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Mead Lovers Digest #1020
From: mead-request@talisman.com
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Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1020, 15 June 2003
Mead Lover's Digest #1020 15 June 2003
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
("J & C Cameron")
re: rhodomel question ("Kristopher Barrett")
Re: Plum melomel recipes ("Joshua A. Laff, LMP")
Re: Natural Orange or Blackberry Melomel ("Joshua A. Laff, LMP")
Honey quantities ("Robert Elliott")
rhodomel question ("Randy Goldberg MD")
Natural Orange or Blackberry Melomel ("Randy Goldberg MD")
Cautions with Ginger mead (PHREDLESS@aol.com)
spruce, plums, etc. ("Chuck Wettergreen")
Re: Mazer Cup Results (Robert Sandefer)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
From: "J & C Cameron" <cte71259@centurytel.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:49:07 -0500
Hi,
i made a mead a while ago and here is the feed back i dont on it,
Hi
I just poured a glass what was the recipe? Very light (good clarity)
color very pale a bit of alcohol in the background a touch of fruit in
the back.
If it were mine I would think it had to little character. Its certainly
pleasant but doesn't seem to have much character. So your technique was
good now the wine needs to say something if you follow my logic. What
kind of honey did you use? and how much per gallon.
I'm off to Lillie's tomorrow morning. So I will be gone the next 10
days.
Cheers,
Can some one point the to some info on inproving character, or it this
somthing that time and aging will help out?
thanks Jim C.
------------------------------
Subject: re: rhodomel question
From: "Kristopher Barrett" <kbarrett@cotse.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 19:08:32 -0400 (EDT)
> I don't have enough money to buy bottles right
> now. How long can I let it sit in the secondary
> fermenter, or would it help to rack it into a
> tertiary carboy? There's a layer of lees about a
> half inch thick on the bottom.
Rack it to another carboy, airlock it and forget about it. Once the
initial lees are all off, it can age indefinately. The longer, the better.
Really Old Meade is the drink of the gods.
A fraction of an inch of lees is no big deal.
- --
Regards,
Kristopher Barrett http://www.cotse.net/users/kbarrett
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Plum melomel recipes
From: "Joshua A. Laff, LMP" <jal@jallmp.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:44:32 -0700
> Subject: Plum melomel recipes
> From: "Howard & Patty Curran" <OCurrans@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Plums will be available at the end of this month, and I would like to
> make a six gallon batch of semi-sweet plum melomel. Does anyone have a
...
> Any comments?
I made a plum several years ago as my third batch, before I started keeping
records... I believe it was a 5 gallon batch with some large amount of
plums, perhaps 10 lbs or so. There's just the obvious comments here...
plums have subtle flavor, so use a lot and use a mild honey. I used
alfalfa, with champagne yeast and a large amount of honey (I think I used
4.5 lbs per gallon). The plum flavor is still very subtle yet noticeable,
it's fairly sweet, and it didn't clear very well on its own (compared to my
other meads, which tend to clear very well with no additives). I would have
added the plums to the primary, actually pouring the hot must on the plums,
so it could be that the plums have more of a pectin issue than other fruits
I've used.
- - Joshua
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Natural Orange or Blackberry Melomel
From: "Joshua A. Laff, LMP" <jal@jallmp.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:10:02 -0700
> Subject: Natural Orange or Blackberry Melomel
> From: "Naturally High" <naturally_high@phreaker.net>
>
> I wanted to make a batch to party on my birthday with on 25th July but I
> realise now that only gives it time to ferment but I want true flavour
> as well so maybe something for christmas. Will that be enough time?
> I want to make an orange melomel but their is quite a range of recipes
> available. I'm looking for something that will turn out slightly thick,
> tangy and high alcohol content. I'd also like to make blackberry melomel
> but I was told it makes an odd flavour, is this true? Is their a recipe
> that suits either of these?
