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Mead Lovers Digest #0987
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: mead@talisman.com
To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #987, 20 January 2003
Mead Lover's Digest #987 20 January 2003
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Tartaric Acid ("Dan McFeeley")
Re: Clearing a non-boiled/non-heated mead... ("Dan McFeeley")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #986, 17 January 2003 (JayAnkeney@aol.com)
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #986, 17 January 2003 - Floating Fruit ("Stephen M...)
Re:Fining Mead (JazzboBob@aol.com)
Re: sulphite use in making mead ("Ken Taborek")
Re: Floating Fruit ("Ken Taborek")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #986, 17 January 2003 (Galenflys@aol.com)
Re: MLD #986, 17 Jan.'03 Caustic sulfites, ballasting fruit bags, Famou ("...)
Plastic or Glass? ("Steven M. Parrish")
Re: Clearing a non-boiled/non-heated mead... (Marc Shapiro)
Re: Sulphite solution - caustic? (Marc Shapiro)
Re: Clearing a non-boiled/non-heated mead... ("Ken Taborek")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
a searchable MLD archive at hubris.engin.umich.edu/Beer/Threads/Mead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Tartaric Acid
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:24:00 -0600
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, in MLD 986, Thad Starr wrote, in part:
>I know the importance of PH and it's proper balance, but what
>effect does TA play? I've seen a spread in TA from my honey
>(musts) from .03% tartaric - .70% tartaric. I have no idea what
>significance this has towards fermenting or flavor profile. Is
>there a "range" meads should be in? How could you adjust
>it to get to this optimum range?
The pH is much more important in fermentation than TA. The late
Roger Morse found a window of sorts for starting pH in order to
obtain a good fermentation -- about 3.7 to 4.6. This was in his
research published in 1966. Some of the older sources on mead
will say that yeast need an "acidic environment," suggesting that
honey must needs acid additions at the start of the fermentation
but this is inaccurate.
Given the wide range of flavors and composition of varietal
honeys, it is really difficult to give a specific TA range for
mead. Older sources used to give the same amount of
acid additive for meads, regardless of the type of honey
used, usually around 4 teaspoons per five gallon batch, or
thereabouts. By ignoring the contribution to flavor profile
of the honey, advice like this was essentially saying that
the primary factor in flavor profile is the acid additive. This
of course, isn't true. Probably the best place to start is
to taste the finished mead and decide for yourself if it needs
a little acid. If the mead tastes fine by itself, consider leaving
it alone. Many meadmakers use no acid additives at all, and
achieve balanced meads that have placed well in competition.
Another important point to keep in mind is that the standard
acid testing kits used in winemaking do not give accurate
TA results when used for mead. Honey is chemically
different from grape must and as a result, needs an entirely
different titration process in order to determine TA. Briefly,
the primary acid in honey is gluconic acid, produced by the
action of glucose oxidase, an enzyme secreted by the honeybee.
Glucose oxidase words on the glucose sugar in honey,
changing it to gluconolactone. Some of the gluconolactone
spontaneously changes to gluconic acid, leaving the two,
lactone and acid, in a pH dependent relationship with each
other. A pH dependent relationship in this case means that
changing the pH of the honey must will spark a chemical
reaction between lactone and acid. Raising the pH, as is
done when a standard acid testing kit is used, causes the
lactone to change to more acid, thus lowering the pH again
and skewing the results of the TA measurement. For this
reason, standard acid testing kits used for winemaking
don't give accurate results when used in meadmaking.
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Clearing a non-boiled/non-heated mead...
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 10:24:20 -0600
On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, in MLD 986, Alson Kemp queried:
>Time to bring up an age-old and much repeated discussion:
>how do you clear a unheated mead? . . . .In the past I've
>used Isinglass followed by a bit of Bentonite to fine cloudy
>meads. Had reasonable success, too. . . . I realize that some
>unheated-must will fall clear, BUT if you have had to fine
>your mead, what have you done and what results have you had?
I've had limited success with Bentonite, but Sparkalloid seems
to do the trick every time. Be sure to follow the directions for
preparing the solution.
In the same digest, Brendon Cloete asked:
>Just out of curiousity, who in history was known for drinking
>mead? I know that it was the "grape" wine back in the day,
>so alot of people drank it, but who was recorded in history
>for drinking it? So far, I have read that Shakespeare's
>favourite drink was mead and Atilla the Hun preffered his
>mead dry. Anybody else?
How about Pollio Romulus, who lived to 100 and attributed
his long life to Welsh metheglin rubbing "oyl" on his limbs
(Robert Gayre, _Wassail! In Mazers of Mead_ p. 23).
