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Mead Lovers Digest #0960
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: mead@talisman.com
To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #960, 4 October 2002
Mead Lover's Digest #960 4 October 2002
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
virus circulating, but NOT from the MLD (Mead Lovers Digest)
Re: Acid and pH questions (long response) ("Dan McFeeley")
Oxygen, fruit and ascorbic acid ()
RE: Elderberrys (are the poison?) ("John Ver Valen")
Cyser Question (Joe Nelson)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
a searchable MLD archive at hubris.engin.umich.edu/Beer/Threads/Mead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: virus circulating, but NOT from the MLD
From: mead@talisman.com (Mead Lovers Digest)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:16:16 -0600 (MDT)
Apparently at least one subscriber to the digest has had a computer infected
with a virus, and one virus is forging headers to make it look like it came
from this digest, except that it shows as mead-request at cantv.net, which
is not at all the right origin. That variant includes a few lines from an
old digest (I think #902 from Feb of this year). Another one, with the
subject "Honey" contains a few lines of what appears to be a private
message about Canadian honey. Neither of these are originating here.
These viruses are sending mail to people whose addresses have appeared in
past MLDs--so if you have posted an article to the digest you might see a
copy of one of these viruses showing up on your machine. Beware.
Other than that (which I can't help), I wanted to tell all of you:
* The MLD is not the source of these viruses.
* The MLD is *always* pure simple text. There are never attachments
to a digest.
* I'm extremely careful to avoid the possibility of sending viruses via
the MLD. Nowadays I check the contents of each digest, and digests
are not sent automatically--I type the command to send them.
(Addendum for nerds: I don't run any Microsoft systems or apps here, and
I don't even run any apps which can treat mail as "active". An incoming
virus looks like a core dump. I discard incoming attachments, even html.)
If you see a virus or a suspect message or a problem that appears to be
coming from the MLD, I would like to assure you that it is almost cer-
tainly a forgery. But if you really can't lay worry to rest, or if you
think there may be something that other MLDers should be warned about,
contact me at the admin address (mead-request@talisman.com). I'll check it
out and let you know what's up. However, please DO NOT try to post an
article to the digest itself about viruses.
- ---
Mead-Lover's Digest mead-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Acid and pH questions (long response)
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:23:08 -0500
On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, in MLD 959, Rick Dingus wrote:
>I'd appreciate any feedback on the following questions:
>
>1. I read somewhere that adding 1 tsp. of citric acid to a mead is
>equivalent to adding 2 tsp. of acid blend. Is that true or not? If so,
>does that refer to pH, titration, or the subjective perception of citric
>acid's sharper taste?
It's difficult to say whether these two are equivalent or not without
knowing what acids were used to make up the blend. Acids have
different strengths, according to their molecular makeup, which is
how equivalencies are determined. Available acid blends are usually
made using tartaric, malic and citric acid, but in varying rations.
Looking at your figures, you're saying 1 tsp of citric acid is as
strong as 2 tsp of acid blend, which likely includes citric acid as
one of the ingredients in the blend. That doesn't sound right.
Below is an acid equivalency chart that should be helpful. Titration
kits will give a figure for acid expressed as tartaric acid, which is why
the first column starts with tartaric acid. Acid expressed as sulfuric
acid is the standard used in France, probably Europe as well. For
that reason I've included a column for sulfuric acid, as a reference
for European recipes that use acid expressed as sulfuric acid. Acton
and Duncan's 1965 book on meadmaking, for example, gives figures
for acid expressed as sulfuric acid.
What the acid equivalency columns mean is that, looking at the first
row for example, 1.0 ppt of tartaric acid will neutralize the same
amount of a known base as 0.893 ppt of malic acid, 0.933 ppt of
citric acid, or 0.65 ppt sulfuric acid.
