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Mead Lovers Digest #1193
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1193, 22 June 2005
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1193 22 June 2005
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Private label (Charles Sifers)
Re: Mead Nomenclature (hydromel) ("Dan McFeeley")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1192, 19 June 2005 (Mark Ottenberg)
small mead (Dick Dunn)
Re: Rhodomels (Randy Goldberg MD)
Re: New Method of Monitoring Specific Gravity (Erroll Ozgencil)
Re: California private label regulations (Michael Faul)
Re: New Method of Monitoring Specific Gravity (Dennis Henry)
Re: Buckwheat and Leatherwood (Dick Adams)
Re: mead taxonomy (Dick Adams)
Re: Rhodomels (Dick Adams)
braggot recipe (Marty and Janice Woodcock)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead
A searchable archive is available at www.gotmead.com/mead-research/mld
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Private label
From: Charles Sifers <chazzone@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:59:57 -0500
On Jun 19, 2005, at 9:56 AM, mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Subject: California private label regulations
> From: docmac9582@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:26:40 -0400
>
>
> I looked into small scale mead production a couple of years ago. I was
> naive and initially asked the Feds (what was the Alcohol, Tobacco, and
> Firearms personnel) whether there was some way I could pay the required
> taxes and sell my own mead. Through their response and further reading of
> all of the= regulations in the Code of Federal Regulations, I found that
> in addition to the paper work and the fees (I think it was $5000 federal
> and then several state fees for another $500-$1000 in Ohio) there were
> horrible restraints put on small scale production.
I guess this is all a matter of interpretation, as I am pursuing a
commercial meadery (winery) liscence, and I didn't find their
regulations unreasonable, at all.
If one is to produce a product for other's consumption, it should be
clean and safe, and the consumer needs to know what they are getting.
I know of a guy who bills himself as the "largest unliscensed meadery
in America", and even though his swill is well known, the quality
leaves much to be desired, and I wouldn't drink or serve it, as I don't
trust this guy to do everything necessary to put out a safe product.
Sure people buy it, but people buy crystal meth, too, and it's cooked
up in much the same care that some guys make mead.
The basic winery liscense is only a few hundred dollars, (plus what
your state requires), then you have to pay tax on your stock. You can
produce mead in your home, but you need a seperate entrance, and your
facilities have to be inspected by your state board of health, as any
food production area should be. Recipes must recieve approval, but why
would that be an issue if you're making something safe? I know the
feds can be obtuse, but my experience is that they are open to
discussion, and if there is some conflict, there is a mechanism to
resolve it.
If you just want to make some fizzy honeydew, pour it into some bottles
you washed out, and sell it at festivals to alcoholic pagans, I can see
where one might be put off by the regulatory process, but if you're a
craftsman who wants to produce a quality product for sale to the
general public, I would consider the requirements to be the benchmark
that says you're at least competent.
- -zz
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Nomenclature (hydromel)
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:39:18 -0500
David (Lostnbronx) wrote:
>The problem as I see it is that there IS a class of lower-alcohol mead out
>there these days that people view as being different unto itself, and
>almost
>invariably it's called hydromel. The IMA, the BJCP, and the Mazer Cup
>Competition all use the word hydromel to describe this kind of mead (the
>BJCP judging guidelines seem to use the word more as an adjective than a
>noun, but the mead it's describing is clearly a lower alcohol version).
>Hall's "A Treatise on Mead Judging" makes reference to it in this context
>as
>well. The TTB (formerly ATF), in a recent decision on low alcohol meads,
>used the word as a style name, also with this meaning
>
>What's important to keep in mind is that the vast majority of meadmakers
>in America who have heard of hydromel seem to think it's a low alcohol
>mead. This use of the word may have been started in ignorance, but
>I'd say it's become its own thing -- a thing worthy of a name. Attempting
>to sway opinions at this stage might be a "Sand vs. The Tide" kind of
>fight, and confusing to many folks, but it's certainly worthy of
>discussion.
Sorry Dave, I have to cast my vote for using the right name for the
right usage. :-) The use of the word "hydromel" is a misinterpretation
of a recipe taken from Digby's "Closet Opened," written in the 1600's.
