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Mead Lovers Digest #1224
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1224, 26 October 2005
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1224 26 October 2005
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Super krausen ("J. Russ")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1223, 22 October 2005 ("David Lane")
re-starting fermentation ("John P. Looney")
HELP - Need to start fermentation w/ sorbates present! (arthur_torrey@comc...)
Paterson's Curse in the USA ("Dan McFeeley")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Super krausen
From: "J. Russ" <jruss@jaysbrewing.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:31:22 -0400
> Subject: Re: Super krausen
> From: Mail Box <mail-box@adelphia.net>
> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:44:05 -0400
>
> From: "david.lane " <david.lane@utahisp.com>
> > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:05:55 -0600
> >
> > I've made meads with these yeasts:
> [snipped]
> >
> > I never had what I would really call a krausen,
> > only an inch or two of active bubbles. At least
> > until the D-47...
> >
> > Holy smokes. The 3 gallon batch in the 6.5 gallon
> > primary kept polluting the three piece airlock!
> >
> > Now I'm curious if D-47 (fed periodically with DAP
> > and yeast hulls) might be the culprit, or is the
> > honey itself perhaps to blame, or maybe some celestial
> > alignment issues?
> >
> > Anyway... I like the taste of the mead I've stolen
> > from that batch, so I suspect I'll use use D-46 again.
> > All in all, Lalvin yeast is just super. Has anyone
> > used the Lallemand 43 that seems to be an Eau de Vie
> > competitor?
> >
> > Peace,
> > David
>
> David,
>
> That's very interesting, as Lallemand/Lalvin describes D-47 as "a
> low-foaming quick fermenter that settles well, forming a compact lees at
> the end of fermentation."
>
> Can you share your recipe and fermentation conditions? This may shed
> some light on the unusual activity. Regardless of yeast, and I've used
> a fairly large number of wine and mead yeasts, and ale yeast in
> cider/cysers, I've never had anything even remotely approaching the
> krausen I get with a beer. And it looks as though we use some similar
> techniques, as I use DAP and yeast nutrient in every batch, and
> occasionally yeast hulls. A typical mead krausen for me is under one
> inch, and usually well under. I make melomels primarily, but I haven't
> noticed any different krausen behavior in a straight mead or a metheglyn.
>
> Cheers,
> Ken Taborek
My guess is that the culprit is the honey. I recently made 5 batches of
various meads, all with tupelo honey. There were a few melomels and a
couple of traditional meads. 3 different yeasts were used. Every single
batch foamed up tremendously - more krausen than I've had in any beer
fermentation (or any other fermentation of any type for that matter).
Similar batches made a month ago with orange blossom honey showed the usual
small amount of foam.
Cheers!
Jay
703-298-4705
www.jaysbrewing.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1223, 22 October 2005
From: "David Lane" <david.lane@utahisp.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 10:05:37 -0600
> That's very interesting, as Lallemand/Lalvin describes D-47 as "a
> low-foaming quick fermenter that settles well, forming a compact lees at
> the end of fermentation."
>
> Can you share your recipe and fermentation conditions? This may shed
> some light on the unusual activity. Regardless of yeast, and I've used
> a fairly large number of wine and mead yeasts, and ale yeast in
> cider/cysers, I've never had anything even remotely approaching the
> krausen I get with a beer. And it looks as though we use some similar
> techniques, as I use DAP and yeast nutrient in every batch, and
> occasionally yeast hulls. A typical mead krausen for me is under one
> inch, and usually well under. I make melomels primarily, but I haven't
> noticed any different krausen behavior in a straight mead or a metheglyn.
>
> Cheers,
> Ken Taborek
Ken,
This was all done in a darkish room, clean equipment, about 68 degrees...
I started a three gallon batch using 8 pounds of a non-descript honey
I bought in Costo called Miller's. The water was a local "Spring Water"
(we get water delivered). The 2 packets of yeast were rehydrated
as per the instructions. I added 1 tsp of Yeasy Engergizer and 1/2 tsp DAP.
The next day it had started but was very slow. The second day it was the same
so I decided to stir it up and add 1/2 teaspoon of both Energizer and DAP.
The third day it started going really well. So I didn't fuss with it for
about two weeks when it slowed again.
I lifted the lid to discover this weird krausen. The taste was nearly dry.
At this point I added 3 pounds of honey and racked it. Now it's sitting
bubbling slowing and still creating a fair amount of krausen (enough to
reach the airlock).
I suspect three elements have contributed to this:
1) The water is high in mineral salts.
2) The honey is high in wax or perhaps ash.
3) The must was fed well.
I have since tasted the must a couple times and I like it. The D47 has
created a little "tang" or a "zin sharpness". Either that or the thing
is weirdly infected, but I doubt it.
Peace,
David
------------------------------
Subject: re-starting fermentation
From: "John P. Looney" <valen@tuatha.org>
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:55:59 +0100
It seems one of my batches ended up a lot colder than I expected for two
weeks. I brought it into a warmer area, but the fermtnation is still
really slow (but I think still active). After a month, there is still
about half the sugar left in the mix, as far as I can guess.
Is there much I can do to save the batch ? Will it continue to slowly
ferment over the next few months ? Will such a brew be any good ?
John
- --
For astrology and the rest to flourish it is only necessary that those with
an IQ in double figures do nothing.
-- Lucy Mangan
------------------------------
Subject: HELP - Need to start fermentation w/ sorbates present!
From: arthur_torrey@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:39:57 +0000
Help - I just made a tactical error...
