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Mead Lovers Digest #0924
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: mead@talisman.com
To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #924, 27 April 2002
Mead Lover's Digest #924 27 April 2002
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
need some S.G. reading help please! ("Paul Hudert")
Alcohol tolerance in the past (Adam Funk)
Re: Northern Tipplers ("Dan McFeeley")
Must be a naysayer? ("Steve Gaskin")
Toning down the acid? ("Don Conley")
yeast nutrients & clarifying agents ("Eric Brown")
Pectin, acid, etc. ("Bruce Brode")
medieval mead (Dick Dunn)
FW: Corkin ! ("Berggren, Stefan")
Nutrient, lees, and yeast (Anthony.Karian@sce.com)
Re: Sherry yeast, and other good mead yeasts? ("Kemp, Alson")
Stockwood Ren Faire and Brew-Ha-Ha (Ross Cohn)
Roger Morse? (Russ Riley)
The queue: History, Acidity and Yeast ("Ken Schramm")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
a searchable MLD archive at hubris.engin.umich.edu/Beer/Threads/Mead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: need some S.G. reading help please!
From: "Paul Hudert" <paulgarbanzo@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:28:31 -0400
hey everyone,
need some help with some math!
I made a batch of some crazy way-too-sweet mead on April 1 of 2001
(Fool's Fruit I called it).
2 gallons of clover, and about 20 pounds of various berries.
strawberry, blueberry, boisenberry, and cherry.
topped it off with water to make a 6 gallon batch.
my initial S.G. reading 1.174 (no joke).
so, after taking the berries out and a couple rackings later,
I had about 4 gallons.
it was really thick, thicker than cough syrup. so I added
2 gallons of water to fill up the 6 gallon carboy.
(silly me did not take an SG reading before adding the water!)
ok, so now, 1 year later, the SG reading is 1.014
that's comes out to about 23% alcohol.
I know that's not right.
so I did some thinking, and figured if I had a 1.174 with a final
size of 4 gallons, then added 2 gallons of 1.0 water,
then my SG between what I have now should be 2/3rds of what it was before.
thus my new "starting" SG would be 1.116 (15.25%)
and my finished SG at 1.014 (1.5%) would give an alcohol reading of
15.25% - 1.5% = 13.75%
so.... is that right? anyone done the same thing? anyone out
there a math major?
I know, we all thought we were done with word problems in high school
I appreciate anyones help on this!
Paul Hudert
------------------------------
Subject: Alcohol tolerance in the past
From: Adam Funk <adam@ducksburg.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:02:36 +0100
> From: JayAnkeney@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:18:28 EDT
...
> scene from the movie "The Vikings", but I rather picture these warrior
> societies quaffing down great masers of fermented beverage. Yet if they
> were guzzling mead by the pint, how could they have taken off the next day
> to invade England? Or function on any sober level?
They were evenly matched because the Anglo-Saxons drank just as much? That
doesn't explain how they managed to sail in that condition, though!
> So how did these worthy stalwart and heathen rampagers drink their meads?
> Some have told me their alcohol tolerance was greater than ours, but
> considering the natural alcohol content of mead, they must have had quite
> amazing livers to have drunk mead in large quantities on a regular basis
> and survive. Others have said they watered the drink down to wine
> equivalency. Any input available?
I can contribute some odd bits of information but no definite answers.
We know the Romans commonly mixed wine with water, supposedly because they
didn't have safe, treated water -- although we now know that mixing them
does not make the water safe, so it was probably a cultural preference as
much as anything else. I don't know about the Vikings.
I think in many previous phases of European history it was common to drink a
lot more than most of us do today -- especially if you work it out in units
of alcohol (because beer is typically weaker now).
A Victorian example: Mrs Beeton's book on household management recommended
that nursing mothers drink a quart of stout in the morning, a quart of
porter in the afternoon and a quart of stout again in the evening. At that
time these would have been about 8% ABV -- I work that out to be 27 units of
alcohol per day. To put this in perspective, doctors in the UK currently
recommend a maximum weekly consumption of 21 units for men and 14 units for
women.
- -- Adam
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Northern Tipplers
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:48:31 -0500
On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, in MLD 923, Jay Ankeney wrote:
>Perhaps someone could answer a historical question. I understand that mead
>was the drink of northern Europe--Vikings, Celts, etc. But I cannot imagine
>these hearty types were tipplers interested in a sipping libation with their
>pinkies raised. Perhaps I'm swayed by the great "beer hall" scene from the
>movie "The Vikings", but I rather picture these warrior societies quaffing
>down great masers of fermented beverage. Yet if they were guzzling mead by
>the pint, how could they have taken off the next day to invade England? Or
>function on any sober level?
