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Mead Lovers Digest #1044
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
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To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1044, 17 September 2003
Mead Lover's Digest #1044 17 September 2003
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Honey Varieties ("Jim Barnhart")
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1043, 12 September 2003 ("Jim Barnhart")
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1043, 12 September 2003 ("Jim Barnhart")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1043, 12 September 2003 (Ken Vale)
(Grant Mullins)
A Fortnight of Yeast ("Dan McFeeley")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1043, 12 September 2003 Decanting and Bicarbon ("...)
More Prickly Pear Mead info ()
San Diego Mead Festival ("Greg Lorton")
apples/juice for cyser (Dick Dunn)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
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Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Honey Varieties
From: "Jim Barnhart" <jimmydo2@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:09:30 -0700
Upon checking my Varieties of Mead that are sitting in the Carboy, I
realized that I do not have and straight meads going.
I figure it is about time to buy some bulk Honey anyhow.
My Local supplier has the Usual: Orange, California Buckwheat, Eucalyptus,
Tupelo, Alfalfa, , Organic Canadian Clover, and Wildflower
Although some of these sound interesting (California Buckwheat, and the
Eucalyptus)
There were two others that caught my Eye, (Sage and Avocado)
I was wondering if anyone has used either of these for a Straight Mead?
I thought The sage might make a nice light Drink if I can keep the alcohol
content down, otherwise it sounds like it would make a nice base for a
Watermelon, Vanilla, Chocolate or Rose mead.
The avocado just sounds like it might make a more unique mead.
I was wondering if anyone has tried either of these honeys
>From The Web Site...
"Sage honey can come from different plant species. The shrubs usually grow
along the California coast and in the Sierra Nevada. Sage honey is a top
grade honey with a mild delicate flavor. It is generally white or water
white in color. Sage honey is one of the most famous honeys in the western
United States and is known never to granulate."
"Avocado honey is hard to find, because most beekeepers work the Orange
trees, which bloom at the same time. Avocado honey is Amber in color and
has an almost molasses like flavor. It is unique and delicious!"
Jim Barnhart
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1043, 12 September 2003
From: "Jim Barnhart" <jimmydo2@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:27:00 -0700
Hi Angela:
Regarding your last Post:
"Web Winery did a batch of P.P. Wine. When THEIR customers starting
getting sick and some even HOSPITALIZED!!! The University of AZ tested
the wine to try to figure it out. They discovered that when Prickly
Pear fruit is converted to alcohol, it changes in a way that causes
sensitive people to have a major histamine reaction! It nearly Killed 3
people before the recall was sounded!"
I have been trying to find any info on this to determine if I should just
throw out the PP Must now, or just put a Healthy Warning on it.
Unfortunately I have been unable to find any contact info for "Web Winery"
This sounds almost like a Sulfate Reaction, and am wondering if perhaps the
Prickly Pears are creating Sulfates when they ferment. (I do not use Camden
Tablets due to my Allergies to sulfates)
Is there an easy way to test for sulfates in the finished product?
Jim
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1043, 12 September 2003
From: "Jim Barnhart" <jimmydo2@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:50:41 -0700
OK So maybe I should have read the whole Digest prior to responding, and
then made one response instead of Three.
OudBruin Wrote
"If you use fresh apples, do 3 things,
1 pasteurise the apples,
2) use lots of pectin emzyme
3) suggest that you completely mash the apples -
4) keep in mind the seeds are a source for B-17( cyno-co-balamine, a form of
cynade), a little goes a long way...
5) brew happy."
I was wondering what you meant by "Pasteurize" the apples. I have always
looked for unpastureized cider when I make hard Cider (The local apple
Orchard, sets aside some un pasturized unfiltered cider for me each year)
I do heat this to 170 (Heat pasturization), is this the tipe of
Pasturization you do to the apples?
Jim
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1042, 8 September 2003
From: OudBruin@aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:58:08 EDT
In a message dated 9/8/03 22:09:35, "Michael" <novelguy@myway.com> writes:
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:22:50 -0400 (EDT)
Hi Dick,
I've been reading and rereading your journal and finding it inspirational.
One question springs to mind regarding making cyser:
Is it possible to make cyser using fresh apples instead of juice or cider?
It's coming up on apple season here in my neck of the woods, and there's
a good harvest to come. I like using fresh ingredients anyway, and the
honeycrisp apples promise to be outstanding this year.
