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Mead Lovers Digest #0931
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: mead@talisman.com
To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #931, 25 May 2002
Mead Lover's Digest #931 25 May 2002
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
First mead ("Joseph S. Gaglio")
Medieval drinking (Tim Bray)
RE: An aspiring mead maker ("Martin Smith")
First Mead -- MLD 930 ("Dan McFeeley")
re: A couple of questions from an aspiring mead-maker (LJ Vitt)
Scott's mead (LJ Vitt)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #930, 20 May 2002 (Christopher C Carpenter)
pine needle question ("mmeleen")
re: Sugar content of juice [was: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #929, 13 May 2 ("...)
pH and finishing time ("Dave Burley")
closures synthetic and otherwise ("Dave Burley")
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #930, 20 May 2002 ("Elyusian")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: First mead
From: "Joseph S. Gaglio" <jgaglio@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 00:26:51 -0400
> 12 lbs honey
> 15 tsp malic acid
> 7 1/2 tsp tartaric acid
> 1 1/2 tsp grape tannin
> 4 tsp yeast energizer
> 1 packet Yeast
>
> So, who has opinions on whether one way or the other is better?
>
I have used the "artificial" acid and nutrient with good results,
however this seems to me like an excessive amount of acid and nutrient.
With 12# of orange blossom honey, I used 2 tsp. Fermax and 2tsp. acid
blend.
> Also, what is your favorite yeast to use in a basic mead?
>
I've had great success with Wyeast 3184 ?Sweet Mead? in 16 0z. Apple
juice slurry. This sweeter version was agreeable to just about
everyone who tried it, even non drinkers.
> Now advice. My parents will celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary
> in August of 2003.
>
The first mead I made with this recipe was very drinkable after 6
months. You should have plenty of time, especially if you don't overdo
the acid and nutrient in which case it would take longer to mellow out.
Good luck,
joe
- --
Yours in truth,
Joseph S. Gaglio MHS
http://members.tripod.com/~The_Holeyman/TheHoleymansHome.html
"They counted on being able to punish them into being better, on being
able to inspire them into being better, on being able to educate them
into being better. And after ten thousand years of trying to improve people,
without a trace of success -- they wouldn't dream of turning their
attention elsewhere."
------------------------------
Subject: Medieval drinking
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:27:33 -0700
>This wasn't an either/or question,
>either drink ale and mead and live, or drink water and
>die from disease. They drank both, knew what water
>sources were tainted and which weren't.
Usually... As was pointed out, those who were most at risk were those far
from home; in the later Middle Ages, soldiers especially. "Bloody flux"
claimed more casualties during wartime than any steel weapons. And alcohol
sometimes caused health problems as well: During one of the Scottish
campaigns at the end of the 13th century, the English army nearly fell
apart because they ran short of provisions; when a ship finally came in, it
carried wine rather than food. Part of the army, already sick from lack of
food and drinking bad water, immediately drank the wine and became even sicker.
Such tales notwithstanding, in the main you are correct: people knew what
water was generally safe, and what wasn't, most of the time. And, romantic
nonsense aside, people really did drink the water! They drank a lot of
ale, too: about a gallon per day was a typical allotment for a working man
in late medieval England. I don't think I have seen any records of the
consumption of mead by Northmen, but the way it is described in
contemporary documents leads me to believe that it was a "special" drink
rather than an everyday one. It would have to be, given the limited
amounts of honey available.
Cheers,
Tim
Albion Works
Furniture, Clothing, and Accesories
For the Medievalist!
www.albionworks.net
------------------------------
Subject: RE: An aspiring mead maker
From: "Martin Smith" <yourruler@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:16:24 +0000
>Opinions first, please. In searching through the recipes available, I
>have found that some recipes seek to give the mead acid and body
>through the use of natural ingredients such as lemon zest and tea. Other
>recipes favor adding acid and tannin through chemical additives.
I think that both natural and chemical methods work well, but I personally
prefer natural ingredients as i find chemicals shall sometimes leave an
unpleasant taste that forces the mead to be left to mature for a while. I
have actually tried a tea mead and I can concur that it is very nice and
definitely worth a try, but it's worth experimenting with smaller batches
first to get the right amount and type of tea first.
>Also, what is your favorite yeast to use in a basic mead?
I personally use bread yeast which I get free from my local supermarket,
mainly because it's free, but it also ferments to a high proof (12-15%) and
doesn't leave any noticable taste. It's good for a beginner but no doubt
experts would have something to say about it!
