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Mead Lovers Digest #0927
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: mead@talisman.com
To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #927, 6 May 2002
Mead Lover's Digest #927 6 May 2002
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Chocolate Mint ("Paul Gatza")
RE: rainwater for cherry blossom mead ("Gregory Lorton")
RE: Houston, we have a problem (Joe Kaufman)
Re: Chocolate Mint ("Susan Ruud")
Rhodomel question ("Kemp, Alson")
RE: Subject: rainwater for cherry blossom mead ("P. D. Waltman")
Re: King Midas; mead, beer & wine mixed. ("Dan McFeeley")
Hydration issue, Sodium ("Ken Schramm")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #926, 3 May 2002 (Arcturus)
Name that country ("Gregg Stearns")
adding rasins (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hrafnkell_Eir=EDksson?=)
Gettingout the stopper. ("Chuck Wettergreen")
Caustic soda ("Arnold Fox")
Re: rainwater for cherry blossom mead ("Ken Taborek")
Purchasing Honey (Aaron)
Re: Houston, we have a problem (Lynette Tait)
cherry blossom honey ("Eric Brown")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
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Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Chocolate Mint
From: "Paul Gatza" <paul@aob.org>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:16:34 -0600
It's been about eight years since I used chocolate mint, but my recollection
is that I cut two stalks of chocolate mint and plucked the leaves and tossed
them into secondary fermentation. My guess is that I probably used about 30
leaves. Also a word of warning if you grow your own--they will increasing
grow above, through and around other plants in the garden, so just plant a
little and give the mint it's own space to grow.
Paul Gatza
Director--American Homebrewers Association
Director--Institute for Brewing Studies
Association of Brewers
736 Pearl St., Boulder, CO, USA 80302
+1.303.447.0816 ext. 122
mailto:paul@aob.org
www.beertown.org
------------------------------
Subject: RE: rainwater for cherry blossom mead
From: "Gregory Lorton" <glorton@cts.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:51:58 -0700
Charles wrote
"My question,,, I have collected some rain water and have boiled it
and am ready to use it for making mead... I would guess it would be a
very soft almost neutral water without any other minerals as in well
water and any scuzz from a water source as a lake or river or where =
ever,
leaving the mead to have no other outside minersals to affect the taste =
of
honey in the mead....
What do you think,,,,??????/"
Rainwater might not be quite so pure, and is probably slightly acidic. =
At a minimum it will contain carbonic acid, and depending on where you =
live maybe a little sulfuric and/or nitric acid. All of this would have =
been picked up in the atmosphere (e.g., acid rain). Boiling it should =
drive off the CO2, though.
The other problem is that you will need to add some minerals to help the =
yeast, particularly calcium, but also several other cations (along with =
some suitable anions) :-)
Cheers
Greg
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Houston, we have a problem
From: Joe Kaufman <sutekh137@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 10:58:05 -0700 (PDT)
Selkie,
> In an overzealous moment of trying to get a good airlock last fall, I pushed
> the stopper down too far into the neck of the carboy. According to my brew
> guy, he got a batch of carboys that had a neck "slightly" too large, and it
> appears I bought one of them.
Always a dreadful situation!
> It's been fine until now, but eventually I'm going to have to get it out so
> I can bottle it. I've tried sterilizing a coat hanger and pulling it out, but
> it bends, and it won't budge. Anyone have any ideas how to get it out?
Can you get the mead out through the stopper hole (I don't know...will that
extra rubbery exposure cause off-flavors, anyone?) and then once the carboy
is empty, go to town on the stopper using fire, or a knife, whatever you can
to get it pulled out or broken down so it falls out. I would worry about
almost any extrication means while the mead was still in there, as any
particles or chips from the stopper could get into the mead. Could you
perhaps stick a racking cane in (hook end up) the stopper hole and get it
pushed all the way down so as to siphon the mead out? I realize your
stopper is probably extremely tight, both in lodging against the glass
and in terms of the internal stopper hole... Maybe try to find smaller
tubing to suck the mead out with?
I guess you can tell I am mainly concerned about getting the mead out
first so that no rubber (or, god forbid, glass) gets in there. Let us
know what methods you use, and I am very interested to hear from some
of the emeritus of the group...
Joe Kaufman
=====
People inside me are asking me to blow up City Hall,
'Cause everybody's rock 'em sock 'em robots.
- Tenacious D
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Chocolate Mint
From: "Susan Ruud" <susan.ruud@ndsu.nodak.edu>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 13:00:11 -0700
: Subject: Re: Chocolate Mint
: From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
: Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 14:26:33 -0500
:
: On Wed, 01 May 2002, in MLD 925, Aaron asked:
:
: >Has anyone out there made a mead from chocolate
: >mint? I remember that there was some discussion
: >about it a while ago, but I can't recall seeing a recipe.
