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Mead Lovers Digest #1314
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1314, 14 April 2007
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1314 14 April 2007
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Need a sweeter yeast than 71B-2112 (Dick Dunn)
Re: Stopping fermentation (Dick Adams)
RE: autolysis off-flavor ("Jeff Tollefson")
Berry types for mead? (Arthur Torrey)
RE: autolysis off-flavor (Mail Box)
Potassium Sorbate ("Robert Farrell")
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Subject: Re: Need a sweeter yeast than 71B-2112
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:41:18 -0600
"Jeff Tollefson" <jtollefson245@hotmail.com> wrote in the last digest:
...
> 71B goes to 18%. If your mead is not currently at 18%, then adding sugar
> and/or water will start up the fermentation again and will just result in a
> higher alcohol level, but won't sweeten it...
...
> 71B is a yeast I've had trouble with. For the longest time it was posted on
> Lalvin's site that the tolerance of it was 14%. This was not true and
> resulted in some funky batches. Long story short, I've had to deal with your
> situation alot. I've also had this problem with K1V-1116. The moral of the
> story is, when it comes to yeast, take anything you read with a grain of
> salt.
I'll sure agree with the last sentence wrt the supposed "alcohol tolerance"
number for a yeast. Other info is generally better. The trouble with
alcohol tolerance numbers, the reason they're iffy, is that various
factors can push it a percent or so off-center either way--and that is
assuming that the published number is reasonably correct to start with
(that is, beyond the inaccuracy Jeff was talking about). A few factors
that come to mind right away are nutrient level, fermentation temperature,
and age of the yeast (even if it's within its label date).
Worse, you can't even necessarily say, reliably, "Well, strain <X> is
more alcohol-tolerant than <Y> . . . because it may be that <X> is also
more sensitive to lack of nutrient, so that at low nutrient levels <X>
becomes less tolerant.
Oh, and a side note for brewers becoming meadmakers, on the matter of yeast
characteristics: the "attenuation" figures commonly seen for brewing
yeasts aren't relevant to mead, because (to a good approximation) all the
sugars in mead are completely fermentable.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Stopping fermentation
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:51:21 -0400 (EDT)
canwebowlnow@aol.com wrote:
> Here's my issue on this though. Is there a way to get the
> same result without the sulfites. I'm allergic!!
Yes. Siphon the yeast into a kettle and raise the temperature
to 158F (70C) and keep it above 153.5F (67.5C) for 25 minutes.
The textbook answer is 140F (60C) for 20 minutes. But higher
and longer is my way of making sure dead is dead.
You need to run a wort chiller to get the temperature down AQAP.
the siphon it in to a carboy, keg or bottles. Dead yeast don't
ferment!
My next research project is to determine some minimal secondary
fermentation time required before heating to kill the yeast. If
it can be done without flavor losses, heating to kill the yeast
at an FG of 1.015 to 1.02 sounds great to me. The plan would
then be to bottle it and hide it so it ages for a year.
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: RE: autolysis off-flavor
From: "Jeff Tollefson" <jtollefson245@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:24:14 -0700
>Subject: autolysis off-flavor
>From: Michael Hetzel <hetzelnc@yahoo.com>
>Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 13:35:14 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Recently I made a batch of mead (3 lbs wildflower honey/gal, Lavlin D47
>yeast) and essentially forgot about it. When I finally got around to
>racking it off the primary (after 10 weeks!), I was not at all
>surprised that it had autolysis off flavors. Its not too bad, just
>mildly 'bready'. Also tastes somewhat cidery and pretty alcoholic.. the
>Got Mead Calculator tells me its about 17% abv.
>
>Anyway I'm guessing that this has happened to others, and I'm wondering
>what these folks may have tried to feature or mask the bready/yeast
>flavor - right now I'm thinking of dumping a bunch of raisins into the
>secondary. Also will the (autolysis) flavor diminish over time?
>
>Thanks,
>Mike Hetzel
I've noticed there is usually a bread-like, yeasty flavor for a brief time
with my meads (clear or not) but then is completely gone after a few months
of aging. It seems to be a part of the natural fermentation process.