At one time French was the court language of England, so I'm guessing
that Digby's hydromel recipe is simply a harkening back to earlier days,
and not a specific type of weak mead.
"Hydromel" is originally an ancient Greek word, which was then picked
up in Latin. I'm not sure without checking references but I think Pliny
the Elder used the word hydromel in his first century recipe for mead.
This particular hydromel was not weak -- about 1/3 honey to 2/3
water if I remember right. French is a Romance language, so that
would explain how the original Greek word "hydromel" migrated
from Latin, and from there to the French language.
In any case, if you travel in France and use the word "hydromel" in
this very specific way, you're likely to get funny looks, or the
Gaulish equivalent. Hydromel is the French word for mead, any
kind of mead, and that's how it's used in the language.
Another data point -- Brother Adam was well known for his low
gravity meads, yet, to the best of my knowledge, no one has called
them a hydromel.
Hope this comes across as clarifying, rather than overly critical!
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1192, 19 June 2005
From: Mark Ottenberg <mark@riverrock.org>
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 15:58:43 -0600
At 08:56 AM 6/19/2005, you wrote:
>Subject: New Method of Monitoring Specific Gravity
>From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
>Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:00:17 -0500
>
>I wanted to let folk on the digest know the results of an experiment
>I just ran, testing a new method of monitoring the gravity of a
>fermenting must. The benefits of this approach are, it doesn't
>require opening the carboy to take samples, and it doesn't use
>a hydrometer. Intriqued?
I wouldn't want to use this method until I figured out just how much weight
gets accumulated in the lees on the bottom of the carboy. It could be
significant, or it might not. Simply one of my first guesses at factors
that might throw off the accuracy of a reading. Especially as the lees are
not a constant, but accumulate with time.
Peace,
-- Mark
------------------------------
Subject: small mead
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 16:44:23 -0600
In Mead Lover's Digest #1191, 15 June 2005, David Collins-Rivera
<lostnbronx@gmail.com> wrote:
(re mis-use of "hydromel" to mean "weak mead")...
> The problem as I see it is that there IS a class of lower-alcohol mead out
> there these days that people view as being different unto itself, and almost
> invariably it's called hydromel...
That -might- be the most common word applied to it, but that's IF there is
a single word chosen. I think a lot of people say "lower-alcohol mead" out
of being unfamiliar or uncomfortable (mostly unfamiliar) with the "hydromel"
mis-use.
...
> Another term I've seen used to describe this type of drink is "small mead",
> and it might be more appropriate too...
Yes, that is appropriate, and accurate, and there's precedent for it. It
also has a slight advantage that you can say "small metheglin" etc. And
it works by analogy with "small beer" (low-alcohol beer made from a second
sparging of the grain).
>...Nonetheless, and regardless of its
> historical accuracy, I really think the word hydromel, as used to describe
> lower alcohol meads, is here to stay...
It's not just -historical- inaccuracy; it's current inaccuracy. It's never
going to cease being a problem, so why can't we just fix it? You may be
right; I'm probably too optimistic to think it can be changed. Still, all
it would take would be (say) the BJCP and the IMA agreeing to change to the
phrase "small mead (sometimes mis-named 'hydromel')" and the problem could
be solved inside of a year. Simple in principle, but might be difficult
because some people like to maintain the mis-use even though they know it's
wrong. It's like trying to get rid of mead's "honeymoon" word-origin myth[*].
>...What's important to keep in mind is that the vast majority of
> meadmakers in America who have heard of hydromel seem to think it's a low
> alcohol mead...
I don't think many US meadmakers have heard the term "hydromel" at all, let
alone in the mis-used context. Looking back over this digest since issue
1000 (somewhat over two years), there's one individual mis-use and a couple
more in context of competition category names...the remainder of occurrences
are in context of discussing the meaning of the word. There's little loss
in correcting usage IF we get on with it soon!
