is the maximum ABV that one can get from brewing mead?
It depends on how long you can keep your yeast alive. There is
yeast with a reported alcohol toxicity level of 24%. To me,
that means 21 to 27%. But it is possible to achieve a higher ABV.
> Second question: Does the ABV of a bottled mead increase
> significantly over time (say 10 to 20 years)?
10 to 20 years, no,
ABV only increases when yeast convert sugar into alcohol. That
conversion has a byproduct of CO2 which, if not vented, will create
bottle bombs.
> Third question: What is the best way to determine the homebrew
> laws in your state? (Nevada here)
See: _http://beertown.org/statutes/nevada.htm_
(http://beertown.org/statutes/nevada.htm)
Dick
- --
Richard D. Adams, CPA (retired)
Moderator: misc.taxes.moderated
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Easier solution to your solution problem...brix by brix
From: mail-box <mail-box@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:27:39 -0400
> Subject: Easier solution to your solution problem...brix by brix
> From: "Butcher, Steven" <Steven.Butcher@fpl.com>
> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:01:52 -0400
>
>
>> snip "Louis LeBlanc expressed confusion about measuring alcoholic content
>>
> of his mead."<
>
> First of all, not to be trite, but who cares? I never understood the
> preoccupation with HAVING to know exactly what the alcohol content
> is...unless, of course you are a commercial meadery/brewery. If you've
> followed your recipe and the outcome is that you've made a great tasting
> mead...who really cares how much alcohol is in it. As Charlie likes to say,
> "Relax...have a homebrew!"
Wow, perhaps you should take your own advice, and relax a bit. Who
cares, you ask? The OP did, or he wouldn't have asked the question of
this digest. Why get on a high horse about someone else's preferences
in brewing practice of a beverage you'll most likely never share with them?
Plenty of people, myself included, are very happy to make their mead in
a very relaxed manner and not have to worry about a lot of fiddly
details. But plenty of people, myself included, understand that digging
into the esoterica of the hobby is both an intellectual exercise and a
possible means to improve and better enjoy their hobby. And more power
to them all no matter where they fall in the spectrum, or if they like
to roam around it freely. As I like to say: There are many ways to do
it right.
Cheers,
Ken Taborek
------------------------------
Subject: Re: A question on max alcohol in meads.
From: mail-box <mail-box@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:08:45 -0400
> Subject: A question on max alcohol in meads.
> From: "Michael Zahl" <mzahl@cox.net>
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 08:38:44 -0700
>
> Good morning everyone.. Simple questions with story background...
>
> First: What is the maximum ABV that one can get from brewing mead?
No real idea, because I prefer both a balanced mead and I don't care for
overly sweet meads. The higher the alcohol content the more residual
sugar is needed to balance it, and so my highest ABV was in the area of 15%.
> Second question: Does the ABV of a bottled mead increase significantly over
> time (say 10 to 20 years)?
No. A mead can restart fermentation after bottling, but this is not
likely to produce a significant drop in gravity, and it may well cause
bottle bombs.
> Third question: What is the best way to determine the homebrew laws in your
> state? (Nevada here) I have gotten a variety of answers both online and
> from homebrewers who are lawyers or associated therewith.
Read here, and then consult the laws of your state, if you live in the
USA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrewing
Otherwise, consult the laws of your country of residence. (I kinda
assume from the @cox.net email address that you're in the USA, but to be
pedantic...)
[snippage]
> During our conversations she told me that her meads get over 25% ABV, and
> some of her 20 year old meads are 30-40% ABV. I find this insanely
> difficult to believe, considering I always thought you had to distill in
> order to get over 24%. She swears she does not distill. She could also not
> explain how she got those figures and or how the brews aged up in ABV over
> time. She is a naturalist, uses no chemicals, pre boils her musts (where
> she also adds tea and citrus for tannin and acid, and warms the must up
> again before bottling to kill of the yeasties.
She may make excellent mead, but she seems to be lacking in a lot of
fundamental understanding of science side of the hobby. Or she is
pulling your leg. Her figures are not plausible at all, especially
those for the older meads, if age was even a factor which it is not. I
didn't even get a 40% ABV in the sherry style mead where I added Everclear.
> SHe also says she has an ongoing yeast batch, that she draws from and adds
> to over time, she said "like a sourdough yeast." Anyone have thoughts on
> that? Would an "aged yeast strain" possibly produce a higher ABV?
If she can keep it free from contamination and mutation, more power to
her. If she just prefers this practice, more power to her. For myself,
a $0.90 package of wine yeast and an active yeast starter is a cheap
insurance policy against the $30-50 dollars my must costs. And
"sourdough" does not evoke a good mead yeast, at all. Unless you're
making a plambic style, perhaps.