Or the Irish saint Finian, who was said to break his fast
on Sunday with salmon and a cup of clear mead.
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #986, 17 January 2003
From: JayAnkeney@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 14:10:25 EST
In a message dated 1/17/03 10:20:22 PM, mead-request@talisman.com writes:
<< Just out of curiousity, who in history was known for drinking mead? >>
Brendon,
Besides various Viking and Celt clans, you can find references to famous mead
drinkers all through the heroic poems of Homer. The Greeks called it
"Ambrosia" or "The Nectar of the Gods". I'll be interested in other specific
figures submitted by the readership.
One point I've never understood, however, was what kind of mead they were
drinking. My meads often have alcohol levels over 12%. I can't envision the
Vikings as pinkie-raising tipplers, but if they quaffed mighty masers of a
high alcohol beverage like a premium octane mead to fire up for a campaign I
doubt if they could get up the next morning and attack England.
Some say they had a higher tolerance for alcohol than we do today, but I'm
skeptical about human livers having evolved that much since then. Did they
water it down? Or mix it with other beverages? Or were they really aiming at
France and just got too plowed to find it?
Jay Ankeney
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #986, 17 January 2003 - Floating Fruit
From: "Stephen Murphrey" <swmurph@attglobal.net>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:25:22 -0500
Kelly asked about a floating bag of berries. One simple way to sink the bag
is to put some sterilized glass marbles in the bag, to weight it down.
Sterilize the marbles with boiling water, first. This probably means that
you cannot ferment in a carboy, because of the narrow opening.
Steve Murphrey
------------------------------
Subject: Re:Fining Mead
From: JazzboBob@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:43:48 EST
I sometimes add a tablespoon of Polyclar (PVPP) to my mead when racking it
from the primary. This gets the ball rolling to clarify the mead in case it
seems slow to clear. Then I rack it again and add Sparkolloid. This usually
clears the mead overnight but I'll let it sit a week before racking again.
At this point it's bright as a star. I let it mature in a carboy until I get
around to bottling day. I then bottle directly away the minor amount of
sediment that appears from aging. I know this sounds like many rackings that
could expose my mead to oxidation but I purge my carboys with CO2 so the mead
is always transferred into an inert environment. Also, I'm usually doing
several batches at a time so I top off each carboy by blending a bit so that
they stay full to the brim without creating a large air space. The last mead
I rack gets downsized into a 3 gallon carboy instead of a 5 and I fill a few
sample bottles with the leftover mead. I've had meads sit for a year or two
in carboys to bulk age before I bottle them .
Time is your ally for clear meads.
Cheers, Bob Grossman
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
in the past I've used Isinglass followed by a bit of
Bentonite to fine cloudy meads. Had reasonable success, too.
(Though I would recommend letting the mead sit for a few months
(after the post-fining rack) to make sure that everything
precipitates.)
I realize that some unheated-must will fall clear, BUT if
you have had to fine your mead, what have you done and what
results have you had?
-Alson
------------------------------
Subject: Re: sulphite use in making mead
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek@verizon.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:50:03 -0500
> From: "Asher Reed" <clvwpn5@hotmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 03:20:27 +0000
[snipped]
> Sodium or potassium metabisulphite are not needed for mead making
They aren't needed for wine making either. Grape juice and yeast get the
job done. But the vast majority of commercial wineries use sulfites despite
this. Why? Because they have the benefit of years of experience and
knowledge to draw upon. The rest of us can avoid a lot of potential
pitfalls by taking advantage of this knowledge and experience. Sulfites
protect the wine/mead in several different ways.
They:
Protect the must from unwanted yeast and bacteria;
Protect against oxidation;
Help preserve color;
Extend the shelf life;
Stating that sulfites are not needed in mead making is similar to saying
that commercial yeasts are not needed in mead making, and that home mead
makers can just let the yeast on the fruit or in the air or honey ferment
their must. It's a true statement, but it doesn't begin to explain the
negative impact that following this advise can have on the readers mead.
- --
Regards,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Floating Fruit
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek@verizon.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 12:14:42 -0500
> From: "Kelly Levely" <tybowkites@hotmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:09:59 -0500
>
> Hello All
>
> I started a batch of my mulberry cyser (Moonlight Mush) this weekend and =
> I put the berries in one of those handy mesh bags to make it less messy =
> for the clean up. Well I'm having the same problem I do with the =
> berries alone. They float. How do you get your fruit to set down in =
> the must? As it is now only about the bottom third of the bag is in the =
> must.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kelly
Kelly,
Simply push the bag down into the must a few times per day for the first few
days, perhaps a week. You can wait until the more vigorous fermentation has
begun to do this if you choose.
