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Mead Lovers Digest #0907
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: mead@talisman.com
To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #907, 25 February 2002
Mead Lover's Digest #907 25 February 2002
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
fruit in primary, bitterness (Dick Dunn)
Mazer cup / 2 months before racking (LJ Vitt)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #906, 23 February 2002 (Gardengate32@aol.com)
Re: strange smells; on mead in religion; & eucalyptus mead (Mark Taratoot)
Mail Order Fiasco (Nancy McAndrew)
Cream of Tartar in Mead? ("Robert J. Waddell")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #903, 18 February 2002 (Thebestbee@aol.com)
Re: Oak in Mead (Mike Bennett)
Orchid Pod Metheglin ("redrocklover")
waiting to bottle (re: "a question") (Dick Dunn)
Re: your submission to MLD - not plain text ("Martin Smith")
my first mead brew ("Arnold Fox")
Re: sweet high proof mead & a question (Maureen)
when to add fruit ("Kevin Mc Lean")
Re: Orange blossom honey ("Ken Taborek")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
a searchable MLD archive at hubris.engin.umich.edu/Beer/Threads/Mead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: fruit in primary, bitterness
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:27:13 -0700 (MST)
"Curt Speaker" <SPEAKER@SAFETY-1.SAFETY.PSU.EDU> wrote:
> I have not done a side-by-side comparision, but I have used the
> same recipe and tried adding the fruit at the beginning and, in a
> separate batch, adding it to the secondary fermenter. Some fruits,
> especially rasberries and strawberries, and a bitter component to
> their flavor (which I assume comes from the small seeds?). When I
> used these in the primary fermenter, much of the sweet, aromatic
> character of the fruit is lost, and the bitter flavors become much
> more pronounced...
Thanks...that's useful in terms of what to look for in a comparison. I
haven't noted an excessive bitter character from fruit in the primary.
(I get excessive bitterness by getting lazy and letting my meads sit on the
lees for too long.:-)
How long did you leave the fruit in the fermenter when you put it in the
primary? I try to be careful to keep it to a few days. I get good ex-
traction within that time period.
I also think bitterness can come from seeds as you say, probably from the
skin (such as it is) also. BUT there's a balance to that, at least to my
tastes: I've tried making raspberry melomel using only juice. The juice
was made from berries frozen and thawed, and it was almost "free-run",
clear with no pulp visible. The resulting melomel had plenty of fruit
aroma and character, but the taste was too "soft". I feel that a bit of
tannin would have helped it. So my point here is that *some* bitterness
is a positive contribution to the taste. (I guess most of us already have
some experience with that; I was just surprised to see it show up in the
context of an otherwise-very-fruity melomel.)
>...When I made the same meads and added the
> fruit to the secondary, I got much better expression of fruit aroma
> and flavor, with the bitter character much more subdued.
That suggests that it may be easier to control the bitterness or keep it
in balance with the fruit. Guess I'll have to try it.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
Subject: Mazer cup / 2 months before racking
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:45:12 -0800 (PST)
Mazer Cup:
I got a response right away when I sent a question about styles.
I also sent to the address listed on the web site.
Jeremiah asked about his mead that has been in the primary 2 months.
>Subject: a question
>From: Jeremiah Rose <gojera@cayuse.net>
>Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:18:43 -0500
>Here's a question:
>last year I started making my second batch of mead ever. I set it to
>ferment it and racked it once, but due to various circumstances, I
>shoudl have bottled it about two months ago and never did. Fermentation
>definitely ended quite a while ago. I checked it, and it tastes all
>right, a beit weak, but not like it's gone bad. My question: is there
>any way to rescue this batch? I'd really like to bottle it, at least, if
>there's any hope at all for it.
>Thanks,
>Jeremiah
Jeremiah, 2 months without racking is NOT a problem for mead.
I have let primary fermentations go this long before for mead.
I have gone close to a year on secondary rackings.
Go ahead and rack it.
It taste weak -- how so? Is it low in honey? Add more honey.