Thanks, >>
If you use fresh apples, do 3 things,
1 pasteurise the apples,
2) use lots of pectin emzyme
3) suggest that you completely mash the apples -
4) keep in mind the seeds are a source for B-17( cyno-co-balamine, a form of
cynade), a little goes a long way...
5) brew happy...
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1043, 12 September 2003
From: Ken Vale <kenvale@rogers.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:21:29 -0400
mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
>
>Robert Berthold, at Delaware Valley College, did some research on the use
>of bee pollen as a nutrient source in meadmaking and published the results
>in the American Bee Journal. He recommended 5 tablespoons per gallon.
>
Ok that is not exactly true, he says "We have not experimented
extensively with the quantity of pollen used in a batch but have used
about five tablespoons per gallon each time." In otherwords he uses
pollen to replace the nutrients, but hasn't bothered to figure out how
much he should use. 5 Tablespoons of pollen per gallon seems like a
rediculous amount of pollen to be adding, even 5 Teaspoons per gallon
seems like way to much (especially when yeast nutrients, the things they
are replacing, recommend 1/2 teaspoon per gallon). I don't doubt that
pollen is an excellent source of nutrients for Mead, I just like to see
someone do some research into just how much should be added. Besides
Pollen isn't that cheap...
Ken
------------------------------
Subject:
From: Grant Mullins <gmullins@masonbruce.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:26:12 -0700
Greetings all,
I am still pretty new to mead making and have been perusing the archives
for some time now. Not too long ago I ran across an issue of the MLD from
92, I think, that was a recipe edition. Being a beginner, I am always
interested in new recipes as well as other folks brew logs. I think an
edition of the MLD devoted to favorite recipes and brew logs would be
priceless. Surely I am not alone here. Dick, is this something that could
happen?
Also, I met a beekeeper a couple of weeks ago who had Carrot Honey. Has
anyone had any experience with this? I tasted it and it was really good,
darker than wildflower lighter than buckwheat.
Thanks to you all.
Cheers,
Grant
------------------------------
Subject: A Fortnight of Yeast
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:30:17 -0500
For those who missed it, Dr. Clayton Cone was a recent guest
on the Homebrewers Digest to answer questions on yeast and
fermentation. A lot of good discussion was held with many
thanks to Dr. Cone afterwards. Rob Moline was able to compile
the posts and made them available at:
http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/fortnightyeast.html
or go to www.lallemand.com , click on "Brewing," then "Homebrewing,"
then "Fortnight Of Yeast."
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1043, 12 September 2003 Decanting and Bicarbon
From: "Stephen Murphrey" <swmurph@attglobal.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 15:59:58 -0400
> I have two questions:
> 1. I have several meads that have matured nicely in bottles (up to 2 years)
> and would love to see what some judges think by entering them in contests. The
> problem is that I had to bottle before they were completely clear (long
> story) and don't want to send two 750 ml bottles when I can get away with
> two 12-oz beer bottles (they're all still meads). I'm trying to figure
> out how to get the mead from the big bottles , leave the sediment behind,
> and fill the 12 oz ones.
>
> My question is, has anyone ever decanted from a larger bottle, say a 1liter
> magnum, and then filled up smaller bottles? Will this cause oxidation?
> How long will it take to get over bottle shock #2? Any advice would be
> appreciated
>
I decant every mead that I enter in a contest. I decant into a pitcher and
then pour into the new sterilized bottles. There are 2 big advantages to
this: (1) There's no danger of the contest organizers jostling the bottles
and mixing the sediment and the mead, which would be a big negative in your
score; and (2) I get to drink what won't fit into the contest bottles. I
think this probably does cause some oxidation, especially since I am
probably careless about splashing. But I never received a score sheet that
mentioned oxidation, and I haven't ever detected any oxidation myself. I
typically rebottle at the last minute, no more than 2 weeks prior to
judging, and frequently the evening before judging (most North Carolina
competitions allow hand carrying of preregistered entries the day of the
competition). I leave very little head space. My advice: DECANT!
>
> 2. I would love input on the use of Sodium Bicarbonate to decrease acidity of
> a batch. I misread the first acid test in a recent batch, added WAY too much
> acid blend (that I'll never use again, only use tartaric acid from here on!)
> and now have to back the TA down a bit cause she's a wee tart, but I understand
> that you shouldn't try for more than a .3 drop ( I guess the bicarbonate
> gives off flavors in higher doses?). Should I add this stuff , then rack
> on top of it, then rack a few weeks later? How much does it titrate out?
