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Mead Lovers Digest #1039
From: mead-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1039, 26 August 2003
Mead Lover's Digest #1039 26 August 2003
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
"Damme Jeanne" (Jeff Renner)
Re: vodka? (MLD#1038) (Ross McKay)
Re: "Dirty" Sugar (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
Responding to the dirty sugar maelstrom (Vuarra)
Re: Sugar (Tom Smit)
Starters and Oxygenation ("phil")
Re: vodka? ("Dan McFeeley")
Vodka (Ken Schramm)
Ancient Fermentations ("Dan McFeeley")
Mead starters (Ken Schramm)
Re: Agave Fermentation (Rick Dingus)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1038, 23 August 2003 (Evening Star)
Sugar refinery again ("Olluyn Jo")
Damme Jeanne ("Olluyn Jo")
Subject: vodka? ("King, Derek")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1038, 23 August 2003 ("john doerter")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: "Damme Jeanne"
From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 16:41:09 -0400
Jay Ankeney asks Jo
>But you also said, "I racked it into a clean Damme Jeanne" and that peaked my
>curiosity. What is a "Damme Jeanne"? Sounds interesting.
I'm not Jo, but thinking that Jo may not know what we call it here on
this side of the Atlantic, I'll answer.
It's a demijohn, or a carboy. The OED says that demijohn is a
corruption of the French dame-jeanne. It has a long explanation of
how that name may have come about.
Jeff
- --
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner@comcast.net
"One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
------------------------------
Subject: Re: vodka? (MLD#1038)
From: Ross McKay <rosko@zeta.org.au>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 09:20:15 +1000
"tugger" <tugger@netreach.net> wrote:
>In reading Ken Schramm's book on page 32 near the top he
>refers to having your "vodka at hand". I have not read the
>book in detail but have not found vodka referred to
>elswhere. In several mead/melomel recipes I have seen
>referrence to a small amount of vodka. I assume this is to
>be added to the mix ( vs drinking it while making the must)
>but can anyone explain the purpose.
Whilst I haven't read the book, I'd guess that the vodka is for putting
in the airlock - this is what I do with it.
You can put many different liquids in your airlock, and apparently there
are three schools of though:
1) just use clean water
2) use a dilute bleach or other sanitiser
3) use a high alcohol liquor with a neutral flavour (e.g. vodka)
Methods 2) and 3) are both used because they should/might stop nasties
making their way through the liquid in the airlock and into your must.
Whereas with a beer, the time under airlock is generally short, with a
mead it can be many months (or years) so the airlock liquid has to
remain clean of contaminants for longer.
Method 2) has the potential to drop bad tasting sanitiser into your
mead, albeit that should not happen if you haven't set up your mead as a
barometer - keep a small headspace. However, the threat exists for
"suckback" so some of us prefer method 3) where if any of the vodka is
sucked back into the mead, it won't ruin it.
cheers,
Ross.
- --
Ross McKay, WebAware Pty Ltd
"Since when were you so generously inarticulate?" - Elvis Costello
------------------------------
Subject: Re: "Dirty" Sugar
From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt@umich.edu>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 20:09:47 -0400 (EDT)
Two factoids from my extensive collection of useless knowledge:
1) Sugar refinery's may be considered dirty because they do tend to
produce wastewater with high BOD, which, if untreeated, can cause algae
blooms, etc. This isn't really an issue for the average consumer unless
you live downstream from a sugar refinery.
2) I've read in multiple sources that brown sugar in the U.S. is usually
just refined (white) sugar with some molasses added _back_ in to get the
color/taste that's expected.
Regardless of all of that, I don't think I'd worry about my sugar much.
Just recognize that it's pretty nutritionally incomplete and use it in
your diet accordingly (the reason, I suspect, that doctors may steer you
away from it).
Enough rambling from me for the evening.
Travis
A2, MI
------------------------------
Subject: Responding to the dirty sugar maelstrom
From: Vuarra <vuarra@yahoo.ca>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:37:20 -0700 (PDT)
"In the end, the sugar is pure sucrose that would not
crystallize properly and be able to be ground into the
powder that you use at your table unless it were quite
pure. To compare sugar refining to petroleum refining
shows your lack of understanding of chemical
processes. The end product in oil is rarely pure,
intentionally.