Is it weak in some other flavor? You don't say if it has fruit or
some flavor other than honey. You can add flavors to your mead.
There may be more ferementation after you add to the mead.
If you want to add more honey, you can take a small amount of mead
to disolve the honey - by heating if that is your method.
Add the new honey, mead to the fermenter. The batch size could
get larger if you are adding enough honey. An alternative is
disolve more honey in water and add it to the fermenter.
- - Leo Vitt
Rochester, MN
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #906, 23 February 2002
From: Gardengate32@aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:50:10 EST
> Subject: sweet high proof mead
> From: "tcromer" <tcromer@frontiernet.com>
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:27:03 -0600
>
> ok, i got gung-ho, about making mead, and started buying supplies before
> i read enough to know exactly what i want. i have everything i need
> except the honey, which im ordering next week.
> i went for wyatt champagne yeast, for the high alcohol level. but i
> dont care to much for dry wines, whats the best way to raise the
> sweetness, and keep the high levels of alcohol? i dont mind a bubbly
> drink, but the sweetness i am looking for, would probably over-carbonate
> it. i dont want the "glass grenades"
> any ideas would be appreciated!
> thanks
> tony
>
tony, try stabilizing the fermentation, after it peters out, through the
addition of neutral grain spirits to murder the remaining stragglers in the
yeast population prior to bottling. then you can sweeten it by adding honey
to taste prior to bottling. it'll be still, but it will be both stong and
sweet (and it won't blow up). cheers, brent
------------------------------
Subject: Re: strange smells; on mead in religion; & eucalyptus mead
From: Mark Taratoot <taratoot@peak.org>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Greetings, and a glass raised to all makers of mead!
Since I rarely post any more, I need to get some buisness
out of the way first:
1. Dick, thanks more than you realize for continuing to maintain
this digest. It's a great resource.
2. Thanks everyone else for maintaing a good signal to noise
ratio, and for keeping this list civil and respectful.
Now on to mead!
In MLD 905, Ron Oates asks about sulfur:
- --> I made my first batch of mead two weeks ago, from a very basic recipe:
- --> 12 lbs honey
- --> 5 gallons of water
- --> 1 package of wyeast sweet mead liquid yeast
- --> and 5 campden<sp?> tablets
<snip>
- --> The only thing that has me worried is that it seems to be
- --> giving off a strange odor (sort of a honey with a very
- --> very light sulferish smell to it) and I wanted to know if
- --> this was normal? Also I
I was sure someone would submit for MLD 910 that this was almost
certainly from the campden tablets. Yes, it will dissapate. I
don't use those very often at all any more, but I have
experienced some really funky smells with it (as well as with
natrually fermenting cider on its own wild yeast that yielded one
of my best ciders ever, but that really belongs on another
digest).
Next I just thought I'd give my couple of cents regarding
the appropriateness of some of the topics that have been
posted here lately. Seems to me the discussion of the use of
mead in ancient or modern rituals is quite ON topic, and I would
hate to see any censure of that type of discussion. Based on
what I've seen here the past ten years (+/-, who has that good a
memory?), I have no doubt that this will continue to be a
respectful self-policing space where everyone will feel
comfortable posting questions or responses related to the many
aspects of mead.
Look for news of my Iron Bark Eucalyptus Mead in the near future.
I know there are a few folks here that have asked me about it in
the past couple of years, and I promised a report a while ago.
Teaser: Started on 1/1999 at 1.130 (!), fermented and racked a
few times, bulk aged from 1/2000 to 1/2001, then kegged (1.028).
I needed the carboy -- I only have six. I haven't tasted it in
months, but it was butterscotchy going into the keg, but after it
was slightly carbonated it tasted much better. I'll pull some
off soon and lete y'all know what I think.
- --
Mark Taratoot
taratoot@peak.org
------------------------------
Subject: Mail Order Fiasco
From: Nancy McAndrew <mcandrew_n@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:04:30 -0800 (PST)
I had a very bad and irritating experience with St
Pat's. I ordered a bottling bucket and the spigot
hole was drilled too low on the side to screw on the
back. I emailed and called numerous (and I mean
numerous!) times before and never got one word in
response. Finally one day a bucket appeared on me door
step--with a shipping invoice.
