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Mead Lovers Digest #1161
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1161, 18 February 2005
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1161 18 February 2005
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE: Cheap Honey ("Michael Zahl")
RE: Temperature Control ("Michael Zahl")
Re: newbie info needed (Jeremy Bergsman)
RE: orange mead and acidity, Mead Lover's Digest #1160, 16 February (Ken Vale)
Re: Cheap Honey? (Dick Adams)
Temperature Control (hillsofg)
Off-gassing (Jim Johnston)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1160, 16 February 2005 (Steve Thompson)
Re: MLD #1160, 16/2/05, venting bottles, cheap honey, Artificial sweets ("...)
Re: Book Review - "Robbing the Bees" by Holley Bishop (Galenflys@aol.com)
RE: Cheap Honey ("Jones, Steve (eIS) - Eastman")
Meads and Rudesheimer yeast ("david.lane ")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cheap Honey
From: "Michael Zahl" <mzahl@neo.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:03:30 -0500
I noticed that Sam's Club here in Akron, Ohio had 5 lbs of Clover Honey
selling for $8.56. It's generic brand, probably not the highest quality,
but, it is cheap honey!
Also, I have a local apiary in Alliance, Ohio who sells honey, and will
ship.
Price was $1.50/ pound which is $90 for a 60#, 5 gallon plastic bucket of
honey.
It's good quality dark wild flower honey. He also has pumpkin flower honey
which I have in a batch right now!
Search through the digest for my post on Floyd Marshall, Marshall Apiary for
more info, or email me privately off list!
Happy Mead Making!
Michael Zahl
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Temperature Control
From: "Michael Zahl" <mzahl@neo.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:06:03 -0500
My very first batch was started in the late fall, and I used a blanket and
heating pad to "keep my mead musts warm." It seemed to work fairly well,
temps in the 70-75 degree F range.
The only potential concern was, and I'll ask for the group's comments on
this, whether or not I was positively or negatively affecting the
fermentation by adding heat. Does a must that ferments faster/slower or at
a higher/lower temperature have a "large or noticeable" affect on the final
product?
Curious...
Michael Zahl
Subject: Temperature Control
From: "Len Wenzel" <len.wenzel@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:23:39 -0500
Recently I became a little concerned about a batch of beer I was brewing,
that it was too cold, and that the temperature had too large a variance
daytime/nighttime. The answer became fairly simple, I tried a heating pad,
wrapped around a towel, around my carboy. On high, (on a fairly low powered
heating pad) I was able to maintain a very stable 74 degrees, which seems
optimal for both brewing beer, or mead.
I was pleasantly surprised by how well it worked. Fermentation, both
primary, and secondary, was very vigorous, and continuous, until the
available sugars were used. Taste seems first rate.
Has anyone else used something similar to making Meade? I am looking
forward to starting a batch of Meade, as soon as I get some more honey. I
guess I can't help but wonder why I didn't try this sooner, there have been
quite a few batches of both Meade, and beer, over the last few years;
that really could have used a heater, to provide a stable, optimal
temperature.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: newbie info needed
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy@bergsman.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:42:22 -0500
To be more specific, the things I think I need (but perhaps I don't) are
acids and nutrients that one might use in mead but not in beer. Also, I
didn't check carefully, but I don't believe they have a wide selection of
non-beer yeast, so a source for that would be useful too.
Thanks again.
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremy@bergsman.org
http://www.bergsman.org/jeremy
------------------------------
Subject: RE: orange mead and acidity, Mead Lover's Digest #1160, 16 February
From: Ken Vale <kenvale@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:36:01 -0500
mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
>Subject: RE: orange mead and acidity
>From: "Wout Klingens" <wcm.klingens@hetnet.nl>
>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:01:01 +0100
>
>Hi, gang.
>
>Ok, just this once. For old times' sake.
>
>1. You do not use CaCO3 or Acidex on wine. You use on on must.
>2. Acidex works on malic and tartaric acid.