To answer the specific question, it could possibly have built up a
slightly higher tolerance, I think. It could also have drifted to a
lower alcohol tolerance, or have been weakened by a lack of nutrients
(I'll assume she doesn't use nutrients by her aversion to "chemicals",
but I'll note that H2O is a chemical). But not enough higher to support
her numbers at all.
As a point of comparison, the Sam Adams Utopia beer is 25% ABV and holds
the Guinness records for high ABV beers. Malted barley has a huge
amount of nutrients yeast love and which honey lacks, and this beer is
made by a professional brewery using a lot of special techniques and
which does not limit themselves to the approach your "naturalist" friend
probably limits herself to.
> I also sampled some of her stuff, which three or four of my group raved
> over, and while I enjoyed her brews, I wasn't impressed. All of her stuff
> is UBER sweet. Mine you can taste the alcohol, much like you can taste it in
> a wine. I enjoy both sweet and dry meads (and beers and wines), but most of
> our pagan/ ren faire friends tend to have limited pallets and gravitate
> toward the sweet ones. I could also not taste ANY alcohol, though I know it
> was there.
Ask her if you can have a bottle of her mead in swap for one of yours.
Try to make sure it's one she has a recipe for, and from written notes
if she takes them, not from memory. You might have to estimate the OG,
but you can get close enough if she took good notes. Take a hydrometer
reading of the mead and compare that to her initial volume and initial
fermentables. Use the hydrometer to figure the ABV (OG's potential
alcohol minus FGs potential alcohol = alcohol level). Then you'll
probably have a better idea than she of the ABV of her mead. Be gentle
about breaking the news to her if at all, or she might not share any
more mead with you. :-P
> On a side note, I did enter seven of my meads into the SNAFU (Souther Nevada
> Ale Fermenters Union) BJCP competition to be held March 21st. It's my first
> time to have my brews "professionally" judged. I'm hoping to get at least
> fives scores in the 30's (50 point scale) and maybe a 40 or two! Wish me
> luck!
Good luck!
Cheers,
Ken Taborek
------------------------------
Subject: Mead Free or Die
From: Michael Fairbrother <fairbrother@nhbrewers.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:11:31 -0400
Grand prize for club of the year, is a 660lbs of honey... thanks to the
great folks at Black Cat Honey in Winchester NH. The club that wins the
grand prize needs to pick up the prize in Winchester NH. We have an
amazing amount of prizes donated, and have professional and BJCP judges
signed up to judge. Please see: www.meadfreeordie.com
We will be issuing awards (custom etched lazer maple woods), for 1st,
2nd, 3rd for all 9 mead subcategories and for Best of Show.
Also for clubs thinking about 2010... we will have another 660lbs of
honey for club of the year.
Mead Free or Die, Don't Tread On Mead
Michael Fairbrother
President Brew Free or Die
Organizer Mead Free or Die
------------------------------
Subject: Re: A question on max alcohol in meads.
From: Michael Fairbrother <fairbrother@nhbrewers.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:11:42 -0400
Michael,
I would trust your knowledge on mead making and the process. A mead at
23% or 24% requires a fair amount of skill to make, and no way will it
get to 30-40% on it's own. Think about beer making, Utopias, World Wide
Imperial Stout, both those come close to this 23% maximum.
The alcohol content can be estimated, at it's most simple, by taking 2
SG readings - The first is the Original Gravity (i.e. just after the
addition of sugar), and the second is at bottling. The difference in
these 2 readings represents the total drop in SG, and therefore the
total amount of sugar converted to alcohol. For example an Original
Gravity of 1100, and an SG at bottling of 1000 (implying that all sugar
has gone) yields an % ABV of 13.6%
Typically, however, the final SG can be either side of 1000, if the
fermentation has ended at 1005, this would represent a sweeter wine that
one which ends at an SG of 1000, or even 995. The lower the final SG,
the less residual sugars are present, and therefore the dryer the wine.
SG readings of below 1000 are common, and this is due to a technicality
- - alcohol being less dense than water, which affects the reading that a
hydrometer will take.
The mathematics involved in the simple calculation are: Take the
difference in Original Gravity and final SG, and divide this by the
magic number of 7.36
Given that, take what would be a very sweet meed, 1.170 finishes at
1.100 (very dry), and you get 23%, it would take a mead at 1.230 OG and
a FG of 1.000 to get in the 30%... so like I was saying it's just not
possible. The yeast will die out long before it makes it, and getting a
in the 100 - 120 point drop is quite a bit of work.