Although the Northern peoples and Celts were great lovers of the fermented
brews, they weren't quite the renowned tippers that we hold them to be. In
fact, there were many warnings in these cultures against excess drunkenness,
and not just to be able to hold a steady sword or axe the next day when it
was time to go raid England. These were warrior cultures, making it important
to keep one's judgment and tongue as unimpaired by alcohol as possible when
in the company of one's well armed peers. Boasting and taunts inflamed by
alcohol added up to a short life span in these societies.
Here a few examples -- from an old Anglo-Saxon riddle:
I am a binder and a scourger; straightaway I cast a young man
to earth, sometimes an old churl. Straightway he who grapples
with me and struggles against my strength discovers that he needs
seek the earth with his back. If he forsakes not his folly ere that.
Deprived of strength, doughty in speech, robbed of might, he has
no rule over his mind, feet, nor hands. Ask what is my name, who
those on the earth bind youths, rash after blows.
The answer to the riddle is mead, recalling a scene probably all too familiar
to Anglo-Saxon mead hall patrons.
A few others from _The Fortunes of Men_, another Anglo-Saxon poem:
. . . though the hand of the cup bearer become drunk; then he
finds that he cannot check his temper with his mouth, but has
to pitifully give up his life, must suffer great misfortune, deprived
of joys, and men call him a suicide and caution against the drink
of the drunken man.
Some angry ale-tippler, some man satiated with wine on the
mead-bench is deprived of life by the edge of the sword;
his words before were too hasty.
>Others have said they watered the drink down to wine equivalency.
Watering wine was the custom for the Greeks and Romans, who looked
down on the peoples they called barbarian because they drank their wine
and mead "straight," without watering it. This was because Greek &
Roman wine was often stored or transported in a form having some of
the water removed from it. There were customary amounts of water to
be added -- I'm not sure but I seem to recall maybe three parts water to
one part wine for free men, maybe four or five parts water for slaves.
Watered drink was the reason why Plato could write about these all night
wine drinking philosophy discussions they would hold, but that wouldn't
do for the Celts, Anglo-Saxons or Norse! They probably drank carefully,
and the alcohol level itself may not have been all that high.
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: Must be a naysayer?
From: "Steve Gaskin" <stevegask@ihug.com.au>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:49:05 +0930
>I hope this doesn't rile anybody up, but I would like to >hear of other
people who use a Vernacular approach to >mead making as this is, and
even start some >conversation on peoples less than conventional
>approach to meadmaking.
>Chris Carpenter
>PS. just for the naysayers, please answer this simple >question, why would
>people who knew nothing of bacteria use sterilization >techniques??
Sorry Chris, but I do get riled up at the "anti-progress" stance that
some people take.
People who knew nothing of bacteria would NOT have sterilised anything,
- - but man they would have lost a lot of good meads through infections!
People who knew nothing about bacteria and viruses never washed their
hands when they used to do surgery either, - would you like someone to
operate on you with dirty hands? Or would you like to eat some ham that
was made in a dirty butcher shop?
Mate progress is not all bad, we benefit from it daily!
Steve
------------------------------
Subject: Toning down the acid?
From: "Don Conley" <dconley1@san.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:59:09 -0700
Greetings all!
Once again I come to you for advice, and why not, its a good place to come
for that! =)
Here are my troubles. On Jan 1, I started my Mountain Guava melomel and all
seems to be going well with the fermentation. I've racked it from its
primary fermentation that included the guava and racked it off the lees
again about a month or so later. Now I'm left with a very nice golden clear
mead still quietly bubbling away.
Yesterday, I decided to taste my meads to see how they were coming along.
My Mountain Guava has a very nice guava aroma to it, and a pleasing guava
after taste. The problem with it is that it is extremely bitter, I would
have to say acidy. Does anyone else have experience brewing with guavas
that may have any advice? Does it mellow out later, I know my mead is still
pretty young. I've seen gypsum mentioned in the last digest, perhaps that
may be my solution, but how much do you use in a 5 gallon batch?
My other question is, I started a sweet traditional mead last August. It
seems to be coming along very well. Great clarity etc. My problem with
that is after I tasted it a couple months ago, I decided it was too sweet.
