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Mead Lovers Digest #0965
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
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To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #965, 31 October 2002
Mead Lover's Digest #965 31 October 2002
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Time left leting the fruit float (Darinbruck@aol.com)
Rhodomel (Nathan Kanous)
Honey Question (Nathan Kanous)
RE: Rhodomel ("Christopher Hadden")
tannin required? ("Mark Ellis")
Re: Did I ruin my mead? (LJ Vitt)
Vicky & The Rhodomel ("Kemp, Alson")
()
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #964, 28 October 2002 ("Ron York")
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #964, 28 October 2002 ("Elyusian")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Time left leting the fruit float
From: Darinbruck@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:51:07 EST
I asked a few digests back on how long I should let the unsinkable pineapple
sit in secondary and got I wide swing of times from the few people who
responded to me privately. Is there a proper time to let the fruit sit in
secondary? If this could be kind of a survey I personally usually let the
stuff start to fall a part before racking it over. How long do all ya'll let
it sit? Thanks
------------------------------
Subject: Rhodomel
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:03:41 -0800
Good Evening,
Vicky and Christopher are waxing poetic on the virtues of Rhodomel. I have
a batch that's in mid-process. My plan is to use rosewater rather than
rose petals. One thing I noticed with the rosewater is that it gets
"soapy" if left exposed to oxygen. I'll be adding the rosewater and some
antioxidants at bottling time but the "test bottle" with a sample of the
base mead and some rosewater added was quite nice.
nathan in madison, wi
------------------------------
Subject: Honey Question
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 22:09:41 -0800
Good Evening,
I've just spoken with my father-in-law. During honey harvest he came
across two interesting hives. He's got a cousin that's a master gardener
that maintains about 5 acres of "exotic" flowers. They may not be exotic
to a master gardener but to those of us that tour his garden, we're duly
impressed.
Anyhow, my father-in-law noticed that the honey from these two hives (an no
others in the entire harvest) was very dark. He describes it as being
strong in flavor like buckwheat honey but with an odd, almost bitter
aftertaste that he indicates doesn't come immediately in the aftertaste but
in the "late" aftertaste.
Have any of you encountered honeys with a slightly bitter aftertaste? How
might they perform in a mead? I would also entertain any recipe
suggestions for a dark honey mead such as one might use for a buckwheat
honey mead. I don't find very much in web searches and welcome input.
The honey is not going to set me back much financially so I'd like to make
a mead....if it doesn't come out well...no harm done. Any help is appreciated.
nathan in madison, wi
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Rhodomel
From: "Christopher Hadden" <chadden@contecrayon.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 01:12:18 -0600
> Good Evening,
> Vicky and Christopher are waxing poetic on the virtues of
> Rhodomel. I have
> a batch that's in mid-process. My plan is to use rosewater rather than
> rose petals. One thing I noticed with the rosewater is that it gets
> "soapy" if left exposed to oxygen. I'll be adding the rosewater and some
> antioxidants at bottling time but the "test bottle" with a sample of the
> base mead and some rosewater added was quite nice.
> nathan in madison, wi
Nathan,
I don't know if you've seen that Beck's commercial but I wax poetry like
Germans do stand-up comedy. ;-)
How much rosewater did you use for your test bottle (what were the
proportions)? I've been thinking of making a rhodomel in this way.
Let us know how it turns out.
Christopher Hadden
------------------------------
Subject: tannin required?
From: "Mark Ellis" <mark@artisansrus.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:47:32 +1100
G'day All,
I wanted to seek opinion from you whether or not you should add
tannins to the must? It seems that there are 2 different schools
of thought out there, those that "au naturale" and those that add
tannin via tannic acid or brewed tea.
Is this more of an issue with light flavoured honey?
Interested to see some discussion on this.
Cheers
Mark E. in Oz
http://www.Artisansrus.com
Promoting the Ancient Fermentable Arts
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Did I ruin my mead?
