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Mead Lovers Digest #1308
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1308, 3 March 2007
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1308 3 March 2007
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Flavor characteristics of single pollenator honeys? (Dick Adams)
Re: Flavor characteristics of single pollenator honeys? (Michael Fairbrother)
Re: DIAMMONIUM PHOSPHATE & UREA vs AMMONIUM PHOSPHATE (Dick Adams)
repitching on lees (Michael Hetzel)
Yeast slow startup / yeast recovery (=?iso-8859-1?q?Omar=20Hern=E1ndez=20R...)
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Subject: Re: Flavor characteristics of single pollenator honeys?
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:04:19 -0500 (EST)
> I'm looking for information on the flavor characteristics of different
> types of honeys.
>
> The local beer/wine shop I go to sells several types of honeys, but
> doesn't have descriptions of what I might expect out of them.
>
> Of particular interest are blackberry, starthistle, buckwheat,
> watermelon and raspberry. They have orange blossom too, but I've had
> that before since that seems to be the common one other than clover out
> here in California.
I can answer a few.
Orange Blossom is common where you have orange groves
and is considered a premium honey.
Buckwheat has a dark brown, not very sweet honey with a very
strong buckwheat aroma and taste.
Raspberry honey is the finest honey I have ever had. It is a light
yellow, sweet honey with a perfume like fragrance.
I've tasted a Blackbeery Mead, but not the honey itself. It
had a mild aroma of fruit, but someone had to tell me it was
Blackberry.
Many honeys do not taste like their source.
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Flavor characteristics of single pollenator honeys?
From: Michael Fairbrother <fairbrother@moonlightmeadery.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:28:21 -0500
Robert,
I am actively working on a project to provide information of this kind.
I have collected dozens of varietal honey from across the country. All
of which are being fermented in the same conditions, same yeast, and
recipe. My goal is to have this information published. Currently all
the honey has either been fermented, or is now being fermented. The
next step to get some highly qualified mead judges to evaluate the
meads. I am thinking of possibly doing this at the AHA convention in
Denver. Thinking of either 6 groups of judges evaluating 4 meads each.
I haven't tried watermelon honey, so I can't speak to that one.
Buckwheat is very pungent, and I am not sure I care for it on it's own.
It's very dark, has a hay/barnyard type character in the aroma, the
flavor is almost like molasses. The others, blackberry, star thistle,
and raspberry are all very enjoyable in meads. I really try to avoid
heating up the honey as it tends to drive off the aromatics that you
want from a single source honey.
Michael Fairbrother
> Subject:
> From: Robert Marshall <robertjm@hockeyhockeyhockey.com>
> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 13:46:58 -0800
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for information on the flavor characteristics of different
> types of honeys.
>
> The local beer/wine shop I go to sells several types of honeys, but
> doesn't have descriptions of what I might expect out of them.
>
> Of particular interest are blackberry, starthistle, buckwheat,
> watermelon and raspberry. They have orange blossom too, but I've had
> that before since that seems to be the common one other than clover out
> here in California.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Robert
>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: DIAMMONIUM PHOSPHATE & UREA vs AMMONIUM PHOSPHATE
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:31:51 -0500 (EST)
> Could someone explain the advantages of using DIAMMONIUM PHOSPHATE & UREA,
> a yeast nutrient product of JD Carlson versus using AMMONIUM PHOSPHATE
> for a yeast nutrient when making mead.
I've been looking into a same question using different terms:
Should I be using Fermax or Fermaid K with Go-Ferm?
There is also Servomyces Yeast Nutrient from White Labs. But,
I have yet to learn its ingredients.
Fermax is a JD Carlson product. www.listermann.com/Store/Details.asp?ID=1146
indicates Fermax contains food-grade urea and ammonium phosphate.
www.undergrounddigital.com/beeradditives.htm indicates Fermax contains
diammonium phosphate, dipotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate, and
autolyzed yeast - ommitting food-grade urea. Somewhere I read that
Fermax no longer contains urea which should not be used when making
Mead. So a valid question is 'What are the ingredients in Fermax?"
Details on Fermaid K with Go-Ferm are at the end of this post.
Read them at your own risk. :)
What about Ammonium Phosphate?
I have never used it. My recollection is that ammonium phosphate
leaves a stronger taste in a mead than does diammonium phosphate
and it requires longer aging to vet that taste.
I have been using Fermax for the last four plus years without
any problems. My current supply is below the 1 lb level and
am planning to use Fermaid K with Go-Ferm on several batches
to see if there is a noticable improvement.
Compared to Fermax, Fermaid K with Go-Ferm is very expensive so
I hope it does result in a noticable improvement
Dick
================================================================
Fermaid K with Go-Ferm
- ----------------------
http://www.scottlaboratories.com/products/fermentation/nutrients.asp
Fermaid K is a blended complex yeast nutrient that supplies ammonia
salts (DAP), alpha amino nitrogen (derived from yeast extract),
sterols, unsaturated fatty acids, key nutrients (magnesium sulfate,
thiamin, folic acid, niacin, biotin, calcium pantothenate) and
inactive yeast. For best results, Fermaid K should be used in
conjunction with GO-FERM to assure proper nutrition of cultured
yeast from rehydration through completed fermentation. Fermaid K
should be hydrated before adding to an active fermentation to avoid
CO2 release and overflowing of tanks or barrels. At one-third sugar
depletion:
* Nitrogen is needed for protein synthesis and to maintain cellular
growth. Nitrogen from the alpha amino acids contained in Fermaid K is
utilized much more efficiently than from the ammonia salts.
* Fermaid K provides unsaturated fatty acids and sterols. These are
important survival factors needed to maintain alcohol resistance and
permease activity. They also help keep volatile acidity levels low.