Good luck in you first competition... think about entering Mead Free or
Die, being held on April 25th, see www.meadfreeordie.com
Which has a 55 gallon (660lbs) of honey as grand prize for club of the
year. Additionally we commitment for another barrel for next years
competition.
Michael Fairbrother
Mead Free or Die Organizer
Don't Tread On Mead
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1414, 24 March 2009
From: Matt Falenski <mfalenski@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
Reply to Jim Toomey?s Mead Question:
I can?t really elaborate on the older practices as I've only been making
mead for about 2 years...
Yeast is happier with a must that?s less acidic (around pH 3.7-4.2) and
can stop fermenting if the pH is too low. People have recommended using
Cream of Tarter (Potassium bitartrate) to buffer the must to help the pH
from dropping too much during fermentation. Use 1 tsp / gallon. But I've
never needed to use it so I can?t really comment on it. However spoilage
bacteria don't like low pH and a low pH also helps with stability and
ageing. Adding acid can also give mead little extra zip if the sweetness is
too much or the taste is too plain. I wait until fermenting is done to add
any acid if it?s needed. I usually add a tsp at a time and taste after
each addition. Usually 3 or 4 tsp in 5-6 gallons is good in my opinion.
For 5 gallons, you?re looking at about 11# of honey (give or take
depending on variety) for 22 Brix.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Refractometers for alcohol
From: docmac9582@aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:15:07 -0400
Refractometers Do Not Measure Alcohol
Steve Butcher suggests that the EXACT alcohol content in (beer/wine/mead) is
not particularly important unless you are being regulated by the government,
and I agree. The taste and balance is much more important. I have had
highly alcoholic beers in which I could not taste the alcohol because
of the excellent balance of hops and malt, and also less alcoholic beers
that tasted unbalance and alcoholic. Similarly, some meads taste hot and
alcoholic when young but mellow with age such that the alcohol is not tasted.
That being said, Steve suggested that if you really wanted to know the
alcoholic content, buy a $5000 refractometer ? in which I disagree.
First, for the home brewer, there are quite adequate refractometers in
the $75 to $300 region with and without automatic temperature compensation
(as opposed to looking up the correction on a chart). The refractometers
use only a couple of drops of solution and take less time than adjusting
the temperature of a sample for hydrometer readings of specific gravity
and give precise (repeatable), if not accurate (true value), results.
Refractometers do not measure alcohol and the refractive index of the
solution is affected by total dissolved solids (including proteins) in a
similar mannor as a hydrometer. In fact, the expensive refractometer he
suggested does not even have an alcohol readout, only brix, inverted sugar
and high fructose corn syrup. Both i nitial and final readings from high
gravity worts are especially prone to errors, both with refractometers
and hydrometers, because of the higher level of non-sugar components.
Most methods for ?true alcohol? content first distill to get
rid of dissolved solids interferences ? but even these methods have
possibilities of carryover (depending on the number of theoretical plates
in the distillation equipment) and the problem of the 5% water in alcohol
azeotrope. From an analytical point of view, gas chromatography with
flame ionization (or multiple detectors) and using an internal standard
such as n-propanol or isopropanol along with calibration samples would
be the routine method of choice to determine ethanol in a laboratory.
Depending on the sample, there might be need for filtration, centrifugation,
or even solvent exchange preparation. After running multiple 20-laboratory
method validation studies for the EPA, I can tell you that even with this
sophisticated testing in high quality laboratories, the results will vary
from lab to lab. So use your hydrometer or inexpensive refractometer for
reasonable estimates of alcohol and enjoy your product.
Carl McMillin
Brecksville, OH
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1414, 24 March 2009
From: "Dennis Key" <dione13@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:48:27 -0600
> Subject: Mead Question
> From: "Toomey" <2me1@roadrunner.com>
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 17:51:04 -0400
>
> Hello
>
> Would you elaborate on your comment? 'There is a discrepancy between older
> practice in meadmaking, which tends to advise adding acid at the start, and
> newer practice, which suggests that it be added after fermentation to avoid
> problems from too-low pH. This document is in review/revision on this
> point'.
Somewhere in the archives of this digest (I think, but could be wrong) is a
post discussing the fact that a must will ferment fastest at a pH in the
immediate vicinity of 4. As honey is acidic, the pH of many musts at the
beginning is between 2 and 3. Adding calcium carbonate (available at your
brewstore) will bring the pH up to the desired level.
In Duncan and Acton's Making Mead, they observe that it takes upward of a
year to complete fermentation. I believe this may be true if you leave the
Ph so low. I found my fermentations were pretty well complete in 2-3 months
with an adjusted pH.
Waissel!
Dione Greywolfe
Dragonweyr, NM
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1415
*******************************
