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Mead Lovers Digest #1107
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1107, 14 June 2004
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1107 14 June 2004
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Blueberries Blueberries (Dave Polaschek)
Re: let's bee a little more humble ("Paul Shouse")
Re: Residual Sweetnes with bottle carbonation? ("Paul Shouse")
Re: Ume mead ("Spencer W. Thomas")
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1106, 10 June 2004 (hillsofg)
Re: Residual Sweetnes with bottle carbonation? (Adam Funk)
RE: Residual Sweetnes with bottle carbonation? (Warren Place)
Re: 'Fresh' Honey ("Dan McFeeley")
Re: Blueberries (KDauer@aol.com)
Misc. ("Vince Galet")
mead vs. beer competitions (Jim Johnston)
Re: BJCP & Mead Thread ("Dan McFeeley")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Blueberries Blueberries
From: Dave Polaschek <davep@davespicks.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:17:00 -0500
Dick Dunn wrote:
> Another approach with blueberries, different in various ways but it works:
> First freeze them.
I agree with Dick 100% on this. Freeze the blueberries first, and you can
just dump the fruit into the primary. If you bag 'em, you can just wring
out the bag when the berries have gone pale-ish and you're done. If not,
scoop the berries out and squish 'em through a sieve to get the extra
juice out of them. You can either add that juice back to the fermenter,
or if you worry about infection, mix it with a little soda-water and have
yourself a spritzer.
As for time, I've never needed to leave the berries in the fermenter more
than a week. More than once I've gotten busy and left them up to a couple
months, with no major ill effects.
- -DaveP
- --
Dave Polaschek - http://betternerds.com/ http://davespicks.com/
In a way, staring into a computer screen is like staring into an
eclipse. It's brilliant and you don't realize the damage until
its too late. - Bruce Sterling
------------------------------
Subject: Re: let's bee a little more humble
From: "Paul Shouse" <paul_shouse@kmug.org>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:19:39 +0900
>just my 2 cents, take it or leave it.
>nostrovia!!!
>steve
Steve-
I'll take most of it. I'd be even happier to take a glass of mead with you!
Let me clarify (pun intended) my statements: I have been homebrewing for more
than 20 years, and brewing mead for nearly 6 years. The mead I have just put
under the floor is the first batch started after reading just a small fraction
of the MLD archives. I didn't join this group to preach, but to learn.
As far as 'cheating' is concerned, perhaps that word is a bit harsh. 'Cutting
corners' might be a better phrase to use. It's like dumping a box of corn
starch into a saccharifying grain mash, yes it works but it is not all-grain
brewing and I would never ever do it. Not more than three or four times,
anyway:-) My belief is that all chemical additives are ultimately
unnecessary, and that a perfected mead process will produce consistently
satisfying results without them. I don't know how that process works, but I am
willing to stay in the kitchen until I find it.
- -Paul
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Residual Sweetnes with bottle carbonation?
From: "Paul Shouse" <paul_shouse@kmug.org>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:52:54 +0900
> I would like to produce a lower alcohol (say 6-10% or so) mead and have it
> bottle carbonate with maximum residual sweetness. Is this possible? What
> yeast might accomplish this?
> I made a kiwi/strawberry mel last year with ec-1118 bottle
> carbonated, it is
> too dry for my liking.
> Regards,
> Chris
Chris-
The problem here is how to select a yeast that will produce the percentage of
alcohol you want, but still leave enough unmetabolized simple sugars to leave
a pleasant level of sweetness. Some sugars in honey are too complex to be
easily metabolized by yeast, although most strains will continue to try for a
long time. That's why most meads will turn just a little bit sparkley in the
bottle. The yeast you used, Lavlin EC-1118 is tolerant of high alcohol levels
and is a strong fermenter that will use every bit of available sugar before
going dormant. That's why I'm using it now to produce a strong dry melomel.
As to what yeast you should use, I have no idea, sorry. I am guessing that
what you are looking for is a liquid culture ale or lager yeast. Check the
major yeast supplier's websites (Wyeast for example) and find a yeast that is
listed as neutral in flavor and that will produce an alcohol level at or
slightly below what you want. Then, find the recommend original gravity for
that yeast and make your must accordingly. If that doesn't work, try a
different yeast or use less honey in the next batch. Let the must ferment
until it is clear and still, then bottle. Chances are the mead will carbonate
in the bottle, but at safe levels. Experiment. Have fun!
Enjoy!