In hopes of drying it out some, I added White Labs WLP099 Super High Gravity
Ale yeast to the mead. It took about a month to see any increase in the
fermentation. Are there any other ways of drying out a mead that is too
sweet? Was adding a yeast with a higher potential alcohol tolerance the
correct thing to do? Right now, it tastes pretty good, it goes down smooth
but just a little too sweet for my liking.
Thanks in advance,
Don Coney
San Diego, CA
------------------------------
Subject: yeast nutrients & clarifying agents
From: "Eric Brown" <apicoltore@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:09:15 +0000
It seems to me there are two big shortcomings in my meadmaking abilities at
the present, and I'm hoping some of you all can help me.
First, I don't know how to add any yeast nutrients to my meads. I know
there are mixtures called "yeast nutrient" with recommended amounts to use,
but I'm very reluctant to use some mixture where I don't know what it's a
mixture of, what it's made from or how to make it. I also don't want to add
a whole mixture of nutrients if my fermentation is being held back only by a
lack of one particular nutrient. Before I add anything to my mead, I want
to have an educated guess as to what's holding things up, and then I want to
know exactly what I'm adding, what's it's made from, how it's made, what
it's supposed to do and by what mechanism, etc.
Second, I don't know how to get my meads to clear if time doesn't do the
trick. I don't want to filter my mead. I have two 5-gallon batches of
straight clary sage mead and a 3-gallon batch of sourwood mead at the
moment, for instance, that are 6 to 12 months old, and they're still not
quite clear. What are the most likely causes of cloudiness in a no-boil,
straight mead (by which I want to say a mead with no ingredients but honey,
water and yeast)? I hear a lot about sparkaloid, but I don't want to add
some random thing with a fancy name to my mead. Is there a common name for
sparkaloid? Also, I've had other meads (made from raspberry, snowberry or
tulip poplar honey, for instance) that have cleared very well on their own.
I wonder if these honeys might have more of some nutrient which aids in
clearing. By adding this hypothetical nutrient at the start of
fermentation, could I get a clary sage mead to clear like a tulip poplar
mead?
Thanks in advance.
Eric Brown
------------------------------
Subject: Pectin, acid, etc.
From: "Bruce Brode" <BruceB@cpandb.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:15:34 -0700
I've seen many posts recently concerning how to clear pectin haze from
mead, how and when to acidify or reduce acidity, and the like. I have
some suggestions in each area.
Pectinaze, or pectic enzyme, is best used before fermentation. The danger
with using it during or after fermentation is the potential for creating
methanol, something you definitely do not want. In terms of clearing haze
from mead, I have had success using a double fining method: Bentonite
followed immediately by Sparkolloid. Follow the package directions but be
conservative on the Bentonite as one can strip some flavor out by using
too much. The Bentonite certainly works for attracting albumins and the
Sparkolloid helps that complex to settle out.
I agree with those who advocate acidifying mead only at the end of the
process, shortly before bottling, and then only to taste. Grape-based
winemakers are accustomed to following rules such as keeping the pH of
white wines below 3.2 and reds below 3.6, for dry table wines, but they
have concerns about bacterial contamination that is discouraged by acidic
conditions, and they use potassium metabisulfite as an antioxidant and its
effect is much more efficient in acidic conditions (meaning less can be
used). I believe that bacterial contamination in mead is much less of a
concern, since bees impart a form of hydrogen peroxide (a natural
antibacterial substance) to honey, and most meads seem to be more
congenial to some oxidative flavors than dry table wines are.
I do not recommend the use of Gypsum due to its dusty flavor (it is
food-grade plaster, after all), and there seems to be some confusion about
using it to buffer excess acidity. It will have no such effect, since it
imparts acidity of its own! Severely over-acidic conditions could be
addressed by use of potassium hydroxide; one could experiment with
calcium carbonate (i.e. precipitated chalk) but it is difficult to get
into solution and I have not had much success with it. Best to avoid
overly acidic conditions to begin with, and bring the acidity up to taste
late in the process. Also, an overly acidic mead could be blended with
another less-acidic one to lessen the acidity overall, which might be a
good technique to use in "rescuing" an overly acidic mead.
Bruce Brode
Los Angeles, CA
bruceb@cpandb.com
------------------------------
Subject: medieval mead
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:59:34 -0600 (MDT)
In MLD 923, Christopher C Carpenter <chris.carpenter@ndsu.nodak.edu> wrote:
> ...As I try to re-create true medieval mead, I do
> not believe that they used a scientific approach on the by and large...
