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Mead Lovers Digest #1036
From: mead-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1036, 16 August 2003
Mead Lover's Digest #1036 16 August 2003
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE:Yeast starters for mead (Dave Polaschek)
Re: Maple Syrup (Dave Polaschek)
Strange fermentation? (Mark Ottenberg)
A Meading I will go ("Jim Barnhart")
Re: Strange fermentation? ("Murphy-Marsh, Leigh") (Carl Hensler)
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1035, 13 August 2003 ("Jim Barnhart")
Re: Yeast starters for mead ("Stephen Murphrey")
Cane and Beet sugar purity and processing (Jeff Renner)
Re: new to mead ("Stephen Murphrey")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1035, 13 August 2003 ("Stephen Murphrey")
Re: Mead Meeting and Cyser ("Stephen Murphrey")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE:Yeast starters for mead
From: Dave Polaschek <davep@davespicks.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:31:23 -0500
"Matt Maples" <matt_lists@liquidsolutions.ws> wrote:
> I usually use apple juice for a starter and it seems to work well
> enough even for the Wyeast Sweet Mead (ale yeast).
I also use apple juice for a starter, and have for years. My typical process
is to buy a quart of unfiltered, unpasteurized apple juice from the local co-op
(or run some apples through a juicer if I've got them on hand) and pour enough
into a 22 oz Steinlager bottle (a local bar has a weekly special on them,
so I can get a lot of free empties) to get to the bottom of the shoulder,
then add the yeast and stick in an airlock. Works well with nearly every
yeast I've found suitable for mead (including my old favorite, Edme Ale
Yeast), and the starter is usually ready to go the next day.
As an added benefit, that also leaves me enough apple juice to go with
breakfast on brewing day.
- -DaveP
- --
Dave Polaschek - http://betternerds.com/ http://davespicks.com/
"I don't have a fear of flying. I have a fear of not flying."
- Andrew Dice Clay
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Maple Syrup
From: Dave Polaschek <davep@davespicks.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:45:53 -0500
"Olluyn Jo" <Jo.Olluyn@cronos.be> wrote:
>I've come across some recipes concerning maple syrup-based variants of
>mead. Most of them require about 8 pounds of maple syrup per 5 gallons
>of water.
That agrees with what I've found to work well.
>Now, where I live, quality maple syrup is not cheap. Not cheap at all.
>In fact, it goes at such staggering prices that it is often sold in
>small bottles, the size of small coke bottle.
Here in the US, it's possible to find a US gallon of Maple Syrup for around
$30. The lighter-colored Grade A fancy is, as others have pointed out,
more expensive. I generally use the Grade B, which I find darker and more
flavorful, but economy generally wins out over that sort of preference,
and I've enjoyed all the maple wines and maple meads I've made, regardless
of the grade of syrup I've started with.
I would suggest you use the syrup which is cheapest for you, as long as it
is 100% maple syrup and not something which has had corn-syrup added to
stretch it.
As an alternative, you could look at using Maple Sugar. I've seen it in the
stores, but for me here in the US, it's not price-competitive with maple
syrup. <http://www.icdc.com/~vanilla/Pure%20Maple%20Flavor%20Extract.htm>
is one brand I've seen. It's priced at about $45US for 5lb, which would
be roughly equivalent to 8lbs of syrup. They do orders outside the US, so
perhaps that would be an economical way for you to brew a maple mead. See
<http://www.icdc.com/~vanilla/product2.htm> for prices and links to their
order form.
- -DaveP
- --
Dave Polaschek - http://betternerds.com/ http://davespicks.com/
"The Middle Eastern states aren't nations; they're quarrels with
borders." - P.J. O'Rourke
------------------------------
Subject: Strange fermentation?
From: Mark Ottenberg <mark@riverrock.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:49:37 -0600
At 09:02 AM 8/13/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Subject: Strange fermentation?
>From: "Murphy-Marsh, Leigh" <Leigh.Murphy-Marsh@wmc.com>
>Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 04:34:43 +0800
>
>Hello peoples.
>...
>The fermentation lock seems to be 'breathing'. The air goes out, then
>the air goes in and so on. It's only a very slow process. About every 3
>- - 4 days it changes direction. It's in a 3 gallon plastic water bottle
>with airlock and I have been very sterile when racking it out. The room
>it is in is at a comfortable 26 degrees at all times (reverse cycle air
One reason this can happen is a cyclic of change of atmospheric
pressure. It is one reason why I prefer a glass carboy to a more flexible
plastic container for secondary fermentation vessel. It is less of a
problem during primary when the must is still creating a substantial amount
of gas.
Peace,
-- Mark
------------------------------
Subject: A Meading I will go
From: "Jim Barnhart" <jimmydo2@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:27:49 -0700
Greetings all:
I just found a local supplier for Agave, Raw Honey, and Prickly
Pears.... I am in Mead Heaven.
I have a currently have two batches going, that were started on
08/05/03.