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:36:08 -0800 (PST)
In MLD#964 Lindi asked about what to do after clarifing her concord pyment:
> I used 1 gal of that water to dissolve the honey, then pastuerized it,
>added the juice concentrate, the acid blend packet in the mead kit and the
>yeast nutrient in the mead kit (as per the kit instructions). Cooled it
>down a bit, and poured it in the primary with 2 gallons of the above water
>that had been chilled.
I want to comment on the acid blend. I fill it is not needed with
the grape concord juice you added. There should be enough without adding
the acid blend. If it turns out there is not enough, the acid blend can
still be added later.
>Saturday 10-18-02, we
>tasted it again. It was still good, still strong, but somewhat cloudy. It
>also tasted almost fizzy. Anyway, it hadn't been bubbling any, so I decided
>to clarify it so I can bottle it. The kit came with this stuff called Agar
>Agar to use as a clarifier. It looked kind of like the Sure-Gel stuff you
>use to make jelly with. I mixed it according to the instructions, and mixed
>it in my mead, but it didn't settle out. Instead, I now have what looks
>like mead jelly floating on top of my carboy. Help! Should I just go ahead
>and bottle it, or should I try to rack it again and then bottle it, or is
>all lost and I've destroyed what could possibly have been a good mead!
My suggestion is to rack to another container and wait a few more weeks.
I assume you want to bottle it still. You want to carbonation to be
gone when you bottle it, if you want it to be still. If you want it
carbonated, then that is not a problem.
Be patient. I spend a couple of years getting my meads into the bottle.
I prefer not to use clarifiers. They will clear up given time -- months.
I ALWAYS rack to a new container to bottle. I want to leave any sediment
out of the final product.
=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN
------------------------------
Subject: Vicky & The Rhodomel
From: "Kemp, Alson" <alson.kemp@cirrus.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:15:52 -0800
Vicky,
Quick question: when you pulled the cheesecloth bag out,
did you squeeze the roses out? They do soak up quite a bit of
liquid. Or did they?
Another alternative: (less natural) I've made rose
distillate using vodka and rose petals. The distillate can be
used to flavor meads to taste.
General note to those interested in Rhodomels: the type
of rose (obviously) has a remarkable effect on the Rhodomel. I
advise you to do some testing with the roses and mead before you
go for a 5G batch. Just pour a couple of glasses of mead and
drop single-variety rose petals in each glass. Cover with
plastic wrap and place in the fridge or on the counter top.
After a few hours or a day, you should be able to smell the roses
in the mead.
For other people's reference, I've attached your recipe
below.
-Alson
- --
Vicky's Rhodomel recipe
12-9-01
Boiled 1 gal water, then dropped to simmer and added 1 gal
blackberry honey., Poured onto 3 more gallons cool water,
and pitched with Red Star Montrachet yeast, and added yeast
nutrient.
When my roses bloomed (heirloom roses, red, pink and yellow), I
gathered the blossoms and froze the petals until I had a gallon
freezer bag full.
Let the must ferment in pail until 5-27-02 (this was supposed to
be a blackberry mel originally,. but I changed my mind when my
roses bloomed their silly heads off this year).
On 5-27-02, I racked the must onto the rose petals, which I'd
stuffed into a cheesecloth bag, still frozen.
Checked it on 6-10, and it has a lovely dark rose color, and a
wonderful rose flavor, but it also has a slight sort of
oily/soapy film on the top which I'm hoping will age out. It is
otherwise fabulous, and I'm planning on racking off the roses in
about another week, maybe less.
- --------
------------------------------
Subject:
From: <vince@scubadiving.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:48:04 -0500 (EST)
This is to answer Joyce's request about wine yeasts. I have limited
experience but I have some comments:
I used several yeasts (Pasteur Champagne, Cotes de blancs, prise de mousse,
Montrachet, 1116, 71B 1122 and Wyeast dry mead) but regardless of the yeast
used, most of the time I got about the same FG (around 0.996-0.998) when I
made my mead dry (not too much honey). I got larger gravities with more
honey, just because the yeast stopped fermenting at some point and there
was residual sugar.