Just one experience--perhaps they do better with
honey.
Slainte,
Nancy.
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Mail order sources for honey
> From: Bruce Carpenter <bruce@dtconline.com>
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:18:36 -0600
> Second choice is St. Pats in Austin, TX (
> http://www.stpats.com/ ). More
> flavor choices but you pay for shipping.
> Cheers,
> Bruce Carpenter
>
------------------------------
Subject: Cream of Tartar in Mead?
From: "Robert J. Waddell" <rjw@dimensional.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:11:16 -0700
Greetings All,
I've been making mead and reading this digest for several years now, but
until now I've never had anything to add. In reading some past digests I
came upon the suggestion to add "Cream of Tartar" to control the pH and
Total Acid to keep our yeasties happy. Well, I decided to pick the brain
of a good friend of mine who has a doctorate in chemistry to see just what
this stuff would do. Here is a portion of his reply:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The following is taken from The Merck Index, 11th edition, pg. 1212,
monograph number 7593. The chemical names for Cream of Tartar are
potassium bitartrate or, more correctly, potassium hydrogen tartrate. The
chemical formula is
C4H5KO6; this can be written as K[O2C-CH(OH)-CH(OH)-CO2H], which gives a
good structural representation. The tartrates are somewhat akin to types
of sugars by their polyoxo (many oxygen atoms per molecule) nature . This
compound, along with tartaric acid, is obtained from the sediments in the
manufacture of wine; these sediments are known as argols or wine
lees. This compound is obtained as colorless crystals or a white,
crystalline powder, and has a pleasant acidulous taste. The compound has
low water solubility; an approximate 1% solution in water is obtained at
room temperature. Any excess above that will settle out of solution. One
of the principle uses of this material is as an ingredient in baking powders.
In acidic solutions, potassium hydrogen tartrate will react to form
tartaric acid via protonation; the acid has the formula C4H6O6. The
following is also taken from The Merck Index, pgs. 1432-1433. The
monograph number for the natural form is 9039. This natural form is known
as L-tartaric acid; the chemical name is L-2,3-dihydroxybutanedioic
acid. This acid is: Widely distributed in nature, classified as a fruit
acid. Occurs in many fruits, free and (also) combined with potassium,
calcium, or magnesium. Observed in antiquity as the acid potassium salt
found deposited as a fine crystalline crust during fermentation of grape
juice or tamarind juice and termed faecula (little yeast) by the
Romans. The material has a strong acid taste; strong solutions are mildly
irritating, but refreshing when in dilute aqueous solutions. Primary uses
are in the soft drink industry, confectionary products, bakery products,
and gelatin desserts. The material also has pharmaceutical uses, as a
BUFFERING AGENT. "
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He promised to get back to me with further thoughts on this, but the term
"buffering agent" has convinced me to give it a try in my next batch come
spring. I don't know how much to use, but if any excess falls out above 1%
I guess I can't really use too much.
RJW
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #903, 18 February 2002
From: Thebestbee@aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:12:54 EST
please update my email address. The other one was deleted. Thanks Martin
thebestbee1
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Oak in Mead
From: Mike Bennett <mjb@efn.org>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 17:33:23 -0800
Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu> in Mead Lover's Digest #905,
wrote:
> I used about 3 oz of oak chips in 5 gallons. I boiled it
> briefly and decanted the liquid, adding the oak to the aging
> carboy for about 2 weeks. I added the oak and tasted the
> mead a week later... then a week later... tasted okay...
> bottle it!
I too have used oak in some of my meads. Years ago, I got a 5 gallon
cask made from American Oak and put a sack mead in it to age. I didn't
know what I was doing and left it in there for 6 months. BLEEECH!!!! I
later found out that a week, maybe 2 at most is enough. (I've since
pitched the inside and use the cask to age my barleywines.)
