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Mead Lovers Digest #1052
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: mead@talisman.com
To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1052, 20 October 2003
Mead Lover's Digest #1052 20 October 2003
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Stuck Mead ("Marty")
Re: Racking (Mead Lover's Digest #1051, 16 October 2003) ("Stephen Murphrey")
Re: High OG problems (Mead Lover's Digest #1051, 16 October 2003) ("Stephe...)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1051, 16 October 2003 (Ken Vale)
Glycerin, PTE, misc comments. ("Vince Galet")
Re: Racking ("Ken Taborek")
on cider pressing cloths (CircusGimp@aol.com)
Sweetening, Racking and The Fest (Ken Schramm)
Fw: Response: High OG problems.... ("M.M.Meleen")
Re: High OG problems.... ("Ken Taborek")
Re:High OG problems ("Lane Gray, Czar Castic")
Refusnic Fallout ("John Copeland")
Cyser (Kris Miller)
Bulk ageing vs bottle ageing and Lees and off flavors (MLD# 1050) ("jim po...)
Micro-oxygenation of tannic meads ("jim potts")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Stuck Mead
From: "Marty" <martyc@megagate.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:36:22 -0500
Hi All
First I would like to say that this is my first year making mead. I have 5
batches going and don't even know if I will like the taste of it. LOL. I
hope the flavor at 5 months of age is not reflective of the final flavor, if
so I am afraid I have wasted a lot of time and money but anyway to my
problem.
I have a traditional mead I started on June 6, 03. Here is what I did: Added
9# of wildflower honey, 1 tsp Grape Tannin, 1 tsp Citric Acid and 5 tsp
Yeast Nutrient. Heated Honey and 1 gal water and before mentioned
ingredients to 170 and held for 20 mins. Top off carboy to 3 gallons cooled
to 80 degrees and pitched tube of yeast(White Labs sweet mead yeast). Shook
well. The fermentation started slowly and continued for about 3 weeks. It
was never what I would call fast and furious just steady bubbles. Racked on
10-15-03. The gravity was 1.032 and the mead tasted sweet and somewhat
alcoholic. It still has not cleared yet.
The fermentation was at 70 - 72 degrees. There has been no activity in the
airlock in several months. The ph is 3.6 plus or minus .2 according to test
paper. About 2 months ago I added yeast nutrient and pitched montrachet
yeast which did not restart the fermentation. I could tell no difference in
the airlock.
So my question is this: Is this mead stuck or is it finished and just needs
to age and clear?
Thanks
Marty
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Racking (Mead Lover's Digest #1051, 16 October 2003)
From: "Stephen Murphrey" <swmurph@attglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:18:57 -0400
> Hi Again. I have made my first mead. It really is a friut melomel, at least
> that is what the recipe says. I got the recipe off the internet. I also got
> the book The Compleat Meadmaker, but I'm still a little confused. I am
> suppose to rack after 3 weeks but it is still bubbling. Do I rack it or do
> I wait till it stops bubbling? Help!
> Thank you Venus
Do not rack now. Wait (at least) until it stops bubbling. There's no
reason to be in a hurry to rack.
Steve Murphrey
------------------------------
Subject: Re: High OG problems (Mead Lover's Digest #1051, 16 October 2003)
From: "Stephen Murphrey" <swmurph@attglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:24:53 -0400
> After cooling everything appropriately and pitching some Wyeast 3347,
> nothing.. zilch... nada. It's been 4 days now and there is no activity
> at all in the airlock. I've tried nutrient, energizer, and aeration...
> still nothing.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions on perhaps how to convince this batch to
> start up without obscure voodoo rituals involving chickens?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Salowitz
It sounds like your pH is too low. Measure your pH (the cheap paper strips
from your homebrew shop are sufficiently accurate). If it is low, add
enough Calcium Carbonate to bring it up to about 4.0. Your fermentation
will start in a day or 2.
Steve Murphrey
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1051, 16 October 2003
From: Ken Vale <kenvale@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:35:03 -0400
mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
> (This is why basket presses are inefficient: the juice from the center
> of the mass can't find its way out as the pulp is compressed around it.)
>
>- ---
>Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
>
>
What other types of presses are there? I'll admit to being mostly
clueless about presses.
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Glycerin, PTE, misc comments.
From: "Vince Galet" <vince@scubadiving.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:37:29 -0400 (EDT)
Charles asked about glycerine:
Even though I read myself that glycerine can change the body/feel, I would
be cautious about it: It is an alcohol that you could almost call a fusel
alcohol (not chemically exact but close), and the fact is that it
increases the alcohol sensation and it has a pretty strong "warming"
feeling. Maybe this is not vey relevant in small quantities but if you use
too small quantities you may not obtain the mouthfeel either. Also, people
avoid fusels like the plague so if you are one of them you may stay away
from glycerin as well. [Side comment, did you know that whiskey has around
2 grams fusels/liter? - they get concentrated by distillation]. I'd rather
use maltodextrin to obtain the thicker mouthfeel you are looking for. A
ballpark quantity would be around 1/2lb for 5 gal. but it depends a lot on
your starting mead and personal taste (you may have to go up to 1lb/5gal).