>
I would be reluctant to use anything containing sodium. I am not a chemist,
and I have no scientific or empirical reasons for that decision. I use
calcium carbonate in sufficient quantity to raise the pH to be between 3.8
and 4.0 (as measured via litmus paper). I do it incrementally (add, mix,
then measure) to avoid overshooting.
Steve Murphrey
------------------------------
Subject: More Prickly Pear Mead info
From: <gduncan2@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:48:18 -0700
After trying to find good source material for Jim,
One of my local brew club members came up with a book written by Charlie
Papazine (he call it "NJOHB"?) that says that the prickly pear juice
must be boiled for a few hours to break down something in it before
fermenting it. (he couldn't remember what had to be broken down...)
So does anyone know of this book? Can they post a more accurate quote?
I did NOT boil my pears at all! (it changes the color) I froze them to
extract the juice.
So *If* Web Winery either froze or pressed their p. pears, then only
heated up their juice enough to pasteurize it, maybe that was what made
so many of their customers get sick!
I will continue my research....
Angela
------------------------------
Subject: San Diego Mead Festival
From: "Greg Lorton" <glorton@cts.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:43:39 -0700
For those home meadmakers with a competitive side, the first ever San
Diego Mead Festival will be held on Saturday, November 8. This is a
competition for meads only (plus braggot), and is open to home
meadmakers only. (Entries from commercial meadmakers are fine if the
entries were made at home.) Although the competition is not open to
spectators and the public, we are looking for stewards and judges. (We
expect that most if not all of the judges will be BJCP registered.)
The entry fee is $5 per entry, and two bottles should be submitted to be
received between October 6 and October 31 at AleSmith Brewing Company,
9368 Cabot Drive, San Diego, CA 92126. We expect that judging will take
place at AleSmith.
We will be judging meads in five categories - traditional mead, melomel,
braggot, metheglin, and specialty mead. Details, including rules,
category and subcategory guidelines, entry information, and entry forms
and bottle labels are available at www.quaff.org/sdmeadfest2003. For
more info, contact me at glorton@cts.com.
Cheers
Greg Lorton
San Diego Mead Festival
------------------------------
Subject: apples/juice for cyser
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:26:56 -0600 (MDT)
"Michael" <novelguy@myway.com> had written:
> > Is it possible to make cyser using fresh apples instead of juice or cider?
In MLD 1043, "OudBruin@aol.com" suggests
> If you use fresh apples, do 3 things,
> 1 pasteurise the apples,
> 2) use lots of pectin emzyme
> 3) suggest that you completely mash the apples -
> 4) keep in mind the seeds are a source for B-17( cyno-co-balamine, a form of
> cynade), a little goes a long way...
> 5) brew happy...
Re (3), definitely, you've got to break up the apples to release the juice.
(Usual terms are "grinding" or "milling" to a texture something like very
coarse applesauce.) But then what? At that point you want to extract the
juice so that you can ferment with it. An alternative is to ferment first,
then press out the juice, but that's a mess.
One way or another you're going to need some sort of press or you'll waste
most of the juice in the apples.
Frankly, I wouldn't worry about pasteurizing. Commercial ider-makers don't
pasteurize. Amateur cider-makers may use pasteurized juice if there's no
other choice. A lot of cider-makers use sulfites. There's a big can of
worms in that discussion; nevertheless it's as common as sulfites in wine.
If you *do* pasteurize, you're going to have a pectin problem--and most
apples have a LOT of pectin, which is why "OudBruin" is saying to use
pectinase. But if you pasteurize you'll also produce a bit of cooked
flavor, and it sounds like that's the opposite of the direction you're
trying to go.
As to cyanide in the seeds: The seeds contain cyanogens--precursors of
cyanide compounds, which in some situations can produce small amounts
of cyanide. This isn't a problem under normal circumstances. If you're
concerned, it's better to avoid crushing the seeds. Don't sit down and
eat a bunch of seeds by themselves. I have read that there is some
indication that the cyanogens are rendered ineffective...or that the
enzymes that would activate them are rendered ineffective...by the juice.
I don't know whether that's considered conclusive and I don't have the
source at hand. But what matters is that whatever cyanide-containing
compounds might be released during milling and pressing, there's not enough
active remaining relative to the amount of juice to worry about.
- - - -
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1044
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