- - -Dan Schultz"
Sorry, Dan, but sucrose is not crystalline (look at it
under a microscope, and compare it to salt), and the
petroleum refining business requires purity to the end
user (I know, I've deal with many Certificates of
Analysis when I was working at a chemical storage
facility).
"First, many solid organic compounds are white
powders. For many compounds, "white" is their
"natural" color, and for such compounds, any color
other than white suggests impurities. Pure glucose is
a white powder, and honey is rarely "white". There are
white inorganic compounds as well. Pure salt (sodium
chloride) is white."
Pure table salt, quartz and diamonds are all actually
transparent. It is the way the light reflects and
refracts thru the huge amount of tiny crystals that
causes the salt to be white. Quartz and diamond would
be just as white as salt if they were fractured
("ground") the same way; salt would look rather like
glass if one had a large crystal rather than a bowl
full of it on the dining table. Sugar is white for
the same reason, although it is actually not a
crystal.
As for Dihydrogen Oxide, I've found quite a bit if it
in my mead. Should I have it chemically removed for
my safety? :) :)
Anyhow, I think we should drop this thread, as it
really seems to be useless to mead making. Could
someone please re-post the address of the table that
shows weight of honey dissolved in water to give a SG?
I broke my tester just as I was getting ready to take
a reading :(
=====
Vuarra
Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sugar
From: Tom Smit <lunica@ozemail.com.au>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:59:41 +0000
Personally I only use unrefined sugars like the Billingtons range--light
& dark muscovado etc--these sugars have flavor color etc
white sugar?? nahhhhhhhh
Tom Smit
------------------------------
Subject: Starters and Oxygenation
From: "phil" <pcwojdak@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:31:39 -0700
Hi all,
I am confused about starters and oxygenation. I understand the basic
concept that more yeast makes for a stronger fermentation. This is
particularly important to me because I don't use camdon tablets,
sulfites or heat.
I did not understand the table in the last digest. When you make a
starter, how much additional yeast are you hoping to grow before
pitching it?
My starters seem to get quiet on day 2. Is this because of a lack of
oxygen?
Is the goal of oxygenating the must to grow more yeast, or to make the
existing yeast stronger?
Finally, if the latter, is there a finite amount of oxygen that will get
the yeast as strong as it is going to get?
Thanks,
Phil W.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: vodka?
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:08:30 -0500
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, in MLD 1038, "Tugger" wrote:
>In reading Ken Schramm's book on page 32 near the top he
>refers to having your "vodka at hand". I have not read the
>book in detail but have not found vodka referred to
>elswhere. In several mead/melomel recipes I have seen
>referrence to a small amount of vodka. I assume this is to
>be added to the mix ( vs drinking it while making the must)
>but can anyone explain the purpose.
It's on page 29 -- the vodka is used to fill the fermentation lock
as a sanitizing agent. Although water is effective in blocking
incoming air, a sanitizer is recommended to prevent the growth
of bacteria or mold inside the lock. Cheap vodka is a long
time handy method of keeping air and contaminating bugs
out but, as Ken warns, it needs checking every so often as
vodka evaporates more quickly than water.
In general, the more concentrated the alcohol solution, the more
quickly the alcohol evaporates. The air bubbling through the
vodka will also increase the evaporation rate. The more potent
stuff like Everclear will evaporate even more quickly. Some folk
who do use it recommend diluting at a ratio of about 3 parts water
to 1 part Everclear. There may be other and better sanitizers but
cheap vodka is handy, doesn't require mixing or measuring, and
works well enough to suit the purpose.
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
------------------------------
Subject: Vodka
From: Ken Schramm <schramk@mail.resa.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:46:21 -0400
Tugger;
A few pages earlier (page 29), I mention that I often use vodka in my
airlocks, especially during the window of vulnerability early on in the
fermentation, since vodka is inherently sanitized, and presents none of
the potential problems that using bleach water in an airlock does.
