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Mead Lovers Digest #1240
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1240, 10 January 2006
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1240 10 January 2006
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE: hydrometer vs. refractometer readings ("Janis Gross")
Re: Add now, or wait until later... (Marc Shapiro)
Re: Extended fermentation question (Dick Adams)
Re: Temperatures/fermentation (Marc Shapiro)
Re: Add now, or wait until later... (Dick Adams)
Re: What year should I put on my label? (Marc Shapiro)
Re: hydrometer vs refractometer ("J. Russ")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1239, 8 January 2006 (Eric Drake)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1239, 8 January 2006 ("lameuse@netzero.net")
Re: Add extras during primary or secondary (or totally after) (DocMac9582@...)
Re:hydrometer vs refractometer (Michael Faul)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1239, 8 January 2006 (David Collins-Rivera)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: hydrometer vs. refractometer readings
From: "Janis Gross" <totallygross@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:11:08 -0700
Hi Robert,
My understanding is that the refractometer is only suited to measuring the
pure sucrose values of wort or must before fermentation. The alcohol from
fermentation will skew the refractive index. My ProMash software does have
a way to adjust post-fermentation measurements made with a refractometer,
but I'd probably do side-by-side measurements with my hydrometer to bear out
their correction calculation.
Cheers!
Janis [8-)
>Subject: hydrometer vs refractometer
>From: Robert Keith Moore <Rob@ineedachef.com>
>Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 13:17:16 -0800
>
>Hey,
> when testing the same mead with both hydrometer and a refractometer I
>got different readings. I was testing a mead that has been going for
>about 2 weeks. The hydro reading was 21 brix, the refract reading was 27
>brix. Why does that happen? What does that say about choice of tool to
>use? Oh yeah the mead was 68 degrees. The refractometer has ATC.
>
>Thanks,
> Robert
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Add now, or wait until later...
From: Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:50:44 -0800
"Michael Zahl" <mzahl@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Is it better (or not) to add the ?extras? (like spices, fruit etc) during
> your primary or secondary fermentation. In my short tenure (4 years) of
> mead making, I?ve always put the fruit and spice in right when I started
> primary fermentation. My home brew store owner Jon, prefers to add
> everything into secondary.
I add everything up front.
I have heard the argument of adding fruit in the secondary for aroma
before. I have not tried it, so I can not truly vouch for its veracity,
or lack, thereof.
Spices, however, should be added prior to fermentation, from what I have
heard. The reason for this being that alcohol will sometimes extract
different aromatics and flavorings from spices than water will. This
may not be a problem in all cases, but for cloves, which I use a lot,
and some other spices (including, I believe, cinnamon, which I also use,
and other woody spices) alcohol will draw out more bitterness, and not
what you expect from the spices. For this reason, I always add my
spices to warm water and allow them to steep overnight in a covered pot.
I then remove the spices, reheat to 160F, and add the rest of my
ingredients. This has the added advantage of making my kitchen smell
wonderful by morning.
- --
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Extended fermentation question
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 01:51:52 -0500 (EST)
> I had a peach melomel successfully stop fermentation with
> ending gravity of .998. I then racked twice, after the
> first and second months, and then sweetened with two cups
> of honey, which resumed the fermentation. It has been slow,
> but continuous for almost two months. The bubble out of
> the airlock has been less then every thirty minutes, but
> little bubbles are continuously being created and congregating
> up in the neck of the carboy. Should I rack the mead off the
> gunk at the bottom even though it's still fermenting, or let
> it keep going? I don't mind the higher alcohol content, as I
> think it really needed it. But I would like to sweeten it
> when it's time to bottle. My main concern at this point is
> that if I let it continue to ferment, will it suffer from
> being on the lees for this long? Thank you all.
My rule of thumb is I rack after the lees are 3/16 of an inch
from the floor in the secondary. For our metric colleagues,
that's 9.5 mm. Since you have racked twice already, I'd
suggest racking again just because you are conrerned about the
lees.
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Temperatures/fermentation
From: Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 22:58:37 -0800
tom veatch <buzzme@inbox.com> wrote:
>
> My Q is how to be sure that the fermentaion has run its course.
<SNIP>
> Now that the temps have fallen in area I call my meadery/honey
> house, there is no discernable activity. A batch of lager is happily
> working there even now.