And again, why should we encourage it? Just because we're 21st-century
Americans so we think we can tell the rest of the world (including the rest
of the English-speaking world) that we invented a new, contrary meaning for
an existing word? (pardon the cynicism if you will)
[*]the honeymoon myth:
People are still propagating the legend that "honeymoon" refers to some
ancient practice of drinking mead for a month after marriage. There's no
truth to it, but it's an interesting study in the will to keep a cute
legend alive.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Rhodomels
From: Randy Goldberg MD <randy@randygoldberg.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 18:13:11 -0400
> Subject: Rhodomels
> From: "Robert Farrell" <bfarrell100@hotmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:46:13 -0700
>
> One of the organic food stores has a gallon jar full of dried organic rose
> hips. Is it possible to hydrate these and make a rhodomel?
That would be a "rose hip metheglin". Rhodomel is made with ROSES
(i.e. petals). Rose hips are the FRUIT of the pollinated rose (rose is to
rose hip as apple blossom is to apple).
****************
Randy Goldberg MD
RandomTag: This tagline will self-destruct in 5 seconds.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: New Method of Monitoring Specific Gravity
From: Erroll Ozgencil <errollo@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 18:00:53 -0700
Thanks for sharing. This might be one of those great ideas that seems
simple and obvious *after* someone else thinks it up and explains it!
> progresses, the more an error factor creeps in. This is
> because of volume shrinkage from CO2 and water vapor
It's tempting to think that the shrinkage from CO2 is related, maybe
even directly proportional, to the weight loss that you are measuring.
In your example then, instead of dividing by 50.45 lb each time, you
would divide by ( 50.45 - f(delta weight) ). The function f() would
determine the amount of weight loss from volume shrinkage and return
water weight of that volume. Do I have the right idea, or am I
overlooking something?
Back in school I was often on the wrong side of, "... this is left as
an exercise for the reader." So Dan, are you up for a little exercise?
:)
Erroll
------------------------------
Subject: Re: California private label regulations
From: Michael Faul <mfaul@rabbitsfootmeadery.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 20:39:45 -0700
> Subject: California private label regulations
> From: docmac9582@aol.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:26:40 -0400
>
> Unfortunately, I believe that the private label is ONLY the customized label
> placed on wine from a standard regulated winery. See for example the
> following link.
>
Yes
>
> I looked into small scale mead production a couple of years ago. I was
> naive and initially asked the Feds (what was the Alcohol, Tobacco, and
> Firearms personnel) whether there was some way I could pay the required
> taxes and sell my own mead. Through their response and further reading of
> all of the= regulations in the Code of Federal Regulations, I found that
> in addition to the paper work and the fees (I think it was $5000 federal
> and then several state fees for another $500-$1000 in Ohio) there were
> horrible restraints put on small scale production. For example, I could
> not ferment and live in the same building (excluding my basement production
> - - darn). Needed controlled access to production area (didn't find if my
> house security alarm would do, because couldn't produce in my house).
Some of this is true but it is really pretty simple if you are willing
to take the six months of procedure and paperwrk. Cost is not much for
the license. You do have to have the means to run the business and haev
the equipment though.
> Needed pre-approved formulations (I sent one early on to the Feds that
> had too much yeast nutrient according to the regulation guidelines, but
> they wouldn't evaluate it in advance of my obtaining a license). I would
> have needed exact control and accounting in terms of produced quantity of
> mead versus incoming raw materials. Could NOT use pre-existing aged mead
> I had on hand from my personal exemption. Could ONLY sell mead that was
> started AFTER getting a license. The federal regulations are definitely
> not friendly to potential small craft brewers. I would have been glad
> to pay the government taxes, but it just doesn't look possible. I hope I
> misinterpreted some of these rules, or that they get modified. Currently,
> it does not look feasible to boot-strap a mead production business from
> hobby brewing.
>
I think you might have read too much into it
> With all of this, the best way for me to start would have been to contact
> a licensed winery that had excess capacity and use their facilities
> and licenses doing contract brewing. This should be possible because
> wine production and bottling is locked in with the seasons, whereas mead
> production could be done in the wine production off-season. [I found a
> local winery/meadery that was receptive to the concept of contract brewing
> for me, but haven't followed up on this yet.] Contract brewing would
> also have the advantage of not requiring capital - not only for tanks,
> but for occasionally used items such as a bottling and packaging line.