During the moving of full plastic fermenters or the bubbling-over high
krausen of fruit meads, there is the possibility that the liquid in your
airlock may come in contact with your must. Vodka makes that a
stress-free event.
On the yeast starter growth front, oxygen is the determinant in most
cases, and the commercial yeast culturing operations I am familiar with
all use magnetic stirring rods to keep both agitation and oxygen
absorption occurring continuously. Nutrient availability is also
critical, and I would never use plain honey to establish a starter
population. as it is woefully bereft of nitrogen, biotin and other
micronutrients.
Jay: I think Jo meant "Demijohn."
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Ancient Fermentations
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 13:09:04 -0500
A recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Education, the
8/15/03 issue, highlights some recent work by Patrick
McGovern on origins of ancient beverages. Residue
from pottery shards found in the Henan province of
China show that it held a beverage made from grape,
rice and honey. The shards are dated to about 9,000
years before the present. Interestingly, analysis of
8,000 year old shards from the Georgia mountains in
the Caucasus region also show evidence of winemaking.
There is no known evidence showing trade between
the two areas, strongly suggesting that the harnessing
of alcoholic fermentation was developed independently
by both groups.
Next spring, according to the article, McGovern plans
to travel to Turkey to analyze stone bowls made before
the Neolithic era. If he does detect evidence of alcoholic
fermentation it will establish what many people have
been hypothesizing (Ken Schramm in _The Compleat
Meadmaker_ calls this the "Magic Bag" theory), that
the invention of pottery was not a necessary component
at the origins of winemaking.
A few MLD's back I posted some hypotheses of my
own on the history of meadmaking -- that although
"mead" as we know it was likely not the first fermented
beverage, honey was probably used as an adjunct ingredient
during the time when various peoples, in various places and
times, first began to experiment with alcoholic fermentation.
The archaeological evidence supports this, but these latest
findings announced by McGovern pushing the known history
of alcoholic beverages back to the very edge of the Neolithic
era are especially exciting.
Below are links giving more information on Patrick
McGovern's research:
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~mcgovern/
http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/research/Exp_Rese_Disc/NearEast/wine.shtml
http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/research/Exp_Rese_Disc/masca/beer.shtml
http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/research/Exp_Rese_Disc/Mediterranean/Midas/intro.shtml
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
------------------------------
Subject: Mead starters
From: Ken Schramm <schramk@mail.resa.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:47:55 -0400
I am inclined to say that the information on making starters in "The
Compleat Meadmaker" is not the best advice to be found. The starter
recipe, prepared according to the directions in the book, yields a
solution with a gravity of about 1.030. Dan McConnell does, in fact,
prepare his starter cultures at about 1.020. That gravity would call
for a third of a cup of honey, _not_ half a cup. That said, I have used
the starter culture recipe in the book, and juice starters over 1.040,
and have obtained the desired yeast population build-up without
substantial adverse flavor effects.
I'm not going to respond to Raj's question on monosaccharides until I
can get a better understanding of whether or not the polysaccharides in
malt extract are utilized by the yeast in malt extract starters.
It is my understanding that the yeast will absorb oxygen and reproduce
at any phase in the fermentation cycle, irrespective of gravity.
In short, the best info I have indicates that 1.020 or lower, good
oxygenation and sufficient nitrogen and micronutrient levels will work
best to grow healthy populations fastest.
Ken Schramm
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Agave Fermentation
From: Rick Dingus <rick.dingus@ttu.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:19:10 -0500
Re: Agave Fermentation
Following the thread about difficulties encountered with fermenting agave
extract: I also suspect there are preservatives which interfere with new
yeast promulgation. I've heard that preservatives discourage the growth of
additional yeast but don't necessarily kill the yeast that is present. If
an adequate supply of vital yeast is available at the start, that may help
keep the agave fermentation going, even if it is slow and sluggish.