>Now advice. My parents will celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary
>in August of 2003. It is my intention to make this mead as a gift to
>be served at the dinner that is being planned. Does this give enough
>time for the mead to finish?
Amply. If you started now you could probably have a mead ready by August
2002! However, I would recommend (sp?) experementing a lot in this period to
get it right for you and work out what is going to be the best recipe to
use: everyone has their own opinions and if you try both recipies then you
will form your own preference. There's plenty of time to do this, so don't
panic!
Martin Smith
------------------------------
Subject: First Mead -- MLD 930
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:20:08 -0500
On Mon, 13 May 2002, in MLD 930, Scott Slatton wrote, in part:
>I just made my very first mead.
[....] important stuff deleted for brevity's sake
> Having read several articles and beer books with a few mead
>recipes at the end i thopught this stuff was supposed to ferment
for months. but my result was similar to the primary fermentation
of beer. . . . Any comments or suggestions, or just to let me
>know if I'm on the right track to making good mead, please let
>me know. thanks, scott
The reports you've read on fermentations lasting for months or more
are, I would guess, old stuff, based on meadmaking prior to the 1970's.
Lots of things have changed since then!
Mr. Natural, Chuck Wettergreen, has posted on this list from time to time,
stating that he uses no chemicals, nothing more than yeast, water and
honey, yet continues to achieve fermentations of 3 to 4 weeks, sometimes
quicker, with little to no aging required. I've tasted his meads many times
and it's true, they ferment fast and are drinkable on bottling. Yet, his
results contradict these old reports. What changed?
Yeasts used in meadmaking are better, in fact, many of the strains used
today are adapted for low nitrogen musts. This was not quite the case
in the past. Meadmaking knowledge, although still largely empirically
based, has advanced considerably since those times. Roger Morse's
research during the 1950's, as part of the requirements for the Master's
degree at Cornell University, shows this. He made mistakes in his
experiments, but in spite of the fact that he did his research under the
supervision of a thesis committee, no caught them. It was the 1950's,
and although he made mistakes in his research, Morse was breaking
new ground in meadmaking.
Honey itself, the wellspring of meadmaking, is a widely variable product.
Some honeys ferment well, others not quite as well. Composition also
varies widely. The fermentation characteristics of the wine grape are
largely determined by the genetics of the grape itself, along with
seasonal fluctuations. The composition of honey is not determined
by genetics at all, only by floral source and seasonal variations, and
the practices of the bees in making honey. There's much more room
for change in meadmaking as compared with winemaking!
All in all, if your mead fermented well and fast, is drinkable and tasty,
in contradiction to what you've read about meads needing months to
ferment, don't worry about it. This is a good thing.
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: re: A couple of questions from an aspiring mead-maker
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:02:32 -0700 (PDT)
Doug asked some questions in MLD#930:
>Subject: A couple of questions from an aspiring mead-maker
>From: "Doug Essinger-Hileman" <revref@interior-castle.org>
>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 14:31:01 -0400
>I am a beer brewer of intermediate skill, and a winemaker of moderate skill,
>and have determined to make my first mead.
>Opinions first, please. In searching through the recipes available, I
>have found that some recipes seek to give the mead acid and body
>through the use of natural ingredients such as lemon zest and tea.
recipe cut
>Other recipes favor adding acid and tannin through chemical additives. One
>recipe for 5 gallons along this line is:
recipe cut
>So, who has opinions on whether one way or the other is better?
It's really up to you.
I like getting acid from fruit. But it sounds like you are making
a traditional mead not a fruit flavored. So, I would add acid
in the form of acid blend from a winemaking supply store.
>Also, what is your favorite yeast to use in a basic mead?
I'll give you 3:
liquid - Wyeast sweet mead yeast, or their dry mead yeast.
dry - Cote de blanc wine yeast
The recipes you gave had 12 lbs honey in 5 gal. You will not get a
sweet mead with only 12 lbs and the sweet mead yeast.
I like to use yeast energyzer and yeast nutrient at teh start of
fermentation (and in starter if you use one).
>Now advice. My parents will celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary
>in August of 2003. It is my intention to make this mead as a gift to
>be served at the dinner that is being planned. Does this give enough
>time for the mead to finish?
Yes, but don't waist any time. Make it quickly. As a wine maker,
you probably learned to rack several times to get it clear.
Make sure you don't wait too long between rackings. You should
be able to bottle it as a still mead in July 2003.
Since your doing it for a special occasion, make labels!