- -Paul
One way to make sparkling mead which I haven't dared to try is to add a
quarter teaspoon of sugar to each bottle before sealing. It will either work
very well, or produce glass bombs. I can't recommend it, but if you try will
you (or your next-of-kin) please let me know how it turns out???
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Ume mead
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer@umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:08:28 -0400
Paul,
Don't let one curmudgeon spoil your day or drive you way. I don't know
what got under Steven Butcher's skin, but his response was way over the
top.
I, for one, enjoyed reading your note, and wish you the best in your
endeavor to produce an Ume Mead.
And yes, you can "brew" mead. For example, one definition of "brew" is
"drink prepared by steeping and boiling and fermenting rather than
distilling"
(http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn?stage=1&word=brew).
Sounds like the way many of us make mead.
And, no, it is NOT necessary (as you know) to pasteurize your mead.
Some of us prefer to do so, as we get a more consistent end result. But
as others have expressed in this forum, it does change the flavor
somewhat to do so.
I also learned something from your note: I did not know that Ume were
not plums.
=Spencer
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1106, 10 June 2004
From: hillsofg <hillsofg@netvision.net.il>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 06:05:29 +0200
I'm Miriam, an American/Israeli new to mead making. I've been lurking
for a few a little while but now feel encouraged (by Steve's message
below) to introduce myself.
Since I am probably one of maybe five people making mead in Israel, you
can see that there are no competitions nor ways of judging quality. All
of my mead education has come from the Net. This is very much a lonely
adventure, as there is no one around with whom to compare notes, so
these Internet exchanges are important to me! Also, there is no mead
yeast available, so I lean on one brand of champagne yeast.
I've made two batches: a lavender/rosemary metheglin now 4 months old,
and a vanilla metheglin made with avocado flower honey, 2 months old. I
plan to make one today where fresh "sweet" herbs contribute their
flavors (lemon balm, rose geranium, lemon verbena, basil). As I also
make fruit wine, I want to wait till the summer's wines are bottled and
out of their carboys before experimenting again with meads, because they
do tend to sit forever, occasionally bringing up a bubble just to remind
you that they're still active. My batches are usually 5 liters. Winter
melomels planned are cherry and strawberry, using fruit I froze this
week. I also bought some eucalyptus honey which I am curious about,
planning to make a 1-liter experimental batch of just honey, water and
yeast, at a 1:3 ratio.
I do find wine, and now mead-making a fun and rewarding hobby, and want
to keep it at that level. The most scientific I get is measuring the
S.G. at intervals, although I willingly absorb more information as I
read along, figuring that with time and experience I will be wanting to
put it to use. I'm glad there's room for the small on this list.
Shalom,
Miriam Kresh
www.hillsofgalilee.com
(big snip) ...i am glad you started meadmaking and you are passionate
about it. our numbers are small as opposed to homebrewers and
homevinters. just dont forget that this is a hobby that is suppose to be
fun and rewarding. its not rocket science and you will find there are
100+ ways to reach the same goal. try not to get to wrapped up in the
technical. there are no "cheaters" in this field. practices you see as
"flaws" may be what works for that particular individual. we dont live
in the napa valley or any wine region in france.(most of us anyway) we
dont have a large commercial meadery or a small exclusive operation that
charges $50 a bottle to the public and sit around sipping away with our
pinkies in the air talking about art. just maize, drink and be happy.
just my 2 cents, take it or leave it.
nostrovia!!!
steve
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Residual Sweetnes with bottle carbonation?
From: Adam Funk <adam.funk@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 07:46:55 +0100
> > I would like to produce a lower alcohol (say 6-10% or so) mead and
> > have it bottle carbonate with maximum residual sweetness. Is this
> > possible? What yeast might accomplish this?
> > I made a kiwi/strawberry mel last year with ec-1118 bottle
> > carbonated, it is
> > too dry for my liking.
...
> But other than these two methods, I'm unaware of any safe means to
> produce a bottle conditioned sweet mead. You'd have to have absolute
> confidence in your yeast to halt fermetation after producing enough CO2
> to carbonate, but before producing enough to be dangerous. There is
> too much risk for injury to make a guess like this.
One other possibility is to sweeten the mead with something that yeast
can't ferment, such as lactose (a sugar that occurs naturally in milk) or
artificial sweeteners. If you use lactose, pay close attention to
sanitation as lactobacillus can turn it into lactic acid. I've used
lactose successfully in winemaking a few times, but I haven't tried it in
mead.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Residual Sweetnes with bottle carbonation?