> Still would have had major scale-up problems, such as propagating enough
> yeast starter for larger batches and handling of viscous, hard to mix
> honey - even emptying the honey containers would be a chore, but I guess
> that is part of the business.
I'll help anyone start a meadery and will allow contract work at my
facililty.
Mike
------------------------------
Subject: Re: New Method of Monitoring Specific Gravity
From: Dennis Henry <dennis.henry@comdev.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:37:29 -0400
Dan,
I have experimented a bit with this method in recent years. Generally I
measure the SG a couple times through the fermentation as well as weighing
more frequently.
Each time I measure the SG, I also measure the weight and calculate an
updated volume. Then, by assuming the volume doesn't change significantly
over a few days, you can calculate the SG from an new weight measurement.
Another possible error at the end of fermentation is that there is
an underlying assumption that the SG is uniform for the whole carboy.
Once there are lees, this is no longer the case. The less sitting on the
bottom contribute to the weight measurement, but not to the SG measurement.
I find that weighing the carboy is also very useful when racking, making
additions, etc. If you measure both the SG and the weight before and after
a racking, you know the volume before and after. When measured before and
after adding some honey to sweeten, you get data on both the increase in
SG and the increased volume.
Dennis
> Subject: New Method of Monitoring Specific Gravity
> From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:00:17 -0500
>
> I wanted to let folk on the digest know the results of an experiment
> I just ran, testing a new method of monitoring the gravity of a
> fermenting must. The benefits of this approach are, it doesn't
> require opening the carboy to take samples, and it doesn't use
> a hydrometer. Intriqued?
>
> <snip>
>
> A word of warning -- the further along the fermentation
> progresses, the more an error factor creeps in. This is
> because of volume shrinkage from CO2 and water vapor
> escaping through the airlock. In order for the calculated
> gravity to be accurate, the volumes of the must and water
> have to be the same, and this doesn't happen in a healthy
> fermentation. This showed in the final figures. When the
> fermentation stopped and I racked off the gross lees, the
> calculated gravity was .993 while the actual gravity was 1.010.
>
> I suppose if I had really done this up right, I'd be taking
> daily hydrometer readings along with weighing the carboy.
> That would have allowed for comparison of the error factor
> as it widened with time. I've always been adverse to opening
> a carboy until it's time to rack, so I left it alone.
>
> <snip>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Buckwheat and Leatherwood
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:54:10 -0400 (EDT)
"Mike Castelluccio" <mcastelluccio@excite.com> asked:
> I have a question about matching varieties of honey to
> styles of mead.
>
> I have been brewing mead off an on for a few years and I
> have recently started experimenting with my honey selections.
> I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion for a Buckwheat
> honey, I would think it is best suited for a braggot but I
> may be missing something.
I think it is best suited for letting my wife use it in
sauces. But we all have opinions.
Maybe we should schedule a Buckwheat Mead Competition for
the Fall of 2010 to give people time to age their meads.
> Also, has anyone had any experience with leatherwood honey
> from Tasmania? If has a similar ?barny? flavor to buckwheat
> but not as strong, and it reminds me a little of eucalyptus
> honey but not as spicy. I was thinking about mixing the
> leatherwood with eucalyptus and spicing with cloves or
> cinnamon.
Ah, The joys of Australian Honey. <g>
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: Re: mead taxonomy
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:54:10 -0400 (EDT)
Try "Light Mead"
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Rhodomels
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 00:54:10 -0400 (EDT)
Bob Farrell asked:
> One of the organic food stores has a gallon jar full of
> dried organic rose hips. Is it possible to hydrate these
> and make a rhodomel?
I wouldn't try it because the essential oils in the rose
petals are no longer there.
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: braggot recipe
From: Marty and Janice Woodcock <martynjanice@shaw.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:14:36 -0600
I was wondering if anyone has a good and simple recipe for making
braggot from scratch. My husband and I have made braggots using beer kits
and replacing the corn sugar with honey. He would like to try one from
scratch. What kinds of hops do you use, when do you add them, etc? Thanks
in advance for the help.
Janice
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1193
*******************************
