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Mead Lovers Digest #1228
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1228, 13 November 2005
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1228 13 November 2005
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1227, 10 November 2005 (Chuck)
Re: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1227, 10 November 2005 (David Houseman)
Re: Raspberry Honey (Robert Keith Moore)
RE: Raspberry Honey ("Jones, Steve (IT) - Eastman")
Re: Raspberry Honey (Dick Adams)
Re: MLD#1225, 30/10/05 Report on fermentation w/ sorbates (Arthur Torrey)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
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Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1227, 10 November 2005
From: Chuck <wintermead@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:59:45 -0800 (PST)
In MLD #227 "David Houseman"
<david.houseman@verizon.net> asked:
> Subject: BJCP Mead & Cider Judging Forms
> The BJCP will be updating the Beer, Mead and Cider
> judging forms now in wide use.
<snip>
> However, we would
> appreciate input from the Mead and Cider groups, as
> domain experts, on any functional content changes
> that you would recommend to make these more
> relevant to your competitions.
Judging one mead competition I watched one
particularly inept Master BJCP judge ding every mead
entry that had the slightest bit of sparkle to it if
it wasn't marked "carbonated" on the entry form. Since
every mead I make is saturated with 1 atmosphere of
CO2 when I bottle it, any difference in elevation from
the elevation of my basement to where ever the judging
is taking place will result in evidence of
"carbonation" if the judging location is higher than
my basement. Therefore I ask that the judging forms
for mead and cider have an additional "petulant"
category added in addition to "still" and
"carbonated".
Chuck Wettergreen
Geneva, IL
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1227, 10 November 2005
From: David Houseman <david.houseman@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 11:03:11 -0600 (CST)
This IS included in the next version. This matches the most recent revision
of the Mead guidelines.
Thanks,
Dave
=====================
From: Chuck <wintermead@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thu Nov 10 10:59:45 CST 2005
To: mead@talisman.com, david.houseman@verizon.net
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1227, 10 November 2005
In MLD #227 "David Houseman"
<david.houseman@verizon.net> asked:
> Subject: BJCP Mead & Cider Judging Forms
> The BJCP will be updating the Beer, Mead and Cider
> judging forms now in wide use.
<snip>
> However, we would
> appreciate input from the Mead and Cider groups, as
> domain experts, on any functional content changes
> that you would recommend to make these more
> relevant to your competitions.
Judging one mead competition I watched one
particularly inept Master BJCP judge ding every mead
entry that had the slightest bit of sparkle to it if
it wasn't marked "carbonated" on the entry form. Since
every mead I make is saturated with 1 atmosphere of
CO2 when I bottle it, any difference in elevation from
the elevation of my basement to where ever the judging
is taking place will result in evidence of
"carbonation" if the judging location is higher than
my basement. Therefore I ask that the judging forms
for mead and cider have an additional "petulant"
category added in addition to "still" and
"carbonated".
Chuck Wettergreen
Geneva, IL
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Raspberry Honey
From: Robert Keith Moore <Rob@ineedachef.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:13:14 -0800
I make a mead with raspberry honey every year. I find the best way to
make it is the way you prefer. Sweet is good, My favorite is the way I
just won First Place with and that is as a semi-dry champagne style. I
like sparkling wines. Here in the northwest we have lots of berries.
Blackberry honey also makes a good mead. In a six gallon batch a half
gallon of berry juice will kick it up a notch.
Rob of the BeeZerkers
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Raspberry Honey
From: "Jones, Steve (IT) - Eastman" <stjones@eastman.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:17:03 -0500
chris herrington said:
>>I hear that Raspberry honey is a good tasting honey so I ordered 40
Lbs out of Oregon.
>>Anyone experienced with this variety? Is it better dry, semisweet or
sweet?
I made a batch with 18 lbs Raspberry honey and Ec-1118 yeast. The flavor
was quite nice, but I think it would have been better semi-sweet instead
of dry. I have some blueberry honey that I'm going to try soon.
Steve Jones
Johnson City, TN
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Raspberry Honey
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:54:15 -0500 (EST)
chris herrington <asby0@yahoo.com> asked:
> I hear that Raspberry honey is a good tasting honey so
> I ordered 40 Lbs out of Oregon. Anyone experienced
> with this variety? Is it better dry, semisweet or
> sweet?
I've not used Raspberry honey, but do not expect it to
smell or taste like raspberries just as Wildflower, Clover,
Alfalfa, and Orange Blossom don't smell or taste like
their name.
Dry, semisweet, or sweet is up to you. It's your mead
make it the way you want. I'm a sweet guy myself, but
dry is ok with me too.