I suppose you could try to weigh the bag down, but while aerating the must
and taking samples to get readings off of, pushing down the fruit is a
fairly simple thing to do.
- --
Regards,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #986, 17 January 2003
From: Galenflys@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:40:21 EST
> Hello All
>
> I started a batch of my mulberry cyser (Moonlight Mush) this weekend and =
> I put the berries in one of those handy mesh bags to make it less messy =
> for the clean up. Well I'm having the same problem I do with the =
> berries alone. They float. How do you get your fruit to set down in =
> the must? As it is now only about the bottom third of the bag is in the =
> must.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kelly
> You need to put something on top of the fruit bag to hold it down. My
first instinct is to make a wooden float out of beech, maple, or some other
hardwood that has either no flavor or a very pleasant one. On second
thought, use a piece of rigid plastic cut to the size of the fermenter, and
weight it down with a rock. As with anything else that comes in contact with
your batch, use the same standards of cleanliness and sterility that you use
with your other equiment.
Galen A. Davis, 17 Fred Jackson Rd. Southwick, Mass. 01077
(413) 569-5148
------------------------------
Subject: Re: MLD #986, 17 Jan.'03 Caustic sulfites, ballasting fruit bags, Famou
From: "Arthur Torrey (no spam please!)" <atorrey@cybercom.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:43:15 -0500
> Subject: Sulphite solution - caustic?
> From: Mark Kornell <mkornell@shaw.ca>
> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 13:36:09 -0800
>
> I made a potassium metabisulphite solution about 2 months ago, and stored it
> in a jar, intending to use small amounts from time to time for airlocks,
> Last week, I went to use some of the solution, and noticed that the lid had
> corroded through in about half a dozen small spots. Of course, I had to
> throw the solution and the lid out.
>
> How corrosive is a sulphite solution? Or, actually, the fumes from the
> solution - the jar was only half full, so there was no contact between the
> lid and the solution.
>
> Would this happen with any type of metal lid, or would it just be something
> to do with the type of metal used in this particular lid? Any suggestions
> for a better type of non-reactive container for storage?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark Kornell m k o r n e l l at shaw dot ca
>
I don't know specifically about how caustic sulfite solutions are, but I
have a sneaky suspicion that you are ending up with some kind of sulfuric
acid blend on the lid which will eat just about anything metal (and
possibly clothes, fingers, etc..., depending on strength, sulfuric acid is
nasty stuff)
I would suggest looking for something in the way of a plastic lid -
perhaps a soda bottle? If that doesn't work, there are plastic ware
containers made specifically for use in chemistry, I'm sure one of those
would work.
------------------------
> Subject: Floating Fruit
> From: "Kelly Levely" <tybowkites@hotmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:09:59 -0500
>
> Hello All
>
> I started a batch of my mulberry cyser (Moonlight Mush) this weekend and
> I put the berries in one of those handy mesh bags to make it less messy
> for the clean up. Well I'm having the same problem I do with the
> berries alone. They float. How do you get your fruit to set down in
> the must? As it is now only about the bottom third of the bag is in the
> must.
>
> Thanks
>
> Kelly
I had the same problem with my latest batch of cranberry mead - I added
weight to the bag, and tied it tight enough (actually I used a zip tie)
that the fruit couldn't float to the surface. What I used for weight was
a bunch of glass marbles, they are not going to react with anything in the
mead, and were handy. I found them fairly cheap at one of those
'everything for a dollar' type stores. I also use them to make up volume
in a carboy when I don't have enough mead to get rid of most of the
headspace.
Marbles work well in a carboy because they are easy to get in and out of
the neck of a bottle, but don't do as well for weighting down a fruit bag
in primary because they don't have much density. I found that by the time
I had enough weight to sink the fruit, plus the 5 gallons or so of must, I
was very close to the top of my 7 gallon primary bucket and had a little
trouble overflowing the airlock.
Any suggestions for higher density weights that are as inert as glass
might be helpful.
> Subject: Famous mead drinkers
> From: "Brendon Cloete" <kluta@telkomsa.net>
> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 23:45:01 +0200
>
> G'day estutes
>
> Just out of curiousity, who in history was known for drinking mead? I
> know that it was the "grape" wine back in the day, so alot of people
> drank it, but who was recorded in history for drinking it? So far, I
> have read that Shakespeare's favourite drink was mead and Atilla the Hun
> preffered his mead dry. Anybody else?
>
> Brendon.