Hi, I made a Chocolate Mint Mead, Sweet, high gravity using Chocolate Mint
leaves from a mint plant. There is a Chocolate Mint plant although I can't
remember where I bought it at - probably from a catalog such as Park Seed.
It turned out fairly good although after a few months the chocolate mint
seemed to fade but after about 2 years (there was a gap in there where I
didn't drink any of it so them time may be less) the Chocolate Mint really
came out nice. I only have 2 bottles left and really wish I had more. Time
to make it again.
Susan Ruud
------------------------------
Subject: Rhodomel question
From: "Kemp, Alson" <alson.kemp@cirrus.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:22:49 -0700
Well, my latest obsession is to make a rhodomel. As
such, all of the rose bushes around my house have been stripped
of their petals and the petals have been frozen.
Now the question is: how do y'all recommend that I treat
the rose petals?
1) pasteurize honey with petals. Remove petals.
Ferment.
2) pasteurize honey with petals. Don't remove petals.
Ferment. Remove petals after a day or so.
3) Boil rose petals in water. Remove rose petals. Use
water to make mead.
4) Put petals in water. Put honey in water. Put yeast
in water. Stand back.
4a) Remove petals after a day of fermentation.
4b) Leave petals in until the end of fermentation.
Simple, eh?
- Alson
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Subject: rainwater for cherry blossom mead
From: "P. D. Waltman" <pdwaltman@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 11:31:43 -0700 (PDT)
Depending on what part of the country you live (and
which country for that matter) I might be careful
using it. Some rain water is not completely safe to
drink.
You could use distilled water (I have for alfalfa
honey) and add some minerals to help the yeast if you
are concerned.
Also what have you gathered your rain water in? How
did it get to that container? Both are conditions you
should consider before using rain water.
P. D. Waltman
------------------------------
Subject: Re: King Midas; mead, beer & wine mixed.
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 14:03:40 -0500
On Wed, May 2002, in MLD 926, Adam Funk wrote:
>
>I found a link to this article in Explorator, an archaeology-related
>e-newsletter.
[....]
I tried clicking on the link but couldn't get to the site. If anyone
else had problems, there's more info on the University of Penn
site. Try this link:
http://www.museum.upenn.edu/Midas/acknowledgments.html
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: Hydration issue, Sodium
From: "Ken Schramm" <SchramK@resa.net>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:50:08 -0400
The question of how earlier civilizations made it through life without
eight glasses of water a day is one that must be considered in light of
whether ot not there were commercial interests out there getting rich by
making sure you drank eight glasses of their bottled water a day.
Just as they folks who produce and sell foodstuffs are saying that you
need to consume all manner of bread products, dairy foods and meat (and,
for that matter, fruits and vegetables) every day. If you tried to eat as
many servings as they recommend in the "food pyramid," you'd be blimp in
a month.
Humans around the world have lived on far less of what our FDA says, and
diets and liquid intakes far different than what is prescribed by
commercial interests.
>From a historical perspective, rural populations also relied to some
extent on safer water from wells and rainwater cisterns. Those were not
options readily or predictably available during military campaigns,
though.
Dave Burley is spot on with the sodium comment. Don't use Bicarbonate of
Soda. I have only one data point, but by the time the pH was in range, it
was a very salty data point. It was a cyser, it ended up far too tart,
and didn't have any CaC03. Being impatient, I tried some bicarb. Bad
move.
Ken Schramm
Troy, MI
Apple blossoms and warm clear weather. Yahoo!
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #926, 3 May 2002
From: Arcturus <arcturus@accesscomm.ca>
Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 15:39:48 -0600
I want to thank Dick Dunn for his advice on Cysers. I have a question about
this method that Bruce Brode wrote about in Issue #924. Here is the quote:
>Subject: Pectin, acid, etc.
>From: "Bruce Brode" <BruceB@cpandb.com>
>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:15:34 -0700
>
>Pectinaze, or pectic enzyme, is best used before fermentation. The danger
>with using it during or after fermentation is the potential for creating
>methanol, something you definitely do not want. In terms of clearing haze
>from mead, I have had success using a double fining method: Bentonite
>followed immediately by Sparkolloid. Follow the package directions but be
>conservative on the Bentonite as one can strip some flavor out by using
>too much. The Bentonite certainly works for attracting albumins and the
>Sparkolloid helps that complex to settle out.