* The cell wall fractions in Fermaid K absorb medium chain fatty
acids that are toxic to the yeast. They also provide nucleation sites
to help keep the yeast in suspension.
Note: Due to high nutrient requirements, some yeast strains may require
extra feeding at two-thirds sugar depletion (i.e. CY3079, BM45).
Go-Ferm:
A well-known and easily corrected cause of sluggish and stuck
fermentations is nitrogen deficiency in must. While researchers have
determined that there are several key micronutrients for healthy yeast
growth and survival, many winemakers still only think of the importance of
nitrogen. Research by Lallemand, in collaboration with other institutes,
led to the development of GO-FERM. GO-FERM is a natural yeast nutrient
containing a balance of micronutrients. It was developed specifically to
prevent the problems of sluggish or stuck fermentations.
Suspend GO-FERM in the rehydration water before adding the selected
active dried yeast culture. The yeast soaks up the valuable
bio-available micronutrients as they rehydrate. Infusing yeast with
these essential nutrients arms them against ethanol toxicity and
optimizes nutrient availability to the rehydrating yeast culture.
The result is fermentations that finish stronger. GO-FERM is
particularly effective for helping the yeast survive the
fermentation of high sugar musts. If these micronutrients were
added directly to the must, competitive microorganisms would use
a significant amount of them and others would be chelated by
polyphenols or inactivated by SO2 . Using nutrients that contain
ammonia salts (such as DAP, Fermaid K, Yeastex, Superfood) during
rehydration can be toxic to the yeast.
------------------------------
Subject: repitching on lees
From: Michael Hetzel <hetzelnc@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:57:17 -0800 (PST)
Does anyone pitch a must onto the lees from a previous batch? I've
recently made the investment of buying honey in bulk, and since I'll be
making pretty much the same basic meads (and add the adjuncts in
secondary) I figure it might be worth investigating.
One concern I have that suggests its not a good idea is that since mead
is fairly high abv the leftover yeast might be stressed and damaged,
and of course new dry yeast is inexpensive. I guess the motivator would
be that a high cell count (if viable) would ferment a batch quickly.
Thanks,
Mike Hetzel
------------------------------
Subject: Yeast slow startup / yeast recovery
From: Omar Hernández Romero <omar_h_r@yahoo.com.mx>
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 14:24:46 -0600 (CST)
Hello fellow meadmakers,
I'm having some trouble in trying to recover some yeast from previous
fermentations. I have VERY limited access to hombrewing/winemaking
supplies, thus I'm trying to do my best to recover yeast once
fermentation is finished.
I opened a packet of Lalvin 71B-1122 last September, and, after
splitting it in two parts to make two starters for two separate brews,
I was able to recover the lees from the two brews and use them in two
more bacthes successfully. From these last batches, I also recovered
the lees and stored them in the fridge. Due to the sizes of the
"mother" batches, I recovered different amounts of lees at different
times, and follow different procedures to keep my yeast savings alive
(more details later). Both of those "savings" were alive, since I kept
on providing sugar weekly and making sure that the culture was alive
(i.e. they started generating CO2 as I provided more sugar).
Unfortunately, last Saturday, when getting prepared for a new brew, the
biggest of my savings (a 500 ml flask) got contaminated (a fly drowned
in it), and decided not to take any risk and discarded it. After that,
I decided trying to recover by culturing more yeast from the other
savings I had (a 100 ml flask), and purchased some mixed fruit beverage
(namely, Welches Harvest Blend, grape, apple, pear and lime juice, in
water, with some glucose). I used this beverage, added half a campden
tablet (beverage bottle holds half a gallon), and added 3 drops of
saturated (NH4)SO4 solution, and 3 drops of saturated MgSO4 solutions.
That was last Saturday... as of early today, there are no signs of
fermentation. :(
My questions are:
1. What did I do wrong? I'm thinking now that I should have tried and
approach more similar to making a yeast starter, instead of dumping all
my savings into half a gallon "must".
2. Do you think my yeast are still viable?
3. Do you know if there's something I can still do to recover these
yeast, to get viable yeast for, at least, one more 1 gallon bacth?
(There's some pounds of orange blossom honey ready to become elixir)
4. The most important: is there any well-established procedure to
recover and reactivate yeast from lees?
5. Alternatively, do you know of any procedure to culture yeast that I
could later use for brewing (i.e. mantain a live and healthy culture,
from which I can take a portion for brewing)?
I undestand that yeast reproduction is aerobic, vs. "normal operation"
which is anaerobic. I also understand that yeast are "more confortable"
living and working in anaerobic environment. I also know that moving
from anaerobic to aerobic is more demanding to yeast than the opposite.
Any suggestions to "force" switch from anaerobic to aerobic?
I do not have quick access to homebrewing supplies (I need to travel to
the USA... this happens once or twice a year).
I DO have access to chemical supplies (in fact, I'm plannig to use
plain diammonium phosphate as a nutrient in future batches).
Your help and advise would be greatly appreciated.
(Details about how I recovered lees below)
Omar Hernandez
Electronics Engineer, Rookie homebrewer.
Savings # 1, 500 ml total
Lees recovered from orange blossom honey mead, 1 gal batch
About 3 ounces lees
Mixed with 100 ml water, 100 ml guava juice, 100 ml mango juice, 100 ml
orange juice, 3 teaspoons sugar (this concotion boiled for 10 minutes
and cooled before adding yeast)
Happily fermenting for two months in the fridge (about 7° C)
Savings # 2, 150 ml total
Lees recovered from sima, 2 liters batch
About 1.5 ounces lees
Mixed with plain (boiled) water, two teaspoons sugar, two drops
ammonium sulfate, two drops magnesium sulfate (both saturated
solutions)
Happily fermenting for one month in the fridge (about 7° C)
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1308
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