Don't do anything to the mead. Just let it age and see what happens. I've
let a dry mead age on the lees for 3 months before racking and was surprised
to find there were no off flavors.
Another thing to consider is that some people intentionaly cause some
autolysis to add complexity.
------------------------------
Subject: Berry types for mead?
From: Arthur Torrey <arthur_torrey@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 23:29:39 -0400
I've recently cleared some areas of our yard that used to be full of brush,
and am considering growing some kind of berries that would be good for making
mead with, as well as providing additional forage for my bees (I also make
the honey I put in my meads...)
Our neighbor already grows raspberries and blackberries which she allows us to
harvest in enough quantity for a batch or two each year. This is enough for
my needs, so I'd be more interested in expanding the numbers of things being
grown so that I can make more different kinds of mead.
I have used commercial grocery store strawberries in the past, and found they
weren't all that great for doing meads - Nothing "wrong" with them, just not
that interesting, so I'm not sure that strawberries would be worth the
effort. (Could be persuaded otherwise)
I've got one catalog from "Nourse Farms" who seem to have a good reputation as
suppliers of berry plants.
Stuff that looks interesting include Elderberries - How are they for mead?
All I know about them is that Elton John sings high praise for the wine ;-}
I'd also be interested in currants, but the Nourse catalog says that Mass. has
restrictions on planting currants and gooseberries - does anyone know the
details on this? How do currants or gooseberries do for meads?
I'm assuming zone 5 for planting things the maps show me sort of on the border
between 5 and 6, so I'm assuming that going for zone 5 stuff is safer...
Any other suggestions as to interesting plants to make meads with? Especially
particular strains of plants?
How about reccomended (or not) suppliers for plants?
Thanks
ART
------------------------------
Subject: RE: autolysis off-flavor
From: Mail Box <mail-box@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 05:49:42 -0400
> Recently I made a batch of mead (3 lbs wildflower honey/gal, Lavlin D47
> yeast) and essentially forgot about it. When I finally got around to
> racking it off the primary (after 10 weeks!), I was not at all
> surprised that it had autolysis off flavors. Its not too bad, just
> mildly 'bready'. Also tastes somewhat cidery and pretty alcoholic.. the
> Got Mead Calculator tells me its about 17% abv.
>
> Anyway I'm guessing that this has happened to others, and I'm wondering
> what these folks may have tried to feature or mask the bready/yeast
> flavor - right now I'm thinking of dumping a bunch of raisins into the
> secondary. Also will the (autolysis) flavor diminish over time?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Hetzel
I'd be stunned if you had autolysis flavors after only 10 weeks. I
suspect that you're tasting yeast in suspention, and time will see these
drop out. So yes, the flavor will diminish over time. Rack again in 3
or 6 months and taste it then. The flavor should be much improved, if
the high alcohol content allows for a decent flavor profile.
Cheers,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Potassium Sorbate
From: "Robert Farrell" <bfarrell100@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:44:19 -0700
>Subject: Re: Need a sweeter yeast than 71B-2112
>From: "Jeff Tollefson" <jtollefson245@hotmail.com>
>Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 18:51:37 -0700
>
> >Subject: Re: Need a sweeter yeast than 71B-2112
> >From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
> >Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 18:13:53 -0500 (EST)
>71B goes to 18%. If your mead is not currently at 18%, then adding sugar
>and/or water will start up the fermentation again and will just result in a
>higher alcohol level, but won't sweeten it. You will need to sorbate and
>sulfite it to stabilize it first. To do this, rack on to 1 tbs potassium
>sorbate and 1 crushed campden tablet per gallon, then let it sit for a few
>days before back sweetening with honey, juice or whatever you want.
Is "1 tbs" of potassium sorbate/gallon meant to be 1 teaspoon or 1
tablespoon? Ken Schramm recommends 1/2 teaspoon/gallon in his book (page
69). My homebrew shop suggests 3/4 teaspoon/gallon. A tablespoon is 4-6
times more than these two guidelines. Is one tablespoon/gallon excessive?
Does it leave a residual taste?
Bob Farrell
Portland, OR
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End of Mead Lover's Digest #1314
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