My question is, how immediately is "immediately"? One right after the
other in the same evening? Or "immediately" from the point of view of the
mead - so like a week or two? I'm not being facetious here, I get the
feeling you mean within a day or two, but I just want to be clear. (Actually,
I want my mead to be clear). I'm going to try this with my infamous Cyser
that is giving me trouble and see if it helps.
Another question for the group: Is there an easy way to calculate the
equivalent of sugar in fruit juice to normal bottling sugar? I've seen some
suggestions that fruit juice added after the main fermentation is complete
makes for a stronger taste. I wanted to add some raspberry juice to my batch
of Ginger Beer (I know its not mead, but it could have been). I mentioned
this to the guy at the wine shop and he pointed out there could be quite a
bit of sugar in the raspberry juice and I could be making bottle bombs. So
then I got all paranoid. I couldn't figure out what a "safe" amount of
raspberry juice would be, and how much sugar each cup of juice would equal.
I ended up erring (I think) on the side of caution, and used 1.3 cups of
Corn Sugar for the batch (65 bottles). 24 bottles went in without any
raspberry juice, then I added 1/2 cup to the remainder and stirred itin,
bottling another 41 bottles with just a touch of raspberry.
Are there any guidelines anywhere on what is safe, or how they convert,
or does anyone have any great personal experiences that could save me a big
mess and several experimental batches before I get it right?
- --
*--Arcturus--*
A.K.A. Steve Wilde
My problem may be ignorance or apathy
Frankly, I don't know and I don't care.
------------------------------
Subject: Name that country
From: "Gregg Stearns" <gregg@ispi.net>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 10:01:15 -0500
Hello again everyone:
I was approached by the producer of the television show "The Thirsty
Traveler", which is going to do a show on mead.
He heard that Poland is an excellent place for traditional meads. I
searched the MLD archives, and found some info for him.
If you'd like to voice your opinion, you can go to http://www.meadhq.com to
submit feedback. Simply click on the main article "The Thirsty Traveler"
and at the bottom of the following page, you can post a comment.
(I didn't know if the MLD was the best place for answers to this question)
On a side note, if anyone wishes to write articles for Mead HQ, email me
off-list (Gregg@ispi.net)
Thanks!
- --
Gregg Stearns
Gregg@ispi.net
editor in chief
http://www.meadhq.com
------------------------------
Subject: adding rasins
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hrafnkell_Eir=EDksson?= <he@klaki.net>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 21:12:11 +0000
Hi
Just started a batch of cyser. 50% apple juice, 50% honey must
resulting in a SG of 1.080. Added yeast nutrition and Lalvin D-47 yeast.
I plan to add more honey when fermentation has started. I want it to
result in a semi-sweet cyser.
I've also been wondering if I should add rasins to the must but have
no experience with that. Any hints or pointers? What effect does it have
on the taste?
If I do it, should I take some precautions to prevent that the rasins
infect the must? Heat the in a microwave?
Hrafnkell Eiriksson
------------------------------
Subject: Gettingout the stopper.
From: "Chuck Wettergreen" <meadmakr@enteract.com>
Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:49:16 -0500
In MLD #962...
> From: Jeremiah Rose <gojera@cayuse.net>
> Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:35:25 -0400
>
>
> >In an overzealous moment of trying to get a good airlock last
fall, I pushed
> >the stopper down too far into the neck of the carboy.
According to my brew
> >guy, he got a batch of carboys that had a neck "slightly" too
large, and it
> >appears I bought one of them.
This happens all the time. The solution is simple. Take a
standard small dish towel. Twist one corner and start feeding it
into the carboy, twisting and twisting until the towel is about
90% inside the carboy. The towel will fan out inside. Turn the
carboy upside down until the stopper is laying on the towel,
hopefully with the small end pointing towards the opening of the
carboy. It isn't necessary, but it makes it easier. Twist the
towel until it is wrapped around the stopper. Pull the towel,
with the stopper enclosed, out of the carboy. Sounds complicated,
but works every time.
Cheers,
Chuck
meadmaker
beekeeper
Geneva, IL
------------------------------
Subject: Caustic soda
From: "Arnold Fox" <runesterfox@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 00:50:07 +0000
Hello mead lovers,
I'm very concerned about several recent missives
recommending the use of caustic soda (NaOH) for raising the pH of brewing
meads. As a laboratory scientist, I can say the I've never come across food
grade Sodium Hydroxide. For obvious reasons, unless it is first completely
neutralized, it would quickly burn holes through your poor guts. Now,
granted your authors correctly advise about the hazards of physically
handling caustic pellets, but are they aware that technical (industrial)
grade caustic soda contains appreciable impurity levels of Sodium Cyanide
(NaCN) and Arsenic Oxide (As2O3)? It's no problem for the industial
processes that caustic soda is applied to, but if you intend to dissolve and
drink the stuff as a pH buffer component or otherwise then the trace
quantities of cyanide, in particular, will be immediately and acutely toxic
to you. Arsenic, on the other hand, is also very toxic but it's effect is
more cumulative. PLEASE SEE A PHYSICIAN if you have already ingested some
mead treated with caustic soda obtained from a industial or farm supply
store, particularly if you have subsequently experienced nosebleeds, mild
numbness, respiratory difficulty or intense headaches.