>3. Orange juice has a lot of citric.
>4. Acidex and the like bind citric to substances which dissolves in mead.
>They won't precipitate, making your mead salty, bitter, undrinkable.
>5. You shoot for a must with a TA of about 8. It will lower after
>fermentation is done *if* MLF occurs.
>6. You do not want MLF in citric. It makes vinegar.
>5. You look for pH *only* to buffer the pH during fermentation. It speeds up
>things, but binds acids --> see above. So it has some drawbacks.
>6. When *must* is too acidic, you mix can it with water. In mead you won't
>have body problems.
>7. If your *mead* turns out too acidic then blend it with an a mead lacking
>acidity. Measure the TA first! End TA depends on the type of mead you are
>making. There are data out there in books and on the internet.
>
>Nuf said.
>
>Greetings to the old gang. Still out here. With my own orchard nowadays!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Wout.
>
Thanks this is good to know, I've never made an Orange Mead (or anything
with high amounts of citric acid). I guess I gave out some bad advice,
ah well live and learn (I still have a lot of both to do).
Oh and I did open a bottle of that 2 year old Pyment made from the
highly acidic wild grapes, still to acidic, tastes a bit watery and has
a baking soda like after taste, I'm not going to do that again (though I
wonder if it is good for cooking).
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cheap Honey?
From: rdadams@smart.net (Dick Adams)
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 23:26:22 -0500 (EST)
AleX in South Bend wrote:
> Steve Ruch was saying Costco has clover honey at less than $10 for
> 6lbs. Is it a limited-time thing? Anyone checked somewhere else? By any
> chance, would anyone know about similar prices in Canada (in the
> 2?3CAD/lbs. range)?
The best price I have gotten for honey was $91.80 for 60 lbs
from www.DutchGoldHoney.com and pick it up at their plant in
Lancaster, PA. Shipped to you it's about $124 for 60 lbs.
If someone is selling it for under $10 for 6 lbs, I would be
concerned about quality.
I have yet to meet a local beekeeper who wants less than $30/12 lbs.
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: Temperature Control
From: hillsofg <hillsofg@netvision.net.il>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:44:41 +0300
I haven't had a problem getting mead to ferment, but with a hard
lemonade I make (obviously a temperamental high-acid must), the only way
to start fermentation is by leaving the primary on top of a heating pad
set on the highest setting and covering the bucket with a heavy towel. I
was a little anxious that the bottom part of the must would cook, but
it's always been fine. That, and vigorous aeration with an egg whip
twice daily, got the yeast moving in the acidic must. Come summertime,
I'll just leave the covered bucket in the kitchen, where it's hot
enough.
Miriam Kresh
www.hillsofgalilee.com
Subject: Temperature Control
From: "Len Wenzel" <len.wenzel@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:23:39 -0500
Recently I became a little concerned about a batch of beer I was
brewing, that it was too cold, and that the temperature had too large a
variance daytime/nighttime. The answer became fairly simple, I tried a
heating pad, wrapped around a towel, around my carboy. On high, (on a
fairly low powered heating pad) I was able to maintain a very stable 74
degrees, which seems optimal for both brewing beer, or mead. I was
pleasantly surprised by how well it worked. Fermentation, both primary,
and secondary, was very vigorous, and continuous, until the available
sugars were used. Taste seems first rate.
Has anyone else used something similar to making Meade? (snip)
------------------------------
Subject: Off-gassing
From: Jim Johnston <jim@tervolk.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:47:14 -0600
On Feb 16, 2005, at 6:38 PM, mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
> I'm looking for some good, non-sulfide suggestions for how to offgas
> these bottles so I don't have to worry about them, or get overly drunk
> trying finish them off before they go pop... I've had one suggestion
> that a horse syringe and needle inserted between the cork and the glass
> to offgas it might help... but I have no idea of something like that is
> available to the public.