I had a difficult time of my own fermenting agave extract added to honey,
lemon peel, prickly pear, and mahlab (a spice made from cherry pits). It
took several weeks before it even seemed to get going. Even then, this was
at a very slow pace. I had started a batch of melomel made with sour
cherries at the same time, which finished in a couple of weeks. So when I
racked the melomel into a secondary, I racked the agave mixture onto the
sediment of the melomel. This seemed to help, probably because there was a
large amount of acclimated yeast in the sediment. To keep it going I roused
the yeast every day a time or two by gently tilting the carboy and swirling
to keep the yeast in suspension. It took the agave mixture three more
months to finish fermenting, so I'm not sure whether it was the added yeast
or just the added time. I ended up blending it with a drier prickly pear
mead because 3/4 of the fermentables were agave and the flavor was very
intense. But it was also delicious. This blended mixture is probably my
favorite concoction in a decade of brewing and mead making.
So don't give up. Be patient. It may well be worth the effort.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1038, 23 August 2003
From: Evening Star <eveningstartwo@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:55:09 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: vodka?
> From: "tugger" <tugger@netreach.net>
> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:19:39 -0400
>
> In reading Ken Schramm's book on page 32 near the top he
> refers to having your "vodka at hand". I have not read the
> book in detail but have not found vodka referred to
> elswhere. In several mead/melomel recipes I have seen
> referrence to a small amount of vodka. I assume this is to
> be added to the mix ( vs drinking it while making the must)
> but can anyone explain the purpose. I need a melomel recipe
> that does not use sulfites/camden tablets as my wife may be
> allergic to sulfites. Would like to combine freshly frozen
> plums and apple juice. any suggestions?
> thanks.
FWIW, I've been brewing for 5 years and I have used vodka in one
receipe because it is a quick mead and sulfites/camden tablets in none.
I do not brew huge amounts but I've brewed at least 5 different
varities and never had a bad batch (Murphy, do *not* listen to this!).
If you want ro discuss it more, feel free to email me.
Maureen
------------------------------
Subject: Sugar refinery again
From: "Olluyn Jo" <Jo.Olluyn@cronos.be>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:09:25 +0200
Okay, I get the message. I'll take off my goat-woollen socks, dislodge
myself from my intimate embrace with a nearby plumtree, put my afghan
camel sweater back in its moth-plagued suitcase and shut up about sugar.
Greetz
Jo
PS: just out of plain stiff-necked curiosity: does anyone know if
sugar-replacements such as aspartame are ever used for brewing? That'd
be gross...
------------------------------
Subject: Damme Jeanne
From: "Olluyn Jo" <Jo.Olluyn@cronos.be>
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:13:16 +0200
Oops, that's dutch for Carboy I'm afraid. Couldn't think of the name...
------------------------------
Subject: Subject: vodka?
From: "King, Derek" <DKING@tsionline.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 05:46:05 -0400
They use the vodka to kill off any yeasts still active in the secondary
fementation by raising the alcohol content of the batch in question.
So, when you bottle your mead you won't have worry as much about the bottles
bursting. But I've only seen that added to the lower octane mead recipes,
or the quick brew recipes. Usually the alcohol content in most dryer meads
are high enough to kill off most of the active yeasts on their own.
D King
Drunken Master
P.s. Vodka is never a bad thing to add to any drink.....
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #1038, 23 August 2003
From: "john doerter" <jdoerter@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:56:59 -0500
> Subject: vodka?
> From: "tugger" <tugger@netreach.net>
> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:19:39 -0400
>
> In reading Ken Schramm's book on page 32 near the top he
> refers to having your "vodka at hand". I have not read the
> book in detail but have not found vodka referred to
> elswhere. In several mead/melomel recipes I have seen
> referrence to a small amount of vodka. I assume this is to
> be added to the mix ( vs drinking it while making the must)
> but can anyone explain the purpose. I need a melomel recipe
> that does not use sulfites/camden tablets as my wife may be
> allergic to sulfites. Would like to combine freshly frozen
> plums and apple juice. any suggestions?
> thanks.
Primarily two uses for Vodka in mead making. Some people
use it in thier Airlocks to prevent nasties growing.
the main use (IMO) is to extract Flavors from spices etc...
some people will soak said spice in a small amount of vodka
while the primary fermentation is going on then add it to the
secondary/bulk aging.
I haven't read his book (YET) so I can't answer as to what
use he is stating.
HTH,
john
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1039
*******************************