I can't speak about orange, but I most of my meads contain berries of some
sort. I've made a mead with blackberries plus raspberries, blueberries, and
strawberries (and some herbs), with no odd flavors. The advantage I've
found with berries over other fruits is, with all the nutrients,
fermentation goes fast. My 4-berry mix, for example, was ready to bottle
just 3 months after pitching the yeast. Raspberries are usually ready in 4
months. If you start now, you can certainly have *something* by July 25,
though it obviously won't be complete. You'll of course need to add some
stuff to stop fermentation and get the yeast to drop out. If you're looking
for something sweet and thick, this is also akin to my typical berry
recipes, and I've found that these meads are also drinkable at bottling.
Granted, it's not as good as it could be with aging, but it's tollerable
for the non-sensitive pallate. So, you should be able to make some sort of
passable, drinkable alcohol by July 25. Here's my typical sweet, thick,
berry recipe, 7 gallon batch:
For primary:
21 lbs honey
water to make 5 gallons
10 lbs berries (through several freeze-thaw cycles)
Wyeast Dry Mead yeast
pour hot must over frozen berries
after two weeks, remove must from berries
feed with must: 14 lbs honey, water to make 2 more gallons
This totals about 35 lbs of honey for 7 gallons, 5 lbs per gallon. It is as
you asked for, sweet and thick. I've gotten great feedback on that batch,
but personally I thought it was slightly too sweet / thick. I was a little
happier with another batch that used 22 lbs at the start, plus another 10.5
lbs later (total 32.5). If you're shooting for July 25 and will be dropping
out the yeast early, you'll definitely want to reduce the amount of honey.
I can't tell you how much, as I've never done that, but I can tell you that
primary fermentation is quite vigorous, and fermentation through the first
month is extremely active, so you may not need to drop it *too* much.
> I've heard flavour is lost in a fast bubbling must so would it help if I
> added the fruit juice in stages as it ferments or even while racking?
This is an age-old argument. I always add fruit to the primary, and I've
always been happy. If you're shooting for July 25, though, any loss of
subtle flavors will be inconsequential compared to the flavors of
incomplete, unaged alcohol.
- - Joshua
------------------------------
Subject: Honey quantities
From: "Robert Elliott" <r_selliott@bigpond.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:20:29 +1000
Hi,
I have been reading your web literature on mead but it doesn't mention =
how much honey should be dissolved in the quantity of water.
Can you give me some figures to make a traditional mead?
Cheers,
------------------------------
Subject: rhodomel question
From: "Randy Goldberg MD" <goldbergr1@cox.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:56:33 -0400
> Second question has to do with a hydrometer.
> I had a hydrometer, it worked just fine until I
> stepped on the tube and popped it. The
> thermometer looking thing is fine, just the tube
> it came in was popped. I bought a new tube the
> other day and used it. There was alcohol in the
> rhodomel, I could taste/smell it. However, the
> hydrometer said there wasn't any. Could the fact
> that the new tube is wider than the old one was
> be effecting it's efficiancy?
I routinely just drop my hydrometer into my bucket-sized primary fermenter,
so that's not it. Maybe you cracked the hydrometer?
Randy
****************************************
RandomTag: Famous Quotes: "Missed it by that much!" - M. Smart
------------------------------
Subject: Natural Orange or Blackberry Melomel
From: "Randy Goldberg MD" <goldbergr1@cox.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:02:03 -0400
> I wanted to make a batch to party on my birthday with on 25th July but I
> realise now that only gives it time to ferment but I want true flavour
> as well so maybe something for christmas. Will that be enough time?
It depends. I've made meads that were pleasantly drinkable (if you don't
mind a slightly yeasty odor) after 8 weeks. The faster it ferments, the
warmer the space you keep it in, the higher the alcohol content, or the more
honey you use, the more likely you are to develop fusel alcohols which taste
bad and take time to go away.
> Do I need to sulphite or add campden tablets at all, the thought of
> adding chemicals to something so pure sounds quite revolting and the FAQ
> recommends just heating it in hot water for beginners but that doesn't
> sound like it would sterilise it.
Heating the honey-water to 160F and holding it there for 20 minutes will
sterilize it sufficiently. You don't NEED Campden tablets (which ARE
sulphites), but you MUST use very good sterilization techniques if you are
not going to use sulphites.
> When bottling I'd also want to stop
> fermentation (after a while, I like the sound of sparkling mead) without
> unnatural chemicals, to me this also sounds very impossible unless
> anyone knows of anything.