=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN
------------------------------
Subject: Scott's mead
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 08:19:09 -0700 (PDT)
In MLD#930, Scott asked about his quick fermentation:
>Subject:
>From: "Scott N. Slatton" <sktyby@bellsouth.net>
>Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:52:44 -0500
>I just made my very first mead. I made a 3 gallon batch with 5 pounds
>ov honey and 2 pounds of fresh strawberries(pureed). Using my home
>beermaking experience and some of my methods of not using any chemicals,
>I added water and champaign yeast, and thats all.The stuff started
>fermenting almost imediatly and went strong for five days then pretty
>much stopped on day seven. I checked it with the hydro and came up with
>a reading of 1.003. My question is this. Having read several articals
>and beer books with a few mead recipes at the end i thopught this stuff
>was supposed to ferment for months. but my result was similar to the
>primary fermentation of beer. I have racked into 2.5 gals off mead total
>and i'm just going to put it up to clear. Any comments or suggestions,
>or just to let me know if I'm on the right track to making good mead,
>please let me know. thanks,
Scott, you had a good start on your mead. The primary fermentation is over.
But, you used a yeast with high alcohol tolerance, and a low amount of
honey. So, the yeast MAY ferment the mead further, ,and do it slowly.
1.003 is not completely dry. Your mead could finish below 1.000.
This is possible because the specific gravity of alcohol is lower than
water. The driest wines finish at 0.990.
You racked at a good time.
Be prepare to rack more than once. It helps in clearing, to get he mead
off the sediment multiple times. You might wait 2 - 4 months between
rackings.
I keep telling people..
Mead is easier to make than beer, but requires much more patience.
=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #930, 20 May 2002
From: Christopher C Carpenter <chris.carpenter@ndsu.nodak.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:14:30 -0500
I would think the best way to preserve your rose petals
would be to make Rose water, and freeze it. To get the
best resuts of your rose water is to make it like Sun Tea,
put it in an enclosed container filled with water, and
gently brew it in warm water.. I have read hot water will
evaporate off much of the good stuff. You can also freeze
the petals, but I suspect it would do the same as drying
it...all the good stuff will evaporate away in the process.
Might as well take advantage of this time to update people
on my latest batches...Lavender and Lilac. They are
turning out GREAT. The Lilac is VERY strong, I would
recomend using half the flowers as fluid (2.5 gal of loose
flowers to 5 gal of must). The Lavender is 1 oz of
Lavender (Lavendula Angustofolia), for a 5 gal batch. Use
light honeys on both.
I wish you luck with your Rose Mead, and I envy your
possession of fine Heirloom bushes.
Chris Carpenter
- --On Monday, May 20, 2002 9:24 PM -0600
mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
> All the recent talk of rose petal mead (rhodomel) has me
> interested. I have four heirloom rose bushes with very
> fragrant petals. Unfortunately, four bushes is not
> enough to get me a bumper crop of petals for brewing.
> What's the best way of preserving them for later use in
> brewing? Should I dry or freeze them? Any suggestions?
------------------------------
Subject: pine needle question
From: "mmeleen" <mmeleen@tiac.net>
Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:55:39 -0400
Arcturus asked the following question:
I had a friend ask me a very interesting question that I would like to put
to the group: Has anyone ever done a Mead flavored with pine needles? Has
anyone heard of such a thing? What are everyone's predictions/experiences
with what such a Mead would be like?
In reply I can say that I have heard of a Greek wine called "Retsina" or
something to that effect, which is flavored, I believe, with pine resin.
While I have not tasted it myself, I have chewed pine gum, and it is a
very, shall we say, distinctive flavor.
Pine needles are quite acidic, so I would imagine that no acid
adjustment would be needed. Sounds like something to have a wee bit of
on Christmas maybe.
Let us know if you try it...
Mel
------------------------------
Subject: re: Sugar content of juice [was: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #929, 13 May 2
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek@Verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 12:48:29 -0400
> Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #929, 13 May 2002
> From: Arcturus <arcturus@accesscomm.ca>
> Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:08:37 -0600
[pine needle query snipped]
> Also, nobody chose to take a swig of my raspberry juice
> question, so I want
> to pose it again: How can I guess at the sugar content of a juice
> added just
> before bottling to gauge whether or not I will get glass grenades?
> - --
> *--Arcturus--*
> A.K.A. Steve Wilde
> My problem may be ignorance or apathy
> Frankly, I don't know and I don't care.
Steve,
Perhaps the juice packager lists the sugar content in the ingredients list
or nutrition information. They may be listed as carbohydrates. In which
case you should be able to calculate the sugar content by measuring the
volume of juice you'll be adding, and doing a little math.