Anyway, I found out that the key to using oak in meads is to taste test
often. The amount of flavor pickup is a function of surface area per
unit volume and time. The species of oak and the degree of toasting
also are factors.
The problem that I've had with oak chips is twofold. The first is that
the chips float in the mead and therefore extraction of flavors is
uneven. Secondly, there is no accurate way of measuring the surface
area of the wood chips.
As you can probably tell, consistent and predictable results are very
important to me in brewing. I need to be able to have a firm
reproducible way of naturally oak aging my meads.
That's why I was surprised when I received a catalog from "The Beverage
People", Byron Burch's homebrew shop. (BTW, I have no affiliation with
them) They offer a product that the call "OakBoy". It's basically
toasted wood slats in both American and French oaks that are small
enough to fit into a glass carboy.
I haven't had a chance to order them yet, but I plan on buying some and
doing some side-by-side testing to find the right amount of surface area
and time required to fit my particular tastes.
I'd love to hear from anyone who's already tried this product.
- --
Mike Bennett
Brewer for Hire
mjbennett69@yahoo.com
....Give a man a beer, he'll waste an hour.
Teach a man to brew and he'll waste a lifetime....
------------------------------
Subject: Orchid Pod Metheglin
From: "redrocklover" <spiritflight@kachina.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 18:55:38 -0700
On the subject of imparting good feelings into meads, metheglins and
other "medicinal" fermentations have been used to impart healthful
energies and "a feeling of well being. The Chinese have used such
fermentations for centuries and there are books on them available.
One tonic plant I like to use is Chinese orchid pods ( "Shi Hu" in
Chinese, Dendrobium in Latin) and Chinese licorice root. The two
together make a common Chinese tonic formula that I've found is similar
in effect to a strong dose of St. John's Wort . Nicely calming to the
spirit when your frazzled. I've noticed no real difference between the
tea and metheglin in medicinal effect, but I would imagine that the
licorice root would have a greater detoxifying effect because of alcohol
carrying it straight to the liver.
Matthew Ransom
------------------------------
Subject: waiting to bottle (re: "a question")
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 20:58:12 -0700 (MST)
Jeremiah Rose <gojera@cayuse.net> wrote:
> last year I started making my second batch of mead ever. I set it to
> ferment it and racked it once, but due to various circumstances, I
> shoudl have bottled it about two months ago and never did...
Gosh, Jeremiah...how could you do such a thing? You are the *first* person
I've *ever* heard of who has procrastinated on bottling a mead. (NOT!)
>...Fermentation
> definitely ended quite a while ago. I checked it, and it tastes all
> right, a beit weak, but not like it's gone bad. My question: is there
> any way to rescue this batch?...
Bottle it.
No "rescue" needed. This is not beer. Two months is a minor delay. It is
No Big Deal. Really. I'm serious.
I just bottled a mead that I had delayed bottling for slightly over two
*years*. Now, I do not recommend waiting that long (even if you're careful
about temp, keep the fermentation lock full, and all that), and it
definitely affects the taste of the mead. In my case, it's a fairly strong
metheglin, and I've added some sweetness, and the oxidation from excess age
in the carboy gives a bit of sherry flavor that goes OK, so the mead is not
as good as it could have been but it's not a problem. I'm only saying that
it's possible to wait a long time to bottle and not have a serious problem.
But again, that one of mine waited two years. Your two months is no big
deal. I wouldn't apologize for it. That's not even "procrastination";
it's "patience"...and as we all know, patience is a virtue.
>...I'd really like to bottle it, at least, if
> there's any hope at all for it.
There's plenty of hope for it. Bottle it and let us know how it turns out.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Mr. Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job."