To make sure this is what you want, you can experiment with a small
quantity of mead and a small quantity of dextrin, see how you like it.
Venus asked about fermentation completion: wait until there are no more
bubbles and you have some sediment in the bottom before you rack. The goal
is to leave sediment behind.
Update about PTE: I mentioned a few months ago that I tried fermenting in
(food grade) PTE and I promised an update, so here it is: I got a
medium-paced but steady fermentation using ICD47 at 65F (about
3-3.25lb/gal w/ nutrients) and I obtained some of the best mead I ever
made, with a very well preserved honey character.
I read that some wineries slow down the fermentation to avoid scrubbing
the flavors with CO2, maybe this is what happened here. The fermentation
was slower than usual, and it may have improved the honey taste.
More importantly, I didn't detect any off-flavors after 4 months in PTE. I
removed the mead after 4 months because I made melomel, adding fruits in
the secondary. Last month I made another batch that will remain longer in
the PTE fermenter because it will be plain mead. I'll take it out only to
bottle it. I'll give you another update after a longer time in PTE but I'm
confident that it will be just fine.
Mark with the monster OG: your OG may be just too high. I'd try to dilute it
Looking forward to the next digest
Vince
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Racking
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 03:35:56 -0400
> Hi Again. I have made my first mead. It really is a friut
> melomel, at least
> that is what the recipe says. I got the recipe off the internet.
> I also got
> the book The Compleat Meadmaker, but I'm still a little confused. I am
> suppose to rack after 3 weeks but it is still bubbling. Do I
> rack it or do
> I wait till it stops bubbling? Help!
> Thank you Venus
Venus,
You've run up against the limitations of any set of mead making instructions
that uses set time periods as landmarks, as opposed to what's happening with
your mead. Some folks say their mead takes four months (or longer!) to
finish fermenting. My meads seem to finish well under a month. Given this
range, how can a set of instructions that directs you to rack at three weeks
hope to cover the range of mead behaviors?
The rule of thumb I use is, the initial racking should come some time after
the airlock slows to 1 pulse per minute or so. And letting it go until you
don't see the airlock pulsing at all will cause your mead no harm.
- --
Regards,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: on cider pressing cloths
From: CircusGimp@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:36:59 EDT
Hey good info there..
Yes,,Im sure that my $2.00 homemade pressing bags and my 75 yr old, twin
basket cider press are inefficiant,,,as well as my over-all apple squeezing
techniques.
I do know that i get an average of 2 and a half gallons per bushell. I
sweat my apples for a week or two. I have my mate stand on the opposite end of
the press and i use a 4 foot piece of pipe to really put the squeeze on the
pulp. I torque on it until i hear the press pop and crack with protest,,,
then i wait for about 10 minutes and give it another turn or so. This year
before i squeezed any apples, i flipped her over and replaced the 4x4 that
takes all the pressure.
My pressing bags do get a few small holes in them over the course of the
apple season,,,,, i just ignore them and keep squeezin.... and throw them away
when its all over. To make up for any inefficiencies i simply squeeze a few
more apples,,,usually the free ones that i come across..
I had no idea you could get pressing bags for $7.50. I ran across some one
time from a place called Leeman's Hardware,,,, they were like $25.00 as i
recall. I just stuck to my homemade ones..But $7.50 changes things....
Thanks for that tip though! ill keep checking around.
They who control the cyser control the universe.
- -Scott
------------------------------
Subject: Sweetening, Racking and The Fest
From: Ken Schramm <schramk@mail.resa.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:13:06 -0400
Great Edition of the Digest!
David Craft's question on sweetening: I add .5 tsp. of Potassium Sorbate
per gallon, generally a day before bottling. Then when I bottle or keg,
I add honey to taste, sometimes as much as 3 lbs per 5 gallon batch,
depending on the acidity and tannin levels of the finished mead. Works
like a charm.
I agree with Ken T. on the racking, and Venus, you can rack while
fermentation is still active or wait until the bubbling slows. I'd be
tempted to wait a few more days or even a couple of weeks. You'll get
more fruit character. Don't sweat it too much. If you've got an
aggressive fermentation going, you'll be fine.
It sounds like the Int'l Mead Fest is going to be a big blast, and I'd
encourage anyone who can possibly attend to make the trip.