I started a Plum batch with 10 pounds of Honey and 6 pounds of agave
Nectar, OG 1.120 (White labs wine and mead yeast with a 1 pint starter)
and a 100% agave batch using 24 lbs of Blue Agave Nectar OG 1.100. with
White labs Champagne Yeast in a 1 pint starter.
The Plum Took off and is fermenting well, but the blue agave is doing
almost nothing, I think I have seen about 5 burbles of the airlock
Before I start another Batch with Agave, I was wondering if anyone might
have any suggestions of what might have gone wrong with the Agave, or
how I might be able to Kick it
Jim Barnhart
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Strange fermentation? ("Murphy-Marsh, Leigh")
From: Carl Hensler <Carl.Hensler@eng.sun.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:52:41 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Strange fermentation?
> From: "Murphy-Marsh, Leigh" <Leigh.Murphy-Marsh@wmc.com>
> Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 04:34:43 +0800
>
> Hello peoples.
> I have just started brewing mead and have had a simple mead (honey,
> black tea, lemon juice and champagne yeast) on for 4 - 5 months and it
> has started doing something strange I haven't seen before. I have done
> beers and stuff in the past.
> The fermentation lock seems to be 'breathing'. The air goes out, then
> the air goes in and so on. It's only a very slow process. About every 3
> - - 4 days it changes direction. It's in a 3 gallon plastic water bottle
> with airlock and I have been very sterile when racking it out. The room
> it is in is at a comfortable 26 degrees at all times (reverse cycle air
> con). I haven't tasted it but would rather not rack it out again because
> I've already racked it twice over the last few months and it looks like
> it is starting to clear. It tasted alright at the last time it was
> racked out. Has anyone ever seen this happen before?
> In the words of mighty Spock, Live long and proffer.
> Leigh.
Your mead is delusional. It thinks it is a barometer.
Fermentation has stopped and your mead is not producing
carbon dioxide anymore. When the barometric pressure
outside the fermenter drops, gas bubbles out the airlock.
When the barometric pressure increases, air bubbles into
the airlock.
Carl
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1035, 13 August 2003
From: "Jim Barnhart" <jimmydo2@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 13:58:31 -0700
Hello Leigh:
It sounds like your fermentation is complete, you might want to check
your Gravity, and Rack into a glass container for clariphying.
It sounds like you have made a Barometer, and your Motion in your
airlock is in response to changes in barometric pressure.
Jim
Subject: Strange fermentation?
From: "Murphy-Marsh, Leigh" <Leigh.Murphy-Marsh@wmc.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 04:34:43 +0800
Hello peoples.
I have just started brewing mead and have had a simple mead (honey,
black tea, lemon juice and champagne yeast) on for 4 - 5 months and it
has started doing something strange I haven't seen before. I have done
beers and stuff in the past. The fermentation lock seems to be
'breathing'. The air goes out, then the air goes in and so on. It's only
a very slow process. About every 3
- - - 4 days it changes direction. It's in a 3 gallon plastic water bottle
with airlock and I have been very sterile when racking it out. The room
it is in is at a comfortable 26 degrees at all times (reverse cycle air
con). I haven't tasted it but would rather not rack it out again because
I've already racked it twice over the last few months and it looks like
it is starting to clear. It tasted alright at the last time it was
racked out. Has anyone ever seen this happen before? In the words of
mighty Spock, Live long and proffer. Leigh.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Yeast starters for mead
From: "Stephen Murphrey" <swmurph@attglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:22:26 -0400
> ----- Original Message ----- > >
> I talked with my supplier and have e-mailed White Labs and they both
> recommended making a starter with DME. I'm not real comfortable adding
> Malt to my mead, is there a better way to make a good starter?
In the past, I've used many DME starters with great success. I never got
any adverse effects that I could discern. Lately, I've been using
commercial apple juice starters (1 quart juice and 1 package Wyeast 3184
Sweet Mead Yeast). I notice no difference in flavor, and the apple juice is
a LOT easier.
Steve Murphrey
------------------------------
Subject: Cane and Beet sugar purity and processing
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:17:01 -0400
Catching up on old digests:
"Olluyn Jo" <Jo.Olluyn@cronos.be> wrote in MLD #1032, 5 August 2003:
>Concerning sugars etc, I can imagine when using white beet sugar, most
>of the aftertaste could spring from the traces of soluents in the sugar
>itself. As you may know, white (refined) sugar is chemically speaking a
>very dirty product, requiring dozens of steps before the brownish
>molasses from the beets are transformed into the white sugarcube you all
>know. Many of these steps involve quite vicious soluents and acids,
>which each in turn need something even more nasty to remove them from
>the ever clearing syrop. But in the end, the sugar you see is only white
>in colour. Chemically, it is a rather unpure product.
Can you document this? I believe that cane or beet sugars are
virtually pure sucrose, and not at all "a very dirty product" nor
produced by a "nasty" process with "vicious" chemicals as you write.