> I'm cautioned to bottle for the chance the ferment will resume once temps
> rise again. I propose to rack and simply store the batch in carboy till
> late spring-bubbler in place.The color is still very blood red. I really
> expected to just keep a slight tint. Maybe its not done working. Just
> what gravity range should it be in before I bottle? Thnx in advance, TV.
If your hydrometer reading is at, or below 1.000 then you are good to
go. Even a little above 1.000 should not be a problem. I frequently
bottle when my melomels are around 1.003 - 1.005. If it is too much
above that, then You might want to wait a while and see if fermentation
will restart. There is absolutely nothing wrong with racking to a fresh
carboy and leaving it under an airlock until spring.
- --
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Add now, or wait until later...
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 02:00:50 -0500 (EST)
> After starting my mead batches for the season (11 batches
> totally 74 gallons), a recent discussion with the local home
> brew store owner brought up an interesting topic for
> discussion here (I hope!)
>
> Is it better (or not) to add the ?extras? (like spices, fruit
> etc) during your primary or secondary fermentation. In my
> short tenure (4 years) of mead making, I?ve always put the
> fruit and spice in right when I started primary fermentation.
> My home brew store owner Jon, prefers to add everything into
> secondary.
>
> His point to me is that you will get a stronger (aka better)
> aroma by adding it later. But he conceded that you probably
> will get more flavor adding to primary.
>
> So, gang, what do y?all experts say?
Well, I am not an expert at mead making, just an experienced
novice. I add fruit to the primary if there is fermentable
sugar content worth discussing, but spices to the secondary
because their fermentable sugar content is not worth discussing.
But there are always exceptions like "like let's see what
happens."
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: Re: What year should I put on my label?
From: Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 23:05:24 -0800
"Rick" <beekeepers@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
> I started two meads in August and September of 2005. I will bottle them
> sometime in the spring or summer of 2006. What year will I put on the
> beautiful labels that I am creating for my bottles? Thanks.
In the case of wine, the year on the label is the vintage year, meaning
when the grapes were picked. This would suggest that 2005 would be the
correct year. Of course, if your honey is old, it might be from a
previous year, although I would not use a year on the lable prior to the
year that I started fermentation. You could use 2006 and label it as
"Bottled in 2006" if you wanted to do that. I would use 2005, though,
the year that fermentation began.
- --
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: hydrometer vs refractometer
From: "J. Russ" <jruss@jaysbrewing.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 09:56:25 -0500
Rob,
Hydrometers will not give you a correct reading of the sugar content once
fermentation has begun. You will find some stuff on the Internet about
trying to get a reading using some formulas. I have never tried that.
On the plus side, using your refractometer along with a hydrometer you can
calculate the alcohol content. Again, search the Internet and you will find
a formula. This I have tried and it seems to be accurate.
Cheers!
Jay
www.jaysbrewing.com
> Subject: hydrometer vs refractometer
> From: Robert Keith Moore <Rob@ineedachef.com>
> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 13:17:16 -0800
>
> Hey,
> when testing the same mead with both hydrometer and a refractometer I
> got different readings. I was testing a mead that has been going for
> about 2 weeks. The hydro reading was 21 brix, the refract reading was 27
> brix. Why does that happen? What does that say about choice of tool to
> use? Oh yeah the mead was 68 degrees. The refractometer has ATC.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1239, 8 January 2006
From: Eric Drake <drake.49@osu.edu>
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 13:41:14 -0500
At 10:44 PM 1/8/2006, you wrote:
>Subject: Add now, or wait until later...
>From: "Michael Zahl" <mzahl@cox.net>
>Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 00:28:15 -0800
>
>After starting my mead batches for the season (11 batches totally 74
>gallons), a recent discussion with the local home brew store owner brought
>up an interesting topic for discussion here (I hope!)
>
>Is it better (or not) to add the ?extras? (like spices, fruit etc) during
>your primary or secondary fermentation. In my short tenure (4 years) of
>mead making, I?ve always put the fruit and spice in right when I started
>primary fermentation. My home brew store owner Jon, prefers to add
>everything into secondary.
>
>His point to me is that you will get a stronger (aka better) aroma by adding
>it later. But he conceded that you probably will get more flavor adding to
>primary.
>
>So, gang, what do y?all experts say?
>
>*inquiring minds are dying to know*
>
>Michael
I find that if you add fruits and spices to the primary, they get
scrubbed in a manner that gives the mead subtle more mature flavors
and aromas. Adding them to the secondary yields a fresher more
idealistic quality, but adding them to both produces a very complex,
elegant mead that holds layers of flavors. There is no wrong answer here.