It appears as though you have two goals. To make a sparkling mead, and to
add flavor from the juice. These don't need to be done all in one step.
Why not add the juice, allow it to ferment out, and then add a measured
quantity of sugar prior to bottling?
Cheers,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: pH and finishing time
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley@charter.net>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 06:55:27 -0400
Doug,
There is a big difference in wine and beer and making mead. With your
background you should use your skills to adjust the acidity to around 0.7 as
Tartaric acid and control the pH ( no naturally occuring buffers as in beer
or wine) with calcium carbonate in the 4s region. Add calcium carbonate
during the fermentation to do this - watch for foaming!
Your fermentation will be over in a short time and produce a good result.
Long fermenting meads are due to insufficient yeast nutrients ( add a source
of nitrogen and phosphorus ) and the precipitous dropping of the pH during
fermentation as acids are formed. Keep the pH in the region where the yeast
enzymes can operate efficiently.
Naturally occurring buffers and nutrients in fruit additives to meads often
allow a mead to finish quickly (answer to a question by another
correspondent on his strawberry mead finishing quickly) .
It is a myth that meads <need> a long time to finish, although many old
timey recipes along with an agressive racking program ( which removes
flocculated yeast) do take a long time, if ever, for the above reasons. You
just have to provide the correct conditions for the yeast and the mead will
finish in a few weeks - similar to wine - depending on the sugar content.
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Subject: closures synthetic and otherwise
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley@charter.net>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:02:58 -0400
Sorry if this is a late response but Dick Dunn was kind enough to inform me
that some posts were booted when I included the post in my reply.
- ------------------------
I was in the fortunate and unfortunate position of obtaining some synthetic
closures ( imitation corks) a decade or so ago.
As far as I know these were the first commercial ones available. I was asked
to comment on them. I found that these stoppers wrinkled when placed in the
corker and did not unwrinkle after insertion as they stuck to the glass wall
of the bottle. These wrinkles allowed air to pass around the stopper and
ruin the wine and in a few cases allow wine to leak around the stopper when
stored in an inverted position.
Adding silicone oil to the surface of the stopper would likely have helped
without affecting the organoleptic properties of the wine too much but the
manufacturer declined. Despite my comment and demonstrations, the trial
went on and hundreds of cases of wine at a famous CA winery were spoiled
and the stopper manufacturer went bankrupt.
I'm not saying the outcome would have been any different, but at least a
trial should have been delayed until the basic stickiness of soft plastic to
glass was resolved. I suspect the Oz results can to some extent be
explained by this phenomenon.
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #930, 20 May 2002
From: "Elyusian" <ferret@wolfandferret.com>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 18:28:37 -0700
*Subject:
*From: "Scott N. Slatton" <sktyby@bellsouth.net>
*Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:52:44 -0500
*
*I just made my very first mead. I made a 3 galllon batch with 5 pounds
*ov honey and 2 pounds of fresh strawberries(pureed). Using my home
*beermaking experience and some of my methods of not using any
chemicals,
*I added water and champaign yeast, and thats all.The stuff started
*fermenting almost imediatly and went strong for five days then pretty
*much stopped on day seven. I checked it with the hydro and came up with
*a reading of 1.003. My question is this. Having read several articals
*and beer books with a few mead recipes at the end i thopught this stuff
*was supposed to ferment for months. but my result was similar to the
*primary fermentation of beer. I have racked into 2.5 gals off mead
total
*and i'm just going to put it up to clear. Any comments or suggestions,
*or just to let me know if I'm on the right track to making good mead,
*please let me know. thanks,
* scott
*
I currently have two batches running that have shown the almost
same thing as you.
One batch I am making with is a "small-mead" (small melomel?)
with pomegranate, orange-blossom honey and champagne yeast (with a touch
of ginger and orange-peel), the other is a full traditional mead with
just honey, water and champagne yeast. They both started off very strong
until after my first racking at about 3 weeks. A few weeks later when I
racked again I took the readings. The pomegranate batch went from a
starting reading of approximately 1.1 to 1.01, the mead batch is
currently sitting at 1.1, I forgot to take the readings before I added
the yeast, but I estimate it to have been in around 1.2 to possibly 1.3.
Next time I make the must in the same fashion I will take readings so I
can estimate the alchohol content.
Although the main odd thing I've found is unless I keep the
temp. high (80+ deg F) the fermentation almost completely stops on them.
As far as I know this is not normal behavior.
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #931
*******************************