From: Warren Place <wrplace@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:06:22 -0700 (PDT)
> I would like to produce a lower alcohol (say 6-10% or so) mead and have it
> bottle carbonate with maximum residual sweetness. Is this possible? What
> yeast might accomplish this?
> I made a kiwi/strawberry mel last year with ec-1118 bottle carbonated, it is
> too dry for my liking.
> Regards,
> Chris
Add enough honey to get the desired alc%, ferment to dryness, add
Splenda (yeast won't ferment it) to taste and enough sugar for
carbonation. Bottle with crown caps. In a couple weeks your have a sweet
carbonated brew without the hassle of pasteurizing, sobates or
disgorgement. By far the easiest and gives great result as long as you
aren't offended by "artificial" sweeteners. They're all chemicals to me,
including sugar.
Warren Place
------------------------------
Subject: Re: 'Fresh' Honey
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 05:10:05 -0500
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, in MLD 1106, Joe Schuler wrote:
>I don't think this bit of trivia has any relevance to the discussion on
>freshness, but to put it in perspective here's a little FYI: I read that
>Honey has (unofficially) been named the only edible substance that
>will last 'forever'. Apparently, King Tut was buried with jars of honey
>among his many afterworld possessions. When the archaeologists
>were studying everything, they tasted the honey and deemed it still
> edible. That is what...seven thousand years? Unfortunately, that is
>all I remember of the article, and it didn't mention whether or not the
>honey was crystallized or liquid (liquid? Maybe it was tupelo
>honey ;-)
Thanks for the post -- not trying to be critical but I doubt the article
you mentioned was accurate. Although honey does not need
preservatives or refrigeration for storage, it doesn't last forever.
Over time it changes, darkening and losing flavor and aroma.
The shelf life for the delicate flavors and other nuances in honey
is about two years. Edith Crane mentions keeping a supply of
heather honey for about, I think, 20 years, but she also said it was
obvious that it had lost a great deal of its flavor and aroma. By
then she was using it for cooking purposes. Ancient artifacts
showing the use of honey are little more than residues left on
pottery shards. Archaeologists are able to identify the residues
as the remains of honey by studying the pollen grains left in the
residue.
A lot of the stories about edible honey surviving in Egyptian tombs
for thousands of years may have come from E.A. Wallis Budge
(1857 - 1934). Although he wrote a great deal, his works are
widely regarded by serious Egyptologists as terribly inaccurate
and misleading. The books are still popular -- you can find Budge
books on the shelves of major book stores or in mail order
catalogues.
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Blueberries
From: KDauer@aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:27:03 -0400
>Another approach with blueberries, different in various ways but it works:
>First freeze them. The freezing breaks cell walls and releases the juice
>somewhat
I freeze blueberries too and have had good luck. I pour the frozen berries
into a nylon stocking and knot the top of the stocking. Then I vacuum-seal
the whole thing using a "Foodsaver" vacuum sealer. As the berries thaw,
atmospheric pressure helps force the juice out, and shortly before I open
the bag, I knead it by hand to further extract the juice. Then I snip the
bag open and dump the whole mess into the primary fermenter.
------------------------------
Subject: Misc.
From: "Vince Galet" <vince@scubadiving.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:16:56 -0400 (EDT)
BJCP: my last words, promised.
Brian, you are tough. As I posted before I don't know which one is best:
fix the problem(s) or scrap the whole thing but I'm willing to give it a
try [to fix it] - call me optimistic, I think there is hope and I like to
include many diverse things in my range of activities without thinking
they are incompatible (but it's just me). I guess you and probably other
people chose the other alternative-probably because you think it's
hopeless, and I respect that choice too.
The debate could go on an on but I would hate for the digest to become a
BJCP endless argument. I think people will decide for themselves if they
want to be optimistic or pessimistic. Either way you chose, I would just
suggest some action consistent with that choice to keep mead alive.
Because either way, let's not forget we are both defending the same
interest: mead.
Low(er) alcohol mead and types of yeast:
My first mead making was with high performance yeasts (champage type). I
obtained very dry mead (sounds familiar)?
Of course you can sweeten, blend etc? but for philosophical reasons
(unless it's laziness) I've been trying to obtain the desired alcohol and
sweetness right off the batch (pun intended). Therefore I tried other
yeasts that were "rated" for a lower max alcohol content (and also
increased the amount of honey in the batch) to end up with the alcohol and
sweetness I wanted. This involves a bit of trial and error but eventually
it worked to my liking. The alcohol rating is a ballpark and your mileage
may vary but if you want 8% alcohol, you are more likely to obtain it with
a yeast that is supposed to give 8% than with a yeast rated 18% (at least
you would need less adjustements). A brewer-meadmaker from around here (a
double-agent like me) won the club mead-only competition (yes, partially
using icinoclast beer judges. Nothing's perfect) with a superb cyser (I
had an opportunity to taste it) fermented with ale yeast. I assume he
didn't have to adjust much at the end, given the type of yeast.