My point is that any yeast will ferment up to its max alcohol tolerance.
The FG should always end around 1 because virtually all the sugar will be
fermented, unless you overload the alcohol tolerance (with more honey).
The final gravity will depend on a) the sugar (honey) you added initially
b) yeast alcohol tolerance and c) other conditions like nutrients,
temperature etc...
a) and especially c) will vary from batch to batch and you can only get a
ballparkof the yeast "performance" (as you can see in the examples you
provided about Vierka mead and Red Star ale, SG is not directly linked to
FG when you use the same yeast--results may vary)
Therefore I'm not sure collecting data on various SGs/FGs will help you
that much as it does not only depend on the yeast.
On the other hand, the % alcohol tolerance is usually known (i.e, champagne
= 18%, montrachet = 14%). If you use a calculation with honey alcohol
tables, knowing the max % alcohol, you can calculate the FG (residual
sugar) and % alcohol and my guess is that it is as good as empirical data
you get from everyone's batches.
As far as I am concerned, my SG is always measured at a higher temperature
than my FG (after I pasteurize and cool some vs after sitting in my--colder-
- -basement), + my hydrometer is supposed to be calibrated for 60 deg F so
the whole thing is an approximation, the most important being the FG to see
if it's done fermenting. Kind of reinforces my feeling that calculations
and mostly measuring the quantity of honey are good enough (but maybe I'm
an heretic as I'm not using a standard controlled environment).
These are just my thoughts and the mead veterans may confirm that
- - yeast behavior is more or less predictable, go for the tables.
- - or on the contrary obeys to some obscure laws so calculations are not
reliable (then why would we have tables?).
- - yet a ballpark is all you can get because conditions (and recipes) vary,
- - or when you have very standard conditions you get a repetable result
(note that this would involve more or less sticking to the same recipe too)
One thing maybe less published is the flavor different yeasts impart to the
mead. A little while ago I posted what I found here and there in MLD#947.
Some info is from users, a lot is from web sites (hence more theoretical).
I would be interested in knowing more about people's favorite yeasts
including taste, likelihood of off flavors (fusel alcohols, yeasty taste,
sulfury taste, nice or excessive esters...), body, speed of fermentation
and sedimentation (my Wyeast dry doesn't want to clear, champagne gave me a
very clean result). I know these vary with the fermenting conditions as
well but there is still a different character depending on the yeast. So
what's your faforite?
On another topic, I noticed that 35 MLDs from now (still a few months away
but fast approaching) we will reach MLD #1000. Dick, you should have
a "special" with your favorite recipe or something to celebrate. Love my
MLD!
Vince
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #964, 28 October 2002
From: "Ron York" <r.york@greenspan.com.au>
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:40:47 +1000
Hello
I would like to comment on the statement in the e-mail below about the
taste of eucalytus in Australian honey. This not the case. The main flavour
that comes through is usually related to the type of blossoms the bees have
been feeding on. Occassionally strong tastes are present in any honey and
you need to taste it before you buy. Generally the darker the honey the more
interesting the flavour. I find most lite honeys lacking in character.
I recently brewed a batch using Queensland Ironbark honey(The Ironbark gets
it name because the timber is a very strong hardwood used in house
construction). The honey is very dark in colour and has a fragrent taste.
While the mix was boiling I also added a little Cinnamon and Star Anise. The
Star Anise flavour was a little to strong to begin with but after a few
months of storage the brew has settled back to a nice flovour. The colour of
the brew is very dark and I thought it may be from floating particles at
first but it is not getting any lighter. I took a sample to work where I
have access to a Turbidity Meter which gives you a reading of the particle
load in a liquid(a handy thing for a brewer to have) and it showed up a low
reading. So my brew will remain dark and taste great.