Thanks,
Eric
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1239, 8 January 2006
From: "lameuse@netzero.net" <lameuse@netzero.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:44:52 GMT
Robert asked about refractometers vs hydrometer, and it sounds like since
it is 2 weeks into ferment there would more than likely be yeasty beasties
in there making the refractometer the far less accurate tool. Even when a
mead 'looks clear', at 2 weeks there'll be a significant yeast population
there. Most folks will only use the refractometer on musts/worts prior to
pitching because of this. Hope that helps.
Len
Subject: hydrometer vs refractometer
From: Robert Keith Moore <Rob@ineedachef.com>
Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 13:17:16 -0800
Hey,
when testing the same mead with both hydrometer and a refractometer I
got different readings. I was testing a mead that has been going for
about 2 weeks. The hydro reading was 21 brix, the refract reading was 27
brix. Why does that happen? What does that say about choice of tool to
use? Oh yeah the mead was 68 degrees. The refractometer has ATC.
Thanks,
Robert
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Add extras during primary or secondary (or totally after)
From: DocMac9582@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:28:30 EST
M. Zahl askes: Is it better (or not) to add the ?extras? (like spices,
fruit etc) during
your primary or secondary fermentation.
I also have about 85 or 90 gal. of mead fermenting at any one time. I
prefer adding the fruit and spices (and most of the added acids) after even the
secondary fermentation is finished, racked, and the mead is stablized with
potasium sorbate. And then I do a BUNCH of blending of different batches to get
the best balance of fruit versus honey and sweet versus acidic
characteristics based on sampling panels of family and friends. [For example:
How about 20% of batch #32 and 80% of batch #47; And do you prefer the 30 mg
acid per 10 cc of mead or the 35 mg/10cc?]
However, it is totally your preference - depending on how you want the mead
to taste. If you do a taste test of various fruit lambics from Belgium, you
can easily determine that some of them add the fruit early and others add it
late giving very different tasting beers. The late addition gives a fruit
taste compared to the fermented fruit taste of the early addition lambics (e.g.
the difference between grape taste and normal wine taste - or apple wine and
apple hard cider). If I like blackberry flavor, I don't really want to
produce a fermented blackberry flavor via fermentation (which gives a totally
different flavor).
I guess I do the same for the spiced wine because I am not sure what flavor
components ferment out of - or into various spices, but like the flavor of the
spices that I choose to use. It might be that the changes wrought by
fermentation to the flavor and aroma components of some spices might be very
good and changes to other spices might be very bad. It would be nice to see a
table of the changes to flavor and aroma brought about by fermentation on a
spice by spice basis (anyone???)
Carl McMillin
Brecksville, OH scientist
------------------------------
Subject: Re:hydrometer vs refractometer
From: Michael Faul <mfaul@rabbitsfootmeadery.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 07:30:12 -0800
Refractometers are not accurate for measurement when there is anything
in the way of alcohol in the liquid. The hydrometer is mroe accurate but
still not 100%
Mike
> Subject: hydrometer vs refractometer
> From: Robert Keith Moore <Rob@ineedachef.com>
> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 13:17:16 -0800
>
> Hey,
> when testing the same mead with both hydrometer and a refractometer I
> got different readings. I was testing a mead that has been going for
> about 2 weeks. The hydro reading was 21 brix, the refract reading was 27
> brix. Why does that happen? What does that say about choice of tool to
> use? Oh yeah the mead was 68 degrees. The refractometer has ATC.
- --
Rabbit's Foot Meadery & Red Branch Cider Co.
Award Winning Mead & Hard Apple Cider
http://www.rabbitsfootmeadery.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1239, 8 January 2006
From: David Collins-Rivera <lostnbronx@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:21:46 -0700
re: Add now, or wait until later...
There's really no right or wrong on this. Some people add their fruit
at the beginning, to obtain a fermented fruit flavor and more
complexity, while others add it in Secondary for more of a fresh fruit
flavor. Still others add to both Primary and Secondary to create
something of a layered effect to the flavor profile. It's only a
matter of taste. Most grape wines, remember, do not taste anything
like grape juice, while many country wines do taste like the fruits
they were made with. Style and personal preference are the only
things that matter here, and experimentation is your best tool for
finding out.
- -David
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1240
*******************************