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: Re: MLD#1225, 30/10/05 Report on fermentation w/ sorbates
From: Arthur Torrey <Arthur_Torrey@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:00:52 -0500
As you may recall, a couple of weeks ago, I asked about starting a
fermentation in a cyser blend that I was making where I accidentally
used cider that had been contaminated (by the maker) w/ sorbates.
My brew supplier said it was hopeless. My GF found a couple of articles
on another website that suggested that possibly fermentation would start
eventually on it's own. I had a couple of responses from here (on and
off list) suggesting that sorbates will not stop an active fermentation,
and that I should make a strong starter and pitch that.
I found that both the eventual kickoff and the strong starter approach
seemed to work. I made a strong starter blend with approx 3 Cups of
water, one cup of honey, and as much yeast nutrient as I would normally
put in a 5 gallon batch... I mixed this with an envelope of Lalvin
EC-1118 yeast. In 48 hours this was showing strong fermentation. In
the meantime the sorbated (and heavily pitched w/ 2 packets of Lalvin
EC1118) must still sitting in my primary was slowly starting to show
some signs of bubbling (this was now about 6 days after my initial
blending). I mixed my starter (about 750ml) w/ enough of the must to
make a gallon batch. After another 48 hours, BOTH the gallon starter
batch and the remaining sorbated must were showing lots of activity, so
how much the starter was needed I don't know. But I didn't have
anything else to do with it so I recombined as much of the gallon
starter and the original must as I could get into the primary fermenter
and put the leftovers in another bottle. Both have been doing real
well, but are starting to slow down a bit. I will need to rack, feed
and add my spices soon.
>From this I would conclude that it is possible to make a sorbated must
ferment, though I wouldn't recommend it, either by pitching heavily and
waiting a longer than normal time, or by pitching with a very active
starter.
However there are a few remaining questions / fears...
Does anyone know if the fermentation would in any way consume or alter
the sorbates so as to make them non-effective? Or are they still
present?
If they are still present it would suggest to me that I would need to be
very careful to keep on top of this batch and make sure that I do any
needed feeding / flavoring tasks BEFORE the active fermentation stops at
any point since I couldn't rely on it being able to restart reliably. I
should also be very paranoid about this batch doing a 'stuck'
fermentation and possibly look at doing more stabilizing than I normally
would (much as I dislike adding chemicals to my brews) to ensure that I
don't make some accidental bottle bombs.
Much thanks to all that responded, on and off list
> Subject: Re: HELP - Need to start fermentation w/ sorbates present!
> From: Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 11:56:11 -0700
>
> > From: arthur_torrey@comcast.net
> > Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:39:57 +0000
> >
> > Help - I just made a tactical error...
>
> <SNIP>
>
> > Just now, I checked the cider bottles and re-read the label, and discovered
> > that they have changed the formula, and now in the fine print they have
> > 'Potassium Sorbate (as a preservative)' at the end.
> > <more snip>
> > Is there any way to get this blend going, or am I going to have to flush it?
>
> Sorbates will prevent rfefermentation, but they will not stop an active
> ferment, so, the thing to do is to get an active fermentation going.
> This is the method that I would use:
>
> You mention rehydrating the yeast, but not making a starter. I would
> suggest making a starter that does NOT have sorbates in it and make sure
> that it has plenty of oxygen and nutrients. Once it is going strongly,
> add a small amount of your must to it. Build up the starter gradually
> by adding small amounts of must at a time and make sure that the
> fermentation keeps going. With a 5 to 6 gallon batch I would build the
> starter up to a gallon or more, and make sure it is going strong, before
> adding it back into the primary fermenter. You don't mention any
> nutrients, or energizer in the original batch, so I would make sure that
> there is sufficient nutrients in the starter to cover the entire batch
> before adding it back in. Also, since your fermenter will have space in
> it by this time, make sure that the must in the primary is oxygenated
> prior to adding the active starter back into it.
>
> HTH
>
> Wassail!
>
> - --
> Marc Shapiro
> mshapiro_42@yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: re: HELP - Need to start fermentation w/ sorbates present!
> From: David Collins-Rivera <lostnbronx@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:56:14 -0700
>
> Gooserider asked about starting up a batch of cyser when potassium
> sorbate is present and is apparently preventing fermentation from
> beginning.
>
> Potassium sorbate is used to keep fermentations from restarting in
> the bottle, thus preventing unwanted carbonation and/or bottle bombs
> from occuring. It does not, however, stop or slow active
> fermentations. What you'll want to do, therefore, is make a
> decently-sized yeast starter and repitch. The starter should be given
> a day or maybe even two to really get going. Use new honey and juice
> - -- sorbate free, this time -- NOT the must you're trying to kick-start
> (naturally). Once the starter is going good and strong, add it to the
> big batch. Fermentation should then begin just fine.
>
> - -David
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1228
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