Mr Ron York
Sensor Manufacturing Team Leader,
Greenspan Technology PTY LTD,
Division of TYCO Flow Control Pacific,
22 Palmerin Street Warwick,
Queensland 4370 Australia.
Tel:+617 4660 1888 Fax: +61 7 4660 1800
r.york@greenspan.com.au
www.greenspan.com.au
- -----Original Message-----
From: mead-request@talisman.com [mailto:mead-request@talisman.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 29 October 2002 12:23 PM
To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #964, 28 October 2002
Subject: Pomegranate molasses; leatherwood honey.
From: Adam Funk <adam.funk@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:16:13 +0000
I was considering some alternative ingredients (for beer and/or mead) in the
supermarket yesterday and would be interested in anyone's opinions of them.
"Pure pomegranate molasses" seemed about as viscous as fairly thin honey.
The nutrition information indicated 8.0g carbohydrate, of which 7.0g sugar,
per 100g of product -- this seems rather low for something syrup-like. (I'm
under the impression that honey is usually around 85% fermentable sugar.)
Tasmanian leatherwood honey -- is this likely to be offensive? I've read
that Australian honey is completely unsuitable for fermentation because the
eucalyptus flavour comes through strongly.
Thanks,
Adam
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #964, 28 October 2002
From: "Elyusian" <ferret@wolfandferret.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:20:34 -0800
*
*Subject: Bracket vs. Braggot
*From: "Christopher Hadden" <chadden@contecrayon.com>
*Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 00:19:38 -0600
*
*Can anyone help me understand if there is a difference between bracket
*(also
*brackett) vs. braggot? I'm doing some research for a future version of
*AboutMead.com which will be launched shortly.
*
*Provided below are a few references I've found:
*
*>From http://www.bjcp.org/styleguide25.html (25G. Braggot):
*"Meads made with both honey and malt providing flavor and fermentable
*extract. Originally, and alternatively, a mixture of mead and ale."
*
*>From honeywine.com:
*Bracket - Honeywine and ale combined
*Braggot - Honeywine made with Malt
*
*>From _A Sip Through Time_ by Cindy Renfrow(p. 6):
*"A Welsh drink that is a combination of ale and metheglin."
*
*>From _Brewing Mead_ by Robert Gayre (p. 157):
*"Bracket is, like cyser, pyment, mulsum and melomel, a hybrid liquor, in
*that, in this case, it is a compound of mead and ale."
*
*>From _Making Mead_ by Bryan Acton and Peter Duncan (p. 54):
*Braggot is defined as malt extract + honey fermented together.
*
*>From _Dictionary of Beer and Brewing_ by Carl Forget (p. 30):
*"bragget. Honey-sweetened spiced ale or a mix of mead and ale."
*"bragot. An ancient Welsh drink consisting of beer, honey, cinnamon and
*'galingale.' It also was known as heroe drink."
*
*Thanks,
*
*Christopher Hadden
*http://www.aboutmead.com/
*
*------------------------------
Based on the definitions and examples given above I would venture to say
that bragget and bragot are merely different ways to spell the same
thing. Your first definition has one being made with ale and the other
being made with malt, however ale was made (originally) with just malt
and even further back was made with honey and honey/malt mix ("Wassail!
In Mazers of Mead" by Lt. Colonel R. Gayle). So essentially the same
ingredients for one product with two names.
Plus from "The Closet of Sir Kenelm Digby" he has a recipe for a Bragot
that is made from what was then considered an ale (but really a beer,
just like today's ales are) and a metheglyn.
If desired from "The Closet..." I can provide said recipe for Bragot, as
well as original style of Ale (Malt, yeast and water, no hops or barley
or any of the other ingredients that make a beer). Either privately or
to the Digest, just ask.
Mind you, I only have a few books and I am just beginning in mead
making, so this is my 2 cents worth...
Elyusian
ferret@wolfandferret.com
- ---"A man is as young as the woman he feels."
- --- Groucho Marx
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #965
*******************************