CORRESPONDING ACIDITIES IN PPT OF VARIOUS ACIDS
Tartaric Malic Citric Sulfuric
1.0 0.893 0.933 0.65
1.5 1.34 1.4 0.975
2.0 1.787 1.867 1.3
2.5 2.233 2.333 1.625
3.0 2.68 2.8 1.95
3.5 3.127 3.267 2.275
4.0 3.574 3.733 2.6
4.5 4.02 4.2 2.925
5.0 4.467 4.667 3.25
5.5 4.914 5.134 3.575
6.0 5.36 5.6 3.9
6.5 5.807 6.067 4.225
7.0 6.254 6.534 4.55
7.5 6.7 7.001 4.875
8.0 7.147 7.467 5.2
8.5 7.594 7.934 5.525
9.0 8.041 8.401 5.85
9.5 8.487 8.867 6.175
10.0 8.934 9.334 6.5
>2. If ascorbic acid is used to preserve fruit color and/or reduce
>oxidizing in a finished mead, should its affect on the overall
>acidity be taken into account? Will boiling or pasteurizing
>the ascorbic acid alter its effect?
Certainly, ascorbic acid will add to the total acid content of the mead.
Boiling or pasteurizing the honey must won't change the acidity. As a
side note, boiling does reduce the nutrient level in the must. Roger
Morse demonstrated this in his 1953 experiments on honey fermentation
at the University of Cornell.
>3. I'm confused about the relationship and difference between acid
>titration and pH, as well as how much leeway there is for good fermentation
>and good taste with varied levels of acid. I once purchased a titration
>kit and carefully adjusted the acid in a grape wine only to find later that
>the kit was old and the weakened testing solution had caused me to add way
>too much acid. Is the acid level in mead as important as the acid level
>supposedly is in grape wine? Can anyone clarify my confusion about
>titration vs. pH, and whether or not its even worth the effort to test?
>(If so, what's the best method?)
It's not worth the cost of an acid titration kit because they don't give
accurate results in meadmaking. The primary acid in honey, and in
mead, is gluconic acid. Gluconic acid in honey co-exists in a pH
dependent relationship with its lactone, gluconolactone. When the
pH is raised, as occurs during the standard titration process used
in titration kits, the gluconolactone changes to more gluconic acid,
thus lowering the pH again. This reaction between acid and lactone
while measuring TA in a mead will throw off your readings, making
them inaccurate.
Honey varies widely, in acid content, pH, and most importantly, in flavor.
For that reason, the palate is likely the most reliable guide in deciding on
amount of acid to be used in a mead, rather than quantitative measurements.
Your pH reading might be telling you one thing, but a taste test could tell
you something entirely different.
You might want to consider not using acid at all. Many meadmakers don't
use acids, or acid blends in their meads and they remain well balanced.
Again, taste the mead and see what you think. If you like the taste of an
acid tang in your meads, then by all means, add what you think works best.
If you like just as it is, then your mead is done.
Older recipes and guidelines for meadmaking regularly included acids as
one of the ingredients. The thinking seemed to be that a good mead
needed to be made like a good wine, with sufficient acidity for crispness
and tannin for astringency. Country wine recipes for mead, for example
followed this thinking with the use of citrus for acidity and a few
tablespoons of strong tea for tannic astringency. They weren't
necessarily bad meads and certainly were a style of mead in its own
right. Many meadmakers today, however, are working more strongly
to find ways to best express the character and flavor of its honey/s,
rather than follow guidelines drawn from winemaking,
or country winemaking.
Hope this is helpful!
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: Oxygen, fruit and ascorbic acid
From: <vince@scubadiving.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:04:55 -0400 (EDT)
No, the above is not my new recipe, it's about more FAQ I have to submit to
the collective expertise:
1) trying to answer Rick Dingus' question:
Ascorbic acid is antioxidant AND acid. In case you didn't know, it is
vitamin C. Chew on a vitamin C and you will taste the acidity (even if it's
sweetened-usually it is).
The way antioxidants work is that they get oxidized first, hence the food
products containing them remain "safe" at least until the antioxidants wear
out. By definition, these products are fragile and most of them (including
ascorbic acid) are destroyed by heat. Add them after cooling.