You might want to check out Papazian's (sp?) book, it has alot of
historical info on famous mead drinkers. There aren't alot that I know of
in the way of modern historical figures of the verifiable sort. Mead went
out of fashion towards the end of the middle ages, so most of the
definitely identifiable figures of recent history drank other things.
If you go back further in time, you find more alleged famous mead
drinkers, but it becomes harder to tell which really existed, and even
harder to get solid evidence of their drink preferences. Even
Shakespeare's existence as more than a pen-name has been questioned. At
least some of the Arthurian legend versions have Arthur and the rest of
his Round Table buddies drinking mead. Earlier stories like Beowulf and
the like also have mead drinkers, and again it is debateable what their
reality levels are.
There is at least some level of historical evidence of when and where
different beverages were invented, and during what times and social
classes they were popular; and given that, it can be guessed what a given
figure was LIKELY to drink given the time and place they lived. However
this would be speculation at best.
ART
------------------------------
Subject: Plastic or Glass?
From: "Steven M. Parrish" <smparrish@shallowcreek.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:52:37 -0500
I've been using a plastic fermenter but dont like it for 2 reasons. I cant
see what is going on -( and the lids are a pain in the rear to get off.
Any pros for staying with plastic or any cons for switching to glass primaries?
Thanks in advance
Steven
- --------------------------------
Never be afraid to try something new.
Remember one amateur built the ark,
and a group of professionals built the Titanic.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Clearing a non-boiled/non-heated mead...
From: Marc Shapiro <m_shapiro@bigfoot.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:56:17 -0500
"Kemp, Alson" <alson.kemp@cirrus.com> said:
>
> I realize that some unheated-must will fall clear, BUT if
> you have had to fine your mead, what have you done and what
> results have you had?
I never boil my meads, just add the honey to boiled water (or almost
boiled fruit juice) once it is off of the heat, and they almost always
fall clear. It may take half a year of racking every couple of months,
but they come clear. One the few occasions when this was not sufficient
I have used bentonite with mixed results.
- --
Marc Shapiro "If you drink melomel every day,
m_shapiro@bigfoot.com you will live to be 150 years old,
Please visit "The Meadery" at: unless your wife shoots you."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ -- Dr. Ferenc Androczi, winemaker,
Little Hungary Farm Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sulphite solution - caustic?
From: Marc Shapiro <m_shapiro@bigfoot.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:00:07 -0500
Mark Kornell <mkornell@shaw.ca> asked:
> How corrosive is a sulphite solution? Or, actually, the fumes from the
> solution - the jar was only half full, so there was no contact between the
> lid and the solution.
>
> Would this happen with any type of metal lid, or would it just be something
> to do with the type of metal used in this particular lid? Any suggestions
> for a better type of non-reactive container for storage?
I had the same problem many years ago, so now I use only glass jars with
plastic lids for sulfite solutions.
- --
Marc Shapiro "If you drink melomel every day,
m_shapiro@bigfoot.com you will live to be 150 years old,
Please visit "The Meadery" at: unless your wife shoots you."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ -- Dr. Ferenc Androczi, winemaker,
Little Hungary Farm Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Clearing a non-boiled/non-heated mead...
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:33:44 -0500
> From: "Kemp, Alson" <alson.kemp@cirrus.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:47:54 -0800
>
> All,
> Time to bring up an age-old and much repeated discussion:
> how do you clear a unheated mead? This question has been asked
> before, but I thought that I'd bring it up again to elicit new
> information/thoughts.
>
> I've got two test batches of mead: one boiled-must
> Sanddune mead and one unheated-must Sanddune mead. After 2
> months, the difference in clarity is startling: the boiled-must
> mead is sparkling clear and the unheated-must is completely
> cloudy. This mirrors my experience with other meads, too.
>
> In the past I've used Isinglass followed by a bit of
> Bentonite to fine cloudy meads. Had reasonable success, too.
> (Though I would recommend letting the mead sit for a few months
> (after the post-fining rack) to make sure that everything
> precipitates.)
>
> I realize that some unheated-must will fall clear, BUT if
> you have had to fine your mead, what have you done and what
> results have you had?
>
> -Alson
Alson,
What is in a sanddune mead?
I have never boiled my must and have only had one batch that failed to drop
clear using only time and pectic enzyme. And the one batch that did not
clear was my fault, really, since I was in hurry to bottle it for a family
gathering and didn't give it the time and enzyme it needed to clear on it's
own. The bottles in the refrigerator dropped a lot of sediment but still
were just barely hazy, and I'm sure some enzyme would have cleared the
remaining haze away.
I still have an unopened bag of sparkeloid that I bought long ago thinking
I'd need to fine my meads...
- --
Regards,
Ken
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #987
*******************************