Potassium sorbate, the chemical most often used to arrest fermentation, is
perfectly natural, safe, and mostly tasteless. Many commercial wineries use
"wine conditioners" to stabilize and sweeten their wines; "wine conditioner"
is nothing more than a sugar syrup with a bit of potassium sorbate and
sometimes a pinch of acid.
A friend recommends rinsing the bottles with a tiny bit of bleach before
bottling; she says it leaves no odor or taste, but is enough to kill the
yeast - I've been afraid to try it.
Randy
****************************************
RandomTag: Zero to Bitch in 2.3 seconds.
------------------------------
Subject: Cautions with Ginger mead
From: PHREDLESS@aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 15:02:34 EDT
I made a ginger mead 6 years ago. It ages very well, but... at 20 ounces for
5 gallons, it was plenty strong. I mean, this stuff was hot like eating
straight ginger. After 6 years, it is nicely mellowed, so be careful with ginger
amounts. My general method is half the fruit in the beginning, half towards
the end of ferment. I think this might be something very wise to follow with
ginger. A biologist friend of mine informed me that ginger is very strongly
anticeptic, so large amounts of it will slow the ferment. I noticed, with just
the 10 ounces at the beginning it was an unusually slow ferment. Finally, I
grated my ginger, to extract as much flavor as possible.
------------------------------
Subject: spruce, plums, etc.
From: "Chuck Wettergreen" <wintermead@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 14:03:16 -0500
In MLD #1019, Dick Dunn told us that Ken Schramm's book is
*FINALLY* available.
Thanks Dick. And thanks Ken, I can hardly wait.
"Steve C." <sacampo@frontiernet.net> asked:
> OK, so I have honey from my hive & rose petals from my rose bush. I've
> tried to find a definitive rose petal mead reciepe to no avail. Does
> anyone have one they could pass on with some detail?
Check out Rec.crafts. meadmaking. I've seen a bit of discussion
lately on rhodamels lately, I believe. Of course the MLD archives
are also a good place to look.
"Howard & Patty Curran" <OCurrans@cfl.rr.com> asked,
> Plums will be available at the end of this month, and I would like to
> make a six gallon batch of semi-sweet plum melomel. Does anyone have a
> good recipe they would like to share? Is there any significant
Split about 20 pounds of plums and then freeze them. A day before
making the mead, thaw the plums. Take a 7 1/2 gallon poly primary
fermenter, pour in 15 pounds of honey, add 4 gallons of hard room
temperature water and stir until the honey is totally dissolved.
Add the plums. Fill the fermenter until it is full, stir. Proof
two 5g packs of either Lalvin K1 V1116 or D-47 exactly according
to package directions. Probably wouldn't hurt to add the
recommended amout of pectic enzyme. Pitch the yeast and stir.
Seal with top and stand back. This will ferment very very fast
(if the room is 65-70 degF). Punch down the fruit twice a day
with a sanitized spoon. Did I say sanitize all containers and
utensils (preferably with iodophor) before beginning?
After a week, put a sanitized grain bag over your racking cane
and secure it with a rubber band at the top. Rack off thge fruit
to a carboy. Don't bother to try squeezing the fruit, they will
be mush by this time. Take a gravity reading. If you've done it
right you will probably be close to 1.000. Let stand for a couple
of days then rack off the dropped yeast. Taste it. If it's too
dry, add honey and if it doesn't start fermenting again, bottle,
but be careful that it actually is finished. Wait until it
clears, which should be very soon, then bottle.
> difference between the black and the red plums? I have a choice of
Both plums will produce a wonderful pinkish-red mead.
> goldenrod honey (that smells wonderful) and citrus honey that is very
> clear and has little aroma (it was a bad spring in the groves). The
> citrus and orange blossom honeys have worked well for my tropical fruit
> melomels, but I am leaning toward the goldenrod for the plum melomel.
> Any comments?
I'd use the goldenrod. The plums will add a lot of flavor and the
citrus probably will not come through.
"Micah Millspaw" <MMillspaw@silgancontainers.com>
> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:50:04 -0500
> I have tasted a number of spruce beers and meads over the years.
> Some not to bad, others, eh... well.