The second question from Rick was about pH vs. titration.
In short, pH will measure "free" acidity or concentration in [H+] in the
solution whereas titration will measure the "free+ bound" acidity, this is
free [H+] ions as well as the ones still attached to the acid molecule [A-
H]. The reason is that the strong base you are adding is displacing the
[H+] that are attached to their (weak) acid molecules, counting them as
well. Now, I will rely on someone else to explain WHY exactly people are
doing titrations (probably to know how much acid potential is present for
fermentation purposes- I just don't know better). But my guess is that the
acidity you taste and the one "perceived" by your favorite yeast is
the "free" one, measured by the pH.
If you need to adjust your acidity, it will be more precise to titrate and
calculate the acidity before acting.
If you need to check it to see if your yeast will thrive, pH may be
sufficient (mead veterans, please correct me if I'm wrong - I have some pH
knowledge but far less mead knowledge)
If it's for the taste, well... taste it and see (that's what I do).
>From what I read it seems like acidity is less of a concern with mead than
it is with wine or beer (not stuck too often).
Note: based on the fact that lemon juice contains both citric and ascorbic
acids, I tried lately to decrease the use of acid blend and to replace it
at least partially if not totally with some lemon juice, trying to keep my
mead just a little more natural. We eat (drink) enough chemicals already.
2) Now I have a question on oxygenation. I've seen a few times a
recommendation to aerate the must before fermentation to give the yeast a
happy start, and I've seen the "high tech" version of oxygenation step in
the form of an oxygen tank with a dissolving stone to saturate the must
with O2 before pitching. These are not too expensive (found for $35 - I
could go for that) but does it work? Does it improve fermentation and/or
taste, or could it damage (oxidize) the must or possibly a little bit of
both? Is air sufficient and more foolproof?(needless to say, if one chooses
to oxygenate with O2, one should wait until the yeast used the O2 before
pitching ascorbic acid for the reasons explained above). I only fermented a
few batches but all fermented good (and kind of strong) except for one--
possibly because it was too heavy in honey--without bubbling anything in
them.
So in short, is O2 necessary, desirable, or a just gadget? Would you rather
use the aquarium pump (with a filter) or nothing at all?
Thanks in advance
3) quick question/observation about fruit: I tried to add some strawberies
(6lb/3gal), prickly pears (44 fruits-1 case/3 gal), cherries (about
4lb/3gal). I left my fruits in the mead for about 3 weeks (time of primary
fermentation). I got very nice colors but virtually no fruit taste in
comparison with my plain mead (the strongest tasting was the strawberry,
still faint). Is it because I didn't use enough fruit or could it be
something to do with the fermentation (kind of fast @ 72 degrees)?
Thank you all for your tips and tricks in reply to my previous submissions.
Til' next digest..
Vince Galet
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Elderberrys (are the poison?)
From: "John Ver Valen" <jvervalen@tds.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:55:42 -0700
I have been reading all the answers to this question, but I have
not seen the right answer yet so I will add it.
Yes elderberries can and are poison, but only if they are the red
ones. The blue are safe to eat. I live in Washington state and the
rule of thumb we have always used is if it is red and you do not know
what it is do not eat it for it is probably poisonous.
And if you live in Alaska, don't eat any because they are all
poisonous. (the one that are native there.)
Have fun and brew on.
John Ver Valen
------------------------------
Subject: Cyser Question
From: Joe Nelson <some1_ate_my_capn_crunch@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:15:42 -0700 (PDT)
Hello Listers,
Quick Cyser question:
Can I still use preserved Cider??? I kinda missed
cider season around here but would still like to make
a batch of cyser for my father as a Christmas present.
Is there any way that I can use preserved cider in a
cyser??? Maybe use a can of unpreserved apple juice
concentrate??? He isn't a big alcohol drinker so I
thought that the alcohol from the honey would be
enough.
Not really sure, just wondering if anyone had any
thoughts on this one.
Thanks,
Joe Nelson
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #960
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