I'd expect that they _did_, but it may be a matter of what you term
"science". If you make mead and I make mead, and yours turns out better
than mine...or if one batch turns out better than another...we start
looking for reasons for the differences. We guess at what might have done
it; we try different ideas; we see if we can keep doing it. And there you
have hypothesis, experimentation, corroboration.
>...They made Mead as a way to preserve leftover autumn harvest,...
(Sounds like what the guys would tell the women-folk! "No, honest dear,
we're not making booze. We're just preserving the harvest". :-)
If you combine honey and whatever leftover harvest you've got into what is
effectively a melomel, OK, you do preserve it in a sense, but now it's an
alcoholic drink and you use it in a completely different way from a pre-
served food. It's not like you're preserving something with food value
so that you can eat it later.
> ...They didn't (mind, this is MY theory)float
> eggs (a stale egg will float in water), they added a specific tub o honey
> into a certain tub,...
But as Chris pointed out later in the note, there's a lot of oral tradi-
tion involved. So how would you know whether they did use an "egg-
hydrometer"? Or, put differently, when did the idea of using an egg to
judge the strength (that is, the SG) of the must come along? I'm looking
to Digby, which is well past medieval time--mid-17th century--but there,
many if not most of the recipes for mead use some variant of floating an
egg to judge the strength. It's presented as if it were a commonplace
method...so how far back does it go? (And how would you find out? URK!)
> PS. just for the naysayers, please answer this simple question, why would
> people who knew nothing of bacteria use sterilization techniques??
There's always the point that if you happen to try something and it works,
you can keep doing it even if you don't know why it works.
If you mean boiling a must, the reason that people would have started seems
most likely that it's a way to get all the crud separated from the honey
and water. Remember, honey was found in hollow logs, or maybe there were
straw skeps by then but I doubt it...anyway, the honey came out in a pretty
crude state. Soaking the combs in water and heating would allow separating
the wax, settling out some of the crud, and lifting off more of it. Or, as
it was said a couple centuries later, but still long ago, "skim it very
well as soon as any scum riseth; which you are to continue till there rise
no scum more." (Digby)
Dick
------------------------------
Subject: FW: Corkin !
From: "Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren@trekbike.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:14:02 -0500
> Fellow Mead Lovers
>
> I have a question about which type of cork
> to use with my mead. Should I go with a
> natural cork or synthetic? I am worried
> because some of the ads for corks say that
> colmated corks will only last for 6 months
> and other corks up to one year. Whats a guy
> with an Apricot Mead ready to bottle to do?
> I guess I could just put it into beer bottles and
> cap it, but I would prefer something a bit nicer.
> Any words of advice would be appreciated....
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stefan
>
> Not all those that wander are lost.
> -J.R.R. Tolkien, novelist and philologist (1892-1973)
>
>
>
------------------------------
Subject: Nutrient, lees, and yeast
From: Anthony.Karian@sce.com
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:48:48 -0700
Melinda asked: How much nutrient would you recommend using for the next
time around?
Does anyone have any recommendations for good yeast other than champagne
yeast?
And I'll throw in: Does leaving mead on the lees contribute to off
flavors?
As one of my goals is to minimize fermentation time, I've always erred on
the side of excess, whether it be sterilization, oxygenation or nutrients.
I use anywhere from 1 teaspoon to 1 tablespoon per gallon. (Less is needed
if you use fruit or juices.) The argument against using so much is that
too much nutrients can contribute to off tastes. I am sure that's
possible, depending on what you use, but I haven't had that problem. Start
by picking a nutrient that doesn't have an off-taste, and you won't have to
wait for that taste to go away.
I think I'm the one that suggested sherry yeast. A few years ago I did a
test of a dozen yeasts, most of the common ones used in mead making. I
wanted one that was a fast fermenter, didn't have a leave a lot of off
tastes that would take time to go away, cleared quickly, and had a high
alcohol tolerance. The end result was Flor Sherry yeast became my
favorite. It is just as strong and fast as champagne yeast but doesn't
leave a off flavor that takes time to mellow, as I find champagne does. It
is very common and should be available at any winemakers and most brewers
supply stores.
And since I didn't mention it last time, I wouldn't worry about getting off
flavors from leaving mead on the lees (dead yeast) for a while. Though
again others tell stories of problems from autolysis, I've certainly had
them sit for up to several months without problem.
As with everything else, your experiences may vary... :)
Tony
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sherry yeast, and other good mead yeasts?