One thing to consider is the taste that your yeast will impart on the
mead. I know I will sound heretic, but I'm not fond of the Wyeast mead
yeasts (even though I use them exclusively for beer). I like wine yeasts
better (Lalvin or red star), usually with a rating around 14%. Champagne
yeast is clean and goes very well with orange blossom honey but it will
always get dry (unless you load up with honey, but then you risk fusels
etc?) and you better age that mead because champagne-type fermentations
automatically need aging (in my experience)--BTW, "real" champagne is
always fermented for a minimum of 3 years. Maybe this is related. Note
that aging "mellows" the finished product and brings (good) surprises.
I'm still experimenting with a new yeast once in a while just to see if I
like it. My recommendation is to use a strain that aims for your desired %
alcohol--at least you will not be too far- Consider the temp range (my
basement temp varies winter to summer - don't want to get stuck) and try
several strains for the taste. The latter is often forgotten.
If you don't have what you wanted, it's not so bad, you can always adjust
and/or blend.
Blueberries:
I puree. I don't use a bag (don't like bags - I go for maximum contact).
Just dump it all. It works not bad for blueberries but I had a hell of a
time with raspberries (muddy silt that didn't want to compact at bottom
and clogged any filtering system I tried). Last year I put my blueberry
puree in the secondary containing 12-14% (approx - not measured) mead, I
obtained a big blueberry "gel" disc floating on the surface. I don't know
if this is because of the effect alcohol on the pectin, but I had to break
the gel (to increase contact) then it was easy to remove (clumps). The
resulting mead was pretty good, lots of BB character. I will try to do the
same this year (with luck - I don't actually know what caused it)
Must:
I tried to mix honey with cold water. It's like mixing play doh in water.
Pretty hard. Therefore I pasteurize (155 deg). I don't think the temp
really damages the honey, but I don't think that the cold method would
provide a bad (infected) fermentation either, especially with a good
pitch. I would try it if I had a better way to mix the damn thing. How do
you [cold mixers] do it?
Mead on,
Vince
------------------------------
Subject: mead vs. beer competitions
From: Jim Johnston <jim@tervolk.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:37:55 -0500
So to continue this thread, I need to put my 2 cents worth in again.
Many of us came to making mead from homebrewing. My third batch ever
was a mead, and I average about 3-4 beers made per mead. I also
average a couple of wines per year, mostly country wines. I don't call
myself a snob in any area, I feel I am still learning about all of
these areas and will continue to do so for the rest of my life. That
is the fun part, learning the subtle nuances, making mistakes and
learning from them, etc. I am always fascinated with the history
involved as well (thanks Dan, your posts are great).
I am afraid that if we become too focused on isolating ourselves from
the other areas of fermentation, we will be labeled as "snobs" much
like the wine people who turn their noses up at tastings ( "eew, I
don't like mead" ). If we tear away from the BJCP, we will severely
limit the number of tastings available to us, as well as losing out on
the valuable opportunity to educate others in the art of mead. I would
rather see us involved in both beer and wine tastings, become certified
more as judges and use those opportunities to promote good meadmaking
as well as educate other judges and the public as well.
My rant for today. Take it for the 2 cents it was worth.
Jim
------------------------------
Subject: Re: BJCP & Mead Thread
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:07:44 -0500
Just a few tangential thoughts on this thread -- granted
that many brewers also make meads and ciders, however,
since that's the case why aren't brewing publications
giving more attention to these areas? It's good that the
AHA promotes an annual meadmaking day, but it would
be even better if publications like Zymurgy would put out
articles from time to time to help inform the brewer who
also enjoys making and consuming meads and ciders.
This would be a good thing -- it would give attention to
the fact that many brewers are well rounded people with
a lot of diverse interests. The publishing format would
shift from an informational publication for brewers to
something more attuned to brewer's lifestyles.
There's nothing lacking for topics. A browse through the
Cider Digest and Mead Lovers Digest would turn up
more than enough material. And, the coverage would
help improve BJCP judging and judging of meads and
ciders at brewing competitions.
BTW -- two digests in one day! That's never happened
before!
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1107
*******************************