About a week ago I started to make my usual fall batch of my 'Apple Pie
Spiced Cyser' which is a brew that I find very popular and usually quite
quick and easy to make.
In short, the recipe calls for three gallons of cider in a 5-6 gallon batch,
along with the usual honey, water, yeast, etc. This year I decided to use
the water and honey blend that I got from rinsing out my honey extractor
and washing the cappings wax as the water part. This ended the batch up
larger than I'd like, so I barely have room in the primary fermenter.
The cider I used was the same brand I've used in the past with good
results, in fact I told the girlfriend to pick up that brand when she
was shopping. It is 'Rudy's Blend' bottled and distributed by Carlson
Orchards, Inc. Bolton, MA, and purchased at the local Demoula's Market
Basket grocery store. It was unfiltered fresh squeezed that had been
pasteurized but had no preservatives.
I pitched one packet of Lalvin KV 1116 champagne yeast, hydrating per package
directions first. After three days there seemed to be no fermentation
visible in the lock. Fearing that I might have messed up the hydration
processs, I sprinkled another package over the top of the must yesterday.
Today there is still no fermentation!
Just now, I checked the cider bottles and re-read the label, and discovered
that they have changed the formula, and now in the fine print they have
'Potassium Sorbate (as a preservative)' at the end.
I know some folks use sorbates as a stabilizer at the end of fermentation
to keep the yeast from starting back up. But is there any way to make
the yeasties get STARTED when sorbates are present in a new must batch?
Is there any way to get this blend going, or am I going to have to flush it?
Thanks,
Gooserider
------------------------------
Subject: Paterson's Curse in the USA
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:40:06 -0500
Some time last year I posted the item tacked on the
bottom of this post, responding to Mark Evered in
Australia who was asking for info on Paterson's Curse,
an Australian plant.
In the most recent issue of American Bee Journal there
is an article by Bob Harrison on the appearance of
Paterson's Curse in the USA. So far it's only in a
few states, California, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania
and Oregon but is expected to spread.
The info I posted to MLD 1131 seems to have been
updated. Meadmakers should be forewarned -- the Food
Standards of Australia & New Zealand (FSANZ) has
warned consumers not to eat honey made exclusively
from Paterson's Curse due to reports of high levels of
toxins known as pyrrolizidine alkaloids in the honey.
- ---------------------[snip!]-----------------------
Subject: Re: Isolated Australian
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:12:02 -0500
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004, in MLD 1130, Mark Evered asked:
>I live in regional Australia (Armidale, NSW to be precise) and have
>been making mead for about two years. I am still experimenting
>with small batches to find out what I like.
[....] stuff deleted for brevity's sake
>On another (but also Australian) topic: what do you know about
>the presence of pyrrolizidine alkaloids in Salvation Jane / Paterson's
>Curse mead?
I found some references to Salvation Jane/Paterson's Curse honey
in a May 2003 publication on Commercial Beekeeping in Australia:
( http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/03-037.pdf)
Here they are, cut and snipped:
Many of Australia's principal honey producing areas are in, or adjacent
to, agricultural and grazing country. In these areas weeds of pastures,
roadside weeds and weeds of cultivation commanly enhance spring
build-up and every now and then provide a valuable windfall crop in
late summer. And some, such as Paterson's Curse, or Salvation Jane,
Erchium plantagineum are major sources of honey.
The biggest threat to the physical resource from biological control is
the program to reduce the incidence of Paterson's Curse. In the 1997
analysis of major honey deliveries from suppliers living in New South
Wales to Capilano Honey Limited, Paterson's Curse accounted for
the most honey received, closely followed by the combined Ironbark
species.
Some info on the toxins found in Paterson's Curse can be found at these
URL's below. Apparently this is a cumlative poison that can eventually
cause liver damage in livestock. Generally animals will avoid it so long
as there is other good grazing material available.
http://www.abc.net.au/riverland/stories/s563144.htm
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:lbHQWBTmSD8J:www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/H
BREPORT99.doc+pyrrolizidine+alkaloid+patersons+curse&hl=en
http://www.dpiwe.tas.gov.au/intertext.nsf/Attachments/SLEN-5MC7T5/$FILE/Echium%2
0spp%201997.pdf
Some info on pyrrolizidine alkaloids can be found at:
http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap42.html
http://www.itmonline.org/arts/pas.htm
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/alkaloids/pyrrolizidine.html
http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed/PAs/PAs.html
Here's some more info on honey:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_20_161/ai_87022821
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020427/food.asp
It does look like something to be cautious about, but I don't want to
sound alarmist here. Paterson's Curse seems to be a well known
and important resource for beekeepers in Australia. No point in
causing a scare that could do unnecessary damage to the beekeeping
industry by overreacting to some of the material in the more
technical articles. There doesn't seem to be any specific info on
amounts of pyrrolizidine alkaloids in Paterson's Curse honey, or
what effects the specific pyrrolizidine alkaloids in the plant may or
may not have on humans.
Take a look at the web site for the Australian Honey Research Unit,
located at the School of Land and Food Sciences, The University
of Queensland in Brisbane:
http://www.fst.uq.edu.au/staff/bdarcy/honey/
There is information on how to contact Dr. Bruce DArcy
and his staff, either by phone or by e-mail. They're helpful
people who can probably give you more thorough info on
this subject.
Sorry, some of those URL's are pretty long. If they don't
work on your web browser, try cutting and splicing small
sections into the address section.
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1224
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