------------------------------
Subject: Re: your submission to MLD - not plain text
From: "Martin Smith" <yourruler@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:31:52 +0000
My freind and I have been making mead for a little while, and have been
reassured that it tastes delicious warm - especially in the winter. However,
any attempt to heat it results in the rapid vinegarisation of the alcohol
due to oxidisation. Does anyone know how to warm mead up without this
unfortunate effect? At the moment the only thing warm mead is good for is to
put with chips :S
My thanks,
Martin Smith
------------------------------
Subject: my first mead brew
From: "Arnold Fox" <runesterfox@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:16:02 +0000
Hi guys,
I've attempted to brew my first mead according to the classical mead
recipe. I've followed instructions to the letter. All of my vessels have
been properly disinfected and cleaned. I racked after one month and I have a
cloudy yellow/brown liquid which has a muddy,bitter flavor with a
putrid,vinegary aftertaste. Could someone help me on this one 'cos if this
is mead then I'd sooner drink piss.
Runester
------------------------------
Subject: Re: sweet high proof mead & a question
From: Maureen <eveningstartwo@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:56:27 -0800 (PST)
>
> Subject: sweet high proof mead
> From: "tcromer" <tcromer@frontiernet.com>
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:27:03 -0600
>
> ok, i got gung-ho, about making mead, and started
> buying supplies before
> i read enough to know exactly what i want. i have
> everything i need
> except the honey, which im ordering next week.
> i went for wyatt champagne yeast, for the high
> alcohol level. but i
> dont care to much for dry wines, whats the best way
> to raise the
> sweetness, and keep the high levels of alcohol? i
> dont mind a bubbly
> drink, but the sweetness i am looking for, would
> probably over-carbonate
> it. i dont want the "glass grenades"
> any ideas would be appreciated!
> thanks
> tony
Use more honey?
I too like sweet meads and I use 1 quart honey to 1
gallon of water/mead--the end result is sweet enough
for me. I use a Lavin yeast but that is my preferece
because I have always had good luck with it. I bulk
age for about 6 months before I bottle and (so far)
haven't had any grenades.
FWIW I also make a Yule mead that is 6 quarts honey to
1 gallon water/mead. I try to start that one in
January and bottle in December--ain't gonna happen
this year. It is quite alcoholic and quite sweet.
Maureen
> Subject: a question
> From: Jeremiah Rose <gojera@cayuse.net>
> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:18:43 -0500
>
>
> Here's a question:
> last year I started making my second batch of mead
> ever. I set it to
> ferment it and racked it once, but due to various
> circumstances, I
> shoudl have bottled it about two months ago and
> never did. Fermentation
> definitely ended quite a while ago. I checked it,
> and it tastes all
> right, a beit weak, but not like it's gone bad. My
> question: is there
> any way to rescue this batch? I'd really like to
> bottle it, at least, if
> there's any hope at all for it.
I'm a little confused: why would there be a problem?
You have essentially bulk aged your mead.
Maureen
------------------------------
Subject: when to add fruit
From: "Kevin Mc Lean" <mcleank@brampton.cqu.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 14:00:52 +1000
Greetings Mr Dunn,
I always add fruit at the start of the primary like you. I know of no
comparative studies that have been done with mead, but maybe if you look at
the literature on lambics like Kriek, there'll be a study. A lot of lambics
use fruit and there could well be something on it there.
Regards,
Kevin.
PS. If you dig up some information on it, I'd love to know.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Orange blossom honey
From: "Ken Taborek" <Ken.Taborek@Verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:28:21 -0500
> Subject: Orange blossom honey
> From: Hop_Head@webtv.net
> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:54:04 -0500 (EST)
>
> Can anyone recommend a supplier for Orange blossom honey? Also any
> recommendations for a mead using it would be greatly appreciated.
Hop Head,
I've had very good experiences buying from Dutch Gold Honey
(www.dutchgoldhoney.com). The 5 gallon pail of orange blossom honey I
bought from them arrived before their promise date, and I had a few
questions about the details of my purchase that were answered in a quick and
friendly fashion over a few email exchanges.
I'm down to about 1 lb remaining of their orange blossom honey, and I'll be
buying from them again when I have the need. They sell a good many other
varieties as well, and in varying weights.
Cheers,
Ken
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #907
*******************************