While it is an sugar industry "mouthpiece" organization, I think the
Sugar Association is likely to have accurate information or it would
be challenged. From my reading of their site at
http://www.sugar.org/facts/grow.html, as well
http://www.britishsugar.co.uk/bsweb/sfi/agricind/process.htm,
http://www.sucrose.com/lref.html and
http://www.geo.msu.edu/geo333/beetindustry.html, sugar beets are
first mechanically chopped up, then the sugar and other soluble
impurities are extracted simply by water. (Sugar cane is processed
similarly).
Then the raw juice is "Clarified - by adding milk of lime and carbon
dioxide. The carbon dioxide bubbles through the mixture forming
calcium carbonate, a chalk-like crystal which attracts the non-sugar
plant materials like wax, fats, and gums from the juice. In a
clarifier, the calcium carbonate and the other materials fall out of
the sucrose solution and settle to the bottom."
Then "concentrated and crystalized, then the crystals are washed,
dissolved, clarified or filtered to remove the molasses and insoluble
impurities. At this point, the product is a clear, golden-colored
liquid.
"Carbon filters remove the remaining color, producing a water-white
sugar syrup. The syrup is concentrated by evaporating some of the
water."
They further say that the final product is pure sucrose (without
defining just how pure they mean):
"Raw sugar is approximately 96-98% sucrose. The nearly pure sugar
crystal is covered by a thin film of molasses, the thick raw syrup
from the mill. The molasses coating contains sugar, water, plant
material, minerals, and other non-sugars. Since the raw sugar
contains these impurities it is not as stable in storage and needs to
be further purified to yield the stable, pure sweet sugar that is
edible." ... "Refined sugar contains purified sugar -- pure sucrose."
No mention of dozens of steps involving "vicious soluents [sic,
solvents?] and acids" etc.
Now the process mentioned as "dissolved, clarified or filtered" could
cover a multitude of things they don't want to talk about, but I
don't know. But neither of the other two sites make any suggestion
of this.
I'd like to know what you mean when you write that sugar is "dirty"
and the refinement process "nasty."
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Subject: Re: new to mead
From: "Stephen Murphrey" <swmurph@attglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:41:31 -0400
> ----- Original Message -----
> some recipes call for boiling, warming or just shaking the
> liquid with the honey. Is there an answer or reason to do
> one and not the other?
> I read something somewhere that the apple juice may provide
> certain sugars needed to get the yeast going and if I were
> to make a non juice based mead I might have to modify my
> process.
There is no single answer. All 3 techniques (boiling, warming, no heating)
can make excellent mead. A reasons for boiling or warming is to sterilize
or sanitize the must, killing all the nasties, including wild yeast, that
might have an adverse effect. A reason not to boil or warm is to avoid
losing some of the volatile honey/fruit characteristics. Reasons not to
heat at all are that pitching enough yeast cells will minimize the chance of
infection and it's a LOT easier. I've had good success with both the boil
and the heat-to-175-degrees method. Later this week, I'm going to try the
no-heat method for the first time.
I've heard something similar about apple juice. It may very well be true.
My yeast starters made with commercial apple juice always start fermenting
right away. But in the must, I always add yeast nutrient and yeast
energizer.
Stephen Murphrey
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1035, 13 August 2003
From: "Stephen Murphrey" <swmurph@attglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:53:27 -0400
>----- Original Message -----
> Wyeast Sweet Mead (ale yeast). I have seen the Sweet Mead yeast drop out
> way too soon for my taste. I've seen 1.025 to even 1.032. Make sure and
> stir it up and keep the yeast from dropping out until you get close to
> where you want your mead to be then let it drop out and or chill it down
> to get it to drop fast.
I've seen something similar. However, my meads that stopped at a high
gravity all had pretty high initial gravity (over 1.11). Those with lower
initial gravity (1.09ish) tended to have a lower final gravity. I suspect
that the yeast is just reaching its alcohol tolerance. Your agitation
suggestion is a good idea, and it will usually help cause a more complete
fermentation. Pitching a large starter that is actively fermenting when you
pitch it will also help the fermentation.
Steve Murphrey
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Meeting and Cyser
From: "Stephen Murphrey" <swmurph@attglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 22:09:12 -0400
>----- Original Message -----
> Our Club, Battleground Brewers Guild, Greensboro, NC, is going to make a
> Cyser for Mead Month.
>
> Our plan is a 6 gallon batch with 12 pounds of honey, 4 gallons of juice
> and some frozen concentrate to bump things up to about 1.10. We will use
> L-K1, Lavlin Montrachet wine yeast. Once primary is complete, we will
split
> the batch into 3 gallons of sparkling and 3 gallons of spiced (add a tea)
> still mead.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.
Your recipe sounds fine. But an alternative is to use 5 gallons of apple
cider (unpasteurized is best, IMHO) and skip the frozen concentrate. I made
an excellent cyser that way a number of years ago (it was the last year that
you could get unpasteurized cider from the Farmer's Market), and I recall
(cannot find any records from that batch) that the original gravity was
about 1.090. It was very drinkable 3 months after pitching the yeast, and
only 1 bottle survived the first year (it got mixed with some other bottles
and was accidentally overlooked) - even though I usually age meads for 2
years before starting to consume them.
Steve Murphrey
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1036
*******************************