>
I had a batch of beer referment and overcarbonate in bottles once. I
chilled them in my spare refrigerator at the coldest setting, just
above freezing (putting them in an ice water brine might work even
better). Then I opened them partially, just enough to begin to hear
the CO2 escaping a little at a time until I thought it was safe to open
them. I then let them sit out at room temp with the caps just covering
them, and recapped them all a few hours later. They were a little
undercarbonated by then, but the flavor was fine. They will not
oxidize if there is a layer of CO2 over the liquid, so I think if you
never let them go completely flat you should be OK. I don't know if
you could release gas from under a cork the same way.
You might be able to get a large needle and syringe like this at a farm
supply place with a large enough vet supply area.
Cautions to think of:
1) Any carbonation strong enough to decork can turn a cork into a
projectile capable of injury. Eye protection is a must, Kevlar vest is
optional ( chain mail if you are SCA).
2) Open with the bottle facing away. If you do get a needle and
syringe, the off-loading gas can force the plunger out of the back of
the syringe, so it becomes a projectile. Same rules apply.
Good luck and let us know how it worked ( or your next of kin if
something went drastically wrong)
Jim
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1160, 16 February 2005
From: Steve Thompson <srthompson@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:39:29 -0500
<<Steve Ruch was saying Costco has clover honey at less than $10 for
6lbs. Is it a limited-time thing? Anyone checked somewhere else? By any
chance, would anyone know about similar prices in Canada (in the
2?3CAD/lbs. range)?
Been waiting for honey prices to go down... Does this mean part of the
supply problem is solved, at least for clover?>>
My local Costco carries 5# containers of Dutch Gold clover honey for
about $8.50. It ends up in a lot of my mead :)
Steve
------------------------------
Subject: Re: MLD #1160, 16/2/05, venting bottles, cheap honey, Artificial sweets
From: "Arthur Torrey (no spam please!)" <atorrey@cybercom.net>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:19:00 -0500
On 2005.02.16 19:38 mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Subject: Paradise Lost...
> From: "Mark A. Salowitz" <belg@pheonix.org>
> Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:24:02 -0500
>
> Well, if anyone remembers my recipe I sent out regarding "Heaven in a
> Glass", I'm going to have comment that now it's something more of
> "Paradise Lost". Over the holidays, a couple of my bottles have rather
> violently ejected their corks... as fermentation restarted in the
> bottles after some substantial time idle. Now, even my cool, 65 degree
> basement is no protection. I walked downstairs to find one of my bottles
> empty, the cork laying 20 feet away, and 3 bottles with at least 1/4"
> migration which are now in the refridgerator on it's coldest setting.
>
> I'm looking for some good, non-sulfide suggestions for how to offgas
> these bottles so I don't have to worry about them, or get overly drunk
> trying finish them off before they go pop... I've had one suggestion
> that a horse syringe and needle inserted between the cork and the glass
> to offgas it might help... but I have no idea of something like that is
> available to the public.
>
> Any ideas welcome, "been done before sucessfully" ones preferred. The
> mead is still AWESOME and I'd like to preserve it.
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Mark Salowitz
Never tried the syringe venting technique, but it might work. If you can't
get a medical needle (laws vary about how easy they are to get) you might try
going to a store that sells stuff for doing deep-fried turkeys and getting a
marinade injector. The needles have more holes, but they use a standard
syringe hub and look about like the size they stick you with when drawing
blood.
Alternatively, you might try uncorking, letting the mead breath and then
putting in a fresh cork.
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Cheap Honey?
> From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli@indiana.edu>
> Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:28:32 -0500
>
> Steve Ruch was saying Costco has clover honey at less than $10 for
> 6lbs. Is it a limited-time thing? Anyone checked somewhere else? By any
> chance, would anyone know about similar prices in Canada (in the
> 2?3CAD/lbs. range)?
>
> Been waiting for honey prices to go down... Does this mean part of the
> supply problem is solved, at least for clover?