Ken Schramm
Troy, MI
27.5 bushels of apples,
101 gallons of pressed juice last weekend.
Life is great.
------------------------------
Subject: Fw: Response: High OG problems....
From: "M.M.Meleen" <mmeleen@tiac.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:32:34 -0400
Hi Mark,
Regarding your post in Digest #1051in which you wrote the following:=20
Subject: High OG problems....
From: "Mark A. Salowitz" <belg@pheonix.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:12:03 -0400
Hi folks,
I'm currently attempting to ferment a batch of rather high OG "mead"
which was passed on from a nice family recipe... and fermentation is not
taking off at all. Basic recipe involves 13 pounds honey, 12 pounds
brown sugar, lemon juice, cold black tea, and some lemon, orange peel,
ginger, and clove to flavor and spice (while heating the must only).
The OG when I started was a whopping 1.174@76F.
After cooling everything appropriately and pitching some Wyeast 3347,
nothing.. zilch... nada. It's been 4 days now and there is no activity
at all in the airlock. I've tried nutrient, energizer, and aeration...
still nothing.
Anyone have any suggestions on perhaps how to convince this batch to
start up without obscure voodoo rituals involving chickens?
Thanks,
Mark Salowitz
This is a very high gravity indeed, you may have to dilute it. But, you could
try:
1) adding two or three times the usual amount of yeast, or
2) make a healthy starter and combine it a little at a time, or
3) You could also try switching to Lalvin EC-1118 which is pretty
tolerant of high OG's, and
4) Also make sure your temperature where it is kept is at around 75.
Otherwise , if even aeration isn't helping (try whipping it up in a
blender or shaking portions of it in a jar), you will probably have to
try dilution.
(Verbal encouragement of the yeast never hurts either!)
Hope this helps, good luck!
Melissa
------------------------------
Subject: Re: High OG problems....
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek@verizon.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:08:58 -0400
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm currently attempting to ferment a batch of rather high OG "mead"
> which was passed on from a nice family recipe... and fermentation is not
> taking off at all. Basic recipe involves 13 pounds honey, 12 pounds
> brown sugar, lemon juice, cold black tea, and some lemon, orange peel,
> ginger, and clove to flavor and spice (while heating the must only).
>
> The OG when I started was a whopping 1.174@76F.
>
> After cooling everything appropriately and pitching some Wyeast 3347,
> nothing.. zilch... nada. It's been 4 days now and there is no activity
> at all in the airlock. I've tried nutrient, energizer, and aeration...
> still nothing.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions on perhaps how to convince this batch to
> start up without obscure voodoo rituals involving chickens?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Salowitz
Mark,
You don't mention what your total volume was, but if it's manageably small,
you might try diluting the must until you reach a gravity a little easier to
work with. If it's a 5 gallon batch, adding a gallon of water should take
it into a range your yeast may thrive in, and will still give you a very
high alcohol content mead. Your flavorings won't be weakened much by this
tactic, and you may always spice it back to your taste.
If you are striving to follow the family recipe, then you should make a
large starter with your yeast, and add the yeast slurry to your mead. For a
mead of this extreme gravity, a gallon starter of a higher than normal
gravity (say, 1.060) may not be out of order. Pitch most of the slurry, and
re-build the starter with water and some of your mead to raise the gravity.
Aerate several times a day for the first few days, and continue adding yeast
as your starter works.
For any future batches made to this recipe, you might have better luck
withholding a third part of the total sugars, and adding them in in stages
after the gravity drops.
- --
Cheers,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Re:High OG problems
From: "Lane Gray, Czar Castic" <CGray2@kc.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:38:44 -0700
Mark Salowitz wrote:
> I'm currently attempting to ferment a batch of rather high OG "mead"
> which was passed on from a nice family recipe... and fermentation is not
> taking off at all. Basic recipe involves 13 pounds honey, 12 pounds
> brown sugar, lemon juice, cold black tea, and some lemon, orange peel,
> ginger, and clove to flavor and spice (while heating the must only).
>
> The OG when I started was a whopping 1.174@76F.
>
> After cooling everything appropriately and pitching some Wyeast 3347,
> nothing.. zilch... nada. It's been 4 days now and there is no activity
> at all in the airlock. I've tried nutrient, energizer, and aeration...
> still nothing.
>
> Anyone have any suggestions on perhaps how to convince this batch to
> start up without obscure voodoo rituals involving chickens?
>
Dilute it with water until you get down somewhere below (Oh, I don't know,
just choosing a number, don't remember what the max tolerance for the
yeast is) about 1.125 and try pitching again. My first cyser experiment
had the same problem, but not as bad (I think it was 1.150), and I ended
up diluting it to almost double the batch size (poor me, I was *forced* to
buy another carboy).