If you still insist on using caustic soda, then please purchase at least
"Spectral" analytical grade Sodium Hydroxide from a reputable laboratory
chemical supplier. It's expensive and it's nearly pure...so you'll live.
Arnold Fox
------------------------------
Subject: Re: rainwater for cherry blossom mead
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek@Verizon.net>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:34:39 -0400
> Subject: rainwater for cherry blossom mead
> From: "Charles Sroka" <yasb1@psbnewton.com>
> Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:53:25 -0500
>
> I am getting ready to make some mead using cherry blossom honey..
> I have heard it is one of the most delicate of honeys for mead making,
> My question,,, I have collected some rain water and have boiled it
> and am ready to use it for making mead... I would guess it would be a
> very soft almost neutral water without any other minerals as in well
> water and any scuzz from a water source as a lake or river or where ever,
> leaving the mead to have no other outside minersals to affect the taste of
> honey in the mead....
> What do you think,,,,??????/
>
> charles
> yasb1@psbnewton.com
Charles,
I'm guessing that your goal is to make a mead that allows the flavor of your
honey to shine through any (possibly) masking flavors. A worthy goal.
But...
Firstly, rainwater is not necessarily pure water. It can contain a lot of
undesirable elements, especially if you live in an area with a large
industrial presence.
Secondly, your yeast require minerals and vitamins that may not be present
in your honey. If your honey has been processed in any way, they are almost
certainly not present. So even a pure water, such as distilled water, isn't
necessarily the best water for use in mead makeing.
I'd suggest that you use a bottled spring water (available for about
$0.70/gallon in my area), and use a yeast nutrient to ensure your yeast will
have the viamins and minerals they will need to make your mead the best it
can be.
Regards,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Purchasing Honey
From: Aaron <gumbyk@ureach.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 10:41:17 +1200
HI All,
I have just found a great site on the 'net from which to purchase honey. Go
to www.honey.co.nz
They do international orders, and have some New Zealand native honeys from
which to make something a bit different. (Manuka honey makes a great mead).
I'm about to make a mead from their honeydew honey. I'll post what it turns
out like.
On another note, there was a discussion a while ago about using 'chocolate
mint' to make a mead. I now have some, but am looking for a recipe, if
anyone out there has one, or some guidelines for creating one, it would be
much appreciated.
Aaron Marshall
If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you've never tried before.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Houston, we have a problem
From: Lynette Tait <esmerel@logrus.com>
Date: Sun, 5 May 2002 18:20:24 -0700
Selkie wrote:
> <snip> I pushed the stopper down too far into the neck of the carboy.
> <snip> Anyone have any ideas how to get it out?
>Get an steel rod that's *just* small enough to fit into the bored hole
>in the stopper. Insert it through the stopper and then push the rod to
>the side and down. Use the rod as a pry-bar and the stopper should pop
>out with just a little bit of work.
You can also use a wire hanger. If you open it up, and then bend a
hook into it, and push that through the hole, and hook the stopper,
you should be able to pull it out pretty easily. I managed to shove a
stopper clear through the neck of a carboy once (I was feeling a
little annoyed at my boyfriend), and retrieved it at some point later
(he ended up proposing that night, I think, so it all turned out ok.
;) )
------------------------------
Subject: cherry blossom honey
From: "Eric Brown" <apicoltore@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 14:27:22 +0000
>Subject: rainwater for cherry blossom mead
>From: "Charles Sroka" <yasb1@psbnewton.com>
>Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:53:25 -0500
>I am getting ready to make some mead using cherry blossom honey..
>I have heard it is one of the most delicate of honeys for mead making,
You may have a very nice, delicate honey, but I seriously doubt it's cherry
blossom honey. I've been working bees for some time, including a year with
a pollinator who had sets in cherry orchards, and I've never heard or read
of any cherry honey. A lot of good nectar sources bloom right about the
same time as the cherry, and the cherry blossom is very visible and showy,
but I reckon you have something else. Where did you get your honey?
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #927
*******************************