From: "Kemp, Alson" <alson@corp.cirrus.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:05:21 -0700
From: Melinda Merkel Iyer <myn@iyerfamily.net>
>Also, does anyone have any recommendations for
>good yeast other than champagne yeast? I'm out
>for a dry to semi-dry wine with high alcohol
I like Lallemand's D47. Lallemand's K1V-1116 is a strong
fermenter but needs nutrients to avoid sulfide production.
(spelling?! ->) PriseDeMousse/EC-1118/PremierCuvee will ferment
to dryness with neutral flavor.
Remember: "Pasteur Champagne" yeast is NOT secondary
fermentation (tirage) yeast. It's for the primary fermentation
of champagne. Premier Cuvee is then used for the bottle
fermentation.
- Alson
------------------------------
Subject: Stockwood Ren Faire and Brew-Ha-Ha
From: Ross Cohn <artnculture@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
Hi all,
I wanted to let everyone know about an amateur brewing
contest and Ren Faire being held on the East Coast...
It's in Upstate NY, and for those of you who may live
in the Tri-State Area it's about 1 1/2 to 2 hours away
from NYC. I went last year and it was a blast, not
the largest Ren Faire out there but it was a lot of
fun and a good day trip for me and my cohorts. The
Brewing Contest is set up well this year and it's an
opportunity to meet other brewers:
http://www.stockwoodfaire.com/
------------------------------
Subject: Roger Morse?
From: Russ Riley <russriley61999@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:12:50 -0700 (PDT)
Dan: Who is Roger Morse? I've probably come across
some of his writing before, but I'm bad with names and
I can't remember where or what he may have written.
Books? Technical papers? Could you point me in the
right direction? Also, is most of his writing on the
technical aspects of meadmaking? Thanks!
Russ
- --------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Re: Length of initial fermentation?
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:49:14 -0500
One reason why it isn't necessary to add acid at the beginning of the
fermentation is that the pH of the honey must is already close to ideal
levels. I haven't made a habit of regularly checking the pH of my meads
at the start but they're usually about 4.0. The late Roger Morse found a
pH range at which the fermentation does well, from about 3.7 to 4.6. He
suggested 3.7 as the best compromise for a pH level high enough to promote
vigorous yeast fermentation but still low enough to inhibit bacterial growth.
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: The queue: History, Acidity and Yeast
From: "Ken Schramm" <SchramK@resa.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:04:17 -0400
To Chris Carpenter: >>>just for the naysayers, please answer this simple
question, why would people who knew nothing of bacteria use sterilization
techniques??<<<
They figured out that if they drank only liquids that were boiled or
fermented, they didn't get sick. Or, if you prefer the power of negative
reinforcement, when they drank things that were not boiled or fermented,
they got sick in a very uncomfortable way, and some of them died.
Early civilizations formed all kinds of hideously superstitious and
judgmental reasons for all of these bad things happening (witches and
evil spirits and infuriating the gods and ....), but they pretty much
figured out the"boil it or ferment it" stuff early on. Just like we know
gravity works, we know basically how it works, but we don't have the
transmission vehicle (the elusive Higgs Boson, if it exists) for the force
- - or "why" it works. At some point we'll get there, but we accept that we
still have to obey the law of gravity in the mean time. Just because we
don't know exactly _why_ it works doesn't mean we don't know _that_ it
works.
Acidity:
I have tried calcium carbonate to neutralize he acid in a mead, but by the
time the acidity was quelled, I felt I could taste the CaCO3, and didn't
really like the result. I have added honey to balance acidity to my own
thresholds. That can yield a pretty sweet mead, but I prefer it to losing
the batch. I may try the calcium carbonate thing again, just to make sure
I didn't mess it up last time. It was a few years ago.
Melinda: Try Lalvin 71B 1122. I am pretty sure it is a Narbonne variety.
It will bring the fruity/floral character out nicely, and can finish up
to a presentable profile a lot faster than sherry and champagne varieties.
As for the Vikings; they had a rep for being able to hold their Mead.
Their meads were probably in the 9-12% range, and everything I have read
indicates that they were able to drink heavily and regularly, and that
they took their hangovers out on their conquests. Bad spot to be in for a
conquest. Check out Beowulf for a good authentic representation of
Viking mead usage. They are in the mead hall regularly. They don't seem
to be very concerned about their livers. I haven't spotted anything about
dilution, which I know was a standard practice among the Mediterranean
folk.
Dick Dunn: great response post on the apples.
Ken Schramm
Troy, Michigan
WhereSaturday is opening day of Trout Season, and several inches of snow
are expected for the northern part of the state.
Great weather for kegging.....
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #924
*******************************