> My advice is to make a small amount. Unless you are a big fan of
> Pinesol, it will take a long time to get rid of the spruce mead.
> It could end up one of those things where one bottle is very
> Interesting, but you don't really want to have a 6 pack.
Excellent advice from Micah. A little bit of spruce goes a long,
long way...
: Linda Short <lc_otter@yahoo.com> asked about rhodamels:
> Actually, I have two questions.
> I don't have enough money to buy bottles right
> now. How long can I let it sit in the secondary
Save your wine bottles, take off the labels with soaking and
scratching.
> fermenter, or would it help to rack it into a
> tertiary carboy? There's a layer of lees about a
You should rack it. However, it won't hurt to let it for a few
months.
> Second question has to do with a hydrometer.
> I had a hydrometer, it worked just fine until I
> stepped on the tube and popped it. The
> thermometer looking thing is fine, just the tube
> it came in was popped. I bought a new tube the
> other day and used it. There was alcohol in the
> rhodomel, I could taste/smell it. However, the
> hydrometer said there wasn't any. Could the fact
> that the new tube is wider than the old one was
> be effecting it's efficiancy?
An hydrometer measures the specific gravity of dissolved solids
in solution, in this case, the dissolved honey/sugar, or in other
words, the potential alcohol represented by that amount of
dissolved sugar. When the the honey/sugar is fermented out and
turned into alcohol, the hydrometer sinks lower because the sugar
is gone and thus the potential for more alcohol is less.
"Thad Starr" <Starr@epud.net> asks about Mazer Cup judging.
> I submitted 2 meads, a show and a melomel. The Marion berry Melomel entrant
> I was very proud of, and thought would do very well, scored poorly. I don't
> question the tasters remarks, because they were very consistent, just what
> caused the flavors they detected.
> Both tasters remarks said the mead's AROMA was "a bit of a sharp note
> (sulfite?) maybe a little like insecticide?" and "earthy, and something
> sulfur like?" And FLAVOR "Insecticide like note is a problem" and
> "something chemically that isn't pleasant". Then DRINKABILITY "Very nice
> except for off -note - perhaps a result of an additive?" and "I can't get
> past the sulfur/chemically characteristics"
> This confuses me. I didn't use additives or treat the berries with
> pesticides, so the flavors came from somewhere else, but where?
> Is it just using the Marion berry? do they throw off some weird flavors?
I've heard of people making mead from marion berries and don't
recall the mention of off flavors. Check the archives of the MLD
as this is where it was discussed.
The flavors that the judges mention are most likely esters which
can be caused by fermenting at elevated temperatures. They may
also be caused by using a yeast which is noted for producing
esters like a Belgian yeast. Yeasts can also produce sulfur
notes during fermentation, but they usually disappear with
multiple rackings. So which yeast did you use, and what was the
recipe and particulars of the fermentation?
Cheers to all,
Chuck Wettergreen
Meadmaker
Beekeeper
Geneva, IL
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mazer Cup Results
From: Robert Sandefer <melamor@vzavenue.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 16:34:15 -0400
Thad Starr is confused by the judges comments on his meads.
Well, here are some hypotheses that you can examine, discard, or accept as
your procedures allow.
(Note that I haven't competed, but that the comments you report allow
several possible hypotheses.)
A sulfur or chemical (especially if it was solvent-like) aspect could come
from wild yeasts (especially if you don't boil or sulfite your musts).
Solution would be to sanitized your must somehow.
Some yeast strains (e.g., Red Star Pasteur Champagne) can produce notable
sulfur levels. These age out (in my experience).
Montrachet yeast can produce hydrogen sulfide, a very objectionable aroma
and flavor. Solution is not to use Montrachet yeast.
Your meads could have been young (and by that I mean less than 2-3 years
old). Solution is to age it and the problem may disappear or diminish.
The judges could have made a mistake. People make mistakes. I do find it
very interesting that one judge is identifying "insecticide" when your
berries hadn't seen any. Solution is to ignore the judges and drink what
you want to drink.
Some unknown chemical may have found its way into your honey. A neighbor
spraying near the hives, city mosquito spraying, etc. Solution is to try to
identify the source and prevent it for next year's crop.
Hope this helps.
Robert
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1020
*******************************