Don't know for sure, but typically grocery store / warehouse honey is
imported, and has been very heavily processed (filtering, heating to high
temps, etc.) to the point where many people consider it closer to colored
sugar syrup than to raw honey. I would reccomend looking for a local
beekeeper willing to sell direct and in some volume. (Many are, as it reduces
the hassles and you save him the expense and headache of purchasing bottles,
packaging etc.) It may help if you can supply containers, and certainly a
bottle of your production will sweeten the deal!
At least this is what I found before I started 'growing my own'. (the best
though not the cheapest option) Going direct to the beekeeper should get you
about half the retail price of normal store honey because you both cut out all
the middle men and save the cost of the bottles (Honey containers are approx
U$D 1-1.50 each)
You will also get much better quality honey (as long as you don't mind the
random nature of 'wildflower' honey) since it will be much less processed, and
preserve the natural benefits of raw honey.
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Sweetening post-fermentation + bottle carbonation
> From: Jeremy Janzen <jeremy.jj@sasktel.net>
> Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:56:04 -0600
>
> Hi there. I'm making my first batch of mead in a few years. Its
> basically a modified version of the Barkshack Gingermead (which I've had
> great luck with years ago). The recipe is nearly identical, but with
> approx 10 pounds honey used, + 2 pounds of quartered limes steeped in
> the must, and then in the primary fermenter for the first week. I am
> planning to bottle carbonate it.
>
> Here is the problem/question: fermentation is slowing (now nearly 1
> month in, gravity of 1.000) and the mead is almost totally clear. As
> such, I tried a sample of the mead to test flavour. IMO it isn't sweet
> enough - I probably shouldn't have added acid, considering the limes
> (lesson learnt!). Anyway, I could sweeten it post-fermentation by
> sulfiting and then adding small amounts of honey to taste; except by
> sulfiting I will be killing yeast needed for bottle carbonation. And if
> I don't sulfite, I'll run the risk of overcarbonation and bottle bombs.
>
> I believe I read something in the digests about using an artificial
> sweetener to solve this problem - something yeast cannot convert to
> alcohol and c02. What I'm looking for is details about this process.
> Which sweeteners to use; baseline amounts to start with; general
> experiences with this type of post-fermentation artificial sweetening.
> Thanks so much!
>
> Jeremy
I was one of the persons asking about putting artificial sweeteners in mead.
The concensus response seemed to be Splenda / Sucralose, however be aware that
both the packets and boxes contain significant amounts of (fermentable?)
malto-dextrin as bulk filler. I'd also look at the herb Stevia (check your
vitamin store, the FDA has not approved for use as 'food' but is sold as a
'supplement' - this despite it's known use by American Indians for many
hundreds of years) However I'm not sure if stevia is fermentable or not, and
one must be cautious in using it as using too much can cause a bitter
aftertaste.
It is very difficult / expensive to get semi-pure sucralose because the
manufacturer does not seem to want to sell it except to food manufacturers,
and hassles anyone trying to resell the pure stuff. You MIGHT be able to get
some from <sweetzfree.com> who used to sell a super concentrated version (1/4
tsp = 1 cup sugar) but I'm not sure if they are still in business or not.
I was inqiring because my GF and I are on a low carb (Atkins) diet and I was
considering trying to make a low-carb mead (brew very dry, then add sucralose
to make it sweet) However thus far none of my meads have come out dry enough
to experiment with. Personally I've mostly given up on the idea, there are
some significant concerns about the effect of artificial sweeteners on people
who are low carbing, and I've found that the amounts I consume (which are
smaller than pre diet) don't seem to have a significant effect on me.
I've never experimented with sparkling meads, my technique has always been to
do an SG and taste measurement at each racking, and add small amounts of
additional honey (1 - 2 cups / 5 gal) until it stops fermenting (SG stable for
2 months+) at a sweetness I like.