Next time you make the recipe, I'd decide whether you want the honey or
brown sugar to be more prominent, and add only the other one at the start
and the one you want to be more prominent at first racking. Or add 6.5#
honey and 6# brown sugar at the start, and the remainder at first racking.
- --
Lane Gray
Yes, I'm a minion of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial
------------------------------
Subject: Refusnic Fallout
From: "John Copeland" <JohnCopeland222@msn.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:09:37 -0400
I started my first batch of mead in the beginning of August, its
October now and I have yet to siphon it out. I have yet to do so
because I am waiting for the last of my fruit to settle to the bottom,
but it wont. I started the batch, after sterilizing everything, with
about 4.5 gallons of water and 15 Lbs. of honey, I added a clove, some
cinnamon sticks, some hand squeezed orange juice (for nutrients) and
about 20 cherries (for flavor). Before adding all of the extra items to
the honey, water, and yeast I boiled all the fruits and the clove
together to insure they contained no bacteria. And now half of the way
through its third month the cherries have yet to fall-out to the bottom.
Should I just siphon it out with the cherries still floating? And for
my final question, when I do siphon the good liquid out should I
refrigerate it during the aging process (I spoke with an owner of a
micro-brewery and he told me to refrigerate during aging.) ?
Thanks,
John Copeland
------------------------------
Subject: Cyser
From: Kris Miller <incompleatmeadmaker@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:11:56 -0700 (PDT)
I made Ken Schramm's Fall Bounty Cyser (go buy his
book, it's great)?this week?and have a couple of
questions.
?
Approximately how long in the primary?
Approximately how long in the secondary?
How soon after bottling will it be drinkable?
?
My O.G. was 1.110.
?
It looks and smells great!
?
The incompleatmeadmaker@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Subject: Bulk ageing vs bottle ageing and Lees and off flavors (MLD# 1050)
From: "jim potts" <jlp765@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:14:10 +1000
Josh,
>1. Bulk aging vs Bottle aging, what are the pros and cons of each? Right
>now I do almost exclusively bulk aging, but the more I think about it, the
>more I think that bottle aging may be just as good. Has anyone ever tried
>specific tests either way? Are there specific bennefits to one or the
>other?
Bulk aging is supposedly quicker, and reduces the sediment in the bottom
of your bottle assuming you rack before bottling the bulk-aged mead.
As to flavour differences, I'm waiting to compare the difference between
a few 3 Litre batchs (is that bulk? aging) versus some bottles of the same
Plum wine (honey is too expensive at the moment for experimentation :-)
>2. Lees and off flavors. I have heard and read many times that not
>racking your mead from time to time to get it off the lees can produce off
>flavors in the mead. This is going to sound odd but, has anyone ever had
>this happen to them? The more I think about it the more I wonder if it is
>truly something to be concerned about. I currently rack every two months,
>how often is truly necessary to avoid off flavors?
For a non-tannin light coloured mead, I would avoid the lees, but for
something with lots of tannin, I find the lees (and batonnage - fancy french
word for stirring up the lees) help to get extra "reactions" happening.
I don't know whether it is fermentation, or the release of CO2, but it
can keep generating bubbles from the lees (or so it seems) for a good
month beyond when a tannin-free version of the same mead has settled down.
Anyone else had similar experiences or otherwise?
Regarding off-flavours, (from my limited experience) no it didn't introduce
off flavours, but I would expect it to take longer to mature than a non
"sur lie" mead. I've come to expect a BIG change in flavour after the
mead starts to clarify. By stirring up the lees, I then expect to wait
a bit longer for clarification (I haven't done any fining yet - let it
naturally clarify) and hence for the flavour to settle - sort of like
waiting a month after bottling to avoid "bottle shock".
Is it something to be concerned about? Hey, its nothing another year of
aging won't improve :-)
Cheers
James
------------------------------
Subject: Micro-oxygenation of tannic meads
From: "jim potts" <jlp765@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:27:34 +1000
For the non-purists,
>From http://www.beveragebusiness.com/art98/nesto1201.html
"Micro-oxygenation, however, is the regulated dosing of wine by a
diffuser, a steel tube containing a microporous ceramic tube. The diffuser
produces a steady stream of tiny bubbles which are rapidly dispersed into
the wine in controlled doses."
Has anyone come across this and tried it on mead, to make a heavily tannic
mead drinkable more quickly (cut down the aging period).
It sounds like pumping/recirculating the must through a sterilized fish tank
air-stone, and somehow adding a tiny amount of oxygen to the pumped must.
Batonnage (stirring the lees) could do this if the headroom in the carboy is
so small that there is very little oxygen to be mixed with each stirring
(except there is no "micro bubbles" mechanism).
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Cheers
James
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1052
*******************************