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: newbie info needed
> From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy@bergsman.org>
> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:35:39 -0500
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm an experienced homebrewer trying to help a beekeeper friend start making
> mead. We live near New Haven CT. I'd appreciate two suggestions:
>
> 1) a good, simple first recipe
Either follow along here, or check <www.gotmead.com> lots of recipes in either
place. I'd be inclined to start with a cyser (apple cider based mead) as they
are about as foolproof as you can get, as well as being easy, fast and good
tasting.
> 2) where to get supplies. I have all the homebrewing-related stuff, but our
> one semi-local shop doesn't seem to have mead stuff. Either a local place
> we're missing or a good online place would be great.
There really isn't anything in the way of 'mead stuff' All you need is your
basic primary bucket fermenter, a few glass carboys, the standard brewing
tools, and your preferred bottling technology. Either start with a wine kit
minus the grape smashing stuff, or a beer kit with carboys but no grain
mashing equipment.
There are specific 'mead yeasts' but I've never had good luck with them. I
mostly use champagne yeasts, many others use wine or ale yeasts, see what your
recipes call for.
Your local shop should have everything you need if they have what you need for
either beer or wine making.
Good luck,
ART
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Book Review - "Robbing the Bees" by Holley Bishop
From: Galenflys@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:28:53 EST
I happened to get an 'Advance Reader's Edition' copy of this book, due in
bookstores in April, 2005. I hoped to get a little more insight on Mead, but
this is not so. Any reader of MLD knows more of the history of Mead than this
book offers, and there are no mead recipes at all.
What the book does well is to illustrate the joys and concerns of beekeeping
from a commercial viewpoint, or from a hobbyists perspective. The
commercial end is covered through the author's experience of following a
beekeeper
from the humid Florida panhandle; this part shows everyone the killer workload
necessary to harvest varietal honeys. I think that this portrayal is an
accurate one, and doesn't romanticize the process in an "earthy-crunchy" way.
The hobbyist's POV is based on the author's own Connecticut home experience.
"Robbing the Bees" is pretty well written. If you need a book to push you
over the edge into your own beekeeping efforts, it might do it for you. If
you want to persuade someone to grow honey for you, this may just do the
trick.
Galen Davis, Southwick, Mass
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cheap Honey
From: "Jones, Steve (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones@eastman.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:07:39 -0500
If you can buy a 5 gallon bucket (60 lbs) then Dutch Gold honey is one
place to go. They have 7 different varieties available right now
(Alfalfa, Buckwheat, Clover, Orange Blossom, wildflower, unprocessed
Clover, and Organic) that run from $88-100 per 60 lbs, which is right in
line with Costco's price on the 6lb highly processed honey. Their
processing is pretty basic - flash pasteurization, diatomaceous earth,
and filtering. You do have shipping costs (they are in PA, I'm in TN,
$21 per 5 gallons to ship via UPS) which are a bit higher than taxes,
but it still comes out less than 2 bucks a pound for me. And you can
shop online (http://www.dutchgoldhoney.com/store/).
Hope this helps,
Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN
State of Franklin Homebrewers (http://hbd.org/franklin)
------------------------------
Subject: Meads and Rudesheimer yeast
From: "david.lane " <david.lane@utahisp.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:05:56 -0700
It=92s been 3 weeks since I pitched a packet
of WYeast Rudesheimer yeast into a 6 gallon batch with
18 lbs of clover honey. It took a good 30 hours
for it to start going, but it=92s been steady since and
it=92s still going =96 perhaps a bubble every 5 seconds.
I=92ve decided to split the must into two carboys
(3 and 5 gallon) and make two different melomels:
5 gallon carboy:
4 gallons fermented must
.5 lb freeze-dried pineapples and 2 Tbsp Keemun tea
steeped in 1 gal water
1 French oak OakBoy stave
and
3 gallon carboy:
2 gallons fermented must
1 lbs freeze-dried persimmons and 2 Tbsp Keemun tea
steeped in 1 gal water
1 oz French oak chips
Peace
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1161
*******************************
