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Mead Lovers Digest #0905
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Errors-To: mead-errors@talisman.com
Reply-To: mead@talisman.com
To: mead-list@talisman.com
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #905, 21 February 2002
Mead Lover's Digest #905 21 February 2002
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Absynthe (David Chubb)
Orange blossom honey (Hop_Head@webtv.net)
The MLD Venue ("Stevenson, Randall")
Oak in Mead (Nathan Kanous)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #904, 19 February 2002 ("Joel Baker")
Question from a newbie ("Ron Oates")
RE: Oak in Mead ("Kemp, Alson")
re: when to add fruit/when to bottle (Dick Dunn)
Gelatin Cloudiness ("Matt Nickson")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #904, 19 February 2002 ("Taryn East")
RE: Absinthe ("redrocklover")
Brew Your Own article (Russ Riley)
Re: Is Absinthe a metheglin? (Jane Beckman)
re: How to determine starting spec. grav. ?? (Dick Dunn)
Ginger use / oak barrels ("Micah Millspaw")
First Racking and the taste ! ("Berggren, Stefan")
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
a searchable MLD archive at hubris.engin.umich.edu/Beer/Threads/Mead
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Absynthe
From: David Chubb <dchubb@virpack.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:49:23 -0500
>Subject: Is Absinthe a metheglin?
>From: Belinda Messenger <davispigeon@yahoo.com>
>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:44:20 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi MeadLovers,
>I came across a recipe from a *completely*
>disreputable source for "absinthe" using honey as the
>fermentable sugar...it sounds like a metheglin to me.
>The ingredients are as follows:
>"4 large handfulls(sic) of Absynthian (I'm assuming he
>means Artemesia absinthium)...1/2 pound of honey, 1
>tbls of yeast..." in 1/2 gallon of water.
>My questions: is this really how the famed "Absinthe"
>is made and if so, isn't this stuff poisonous or
>something? I've searched through all of my herbal
>books to find out and have come up with nothing
>negative about this herb.
>I have a friend just dying (haha) to drink this stuff,
>but I have my doubts about its safety. Anyone?
>Thanks,
>Bella
The Traditional method to making Absinthe is to make a tincture of of the
herb with as high a proof alchol as you can get (The friend of mine who
makes it uses Everclear (Grain alcohol)). Then mix 1 part tincture, 1 part
Corn syrup (Absinthe is VERY bitter), and 1 part water.
However, Absinthe is a very potent drug and in large doses can be harmful.
The chemical that makes up the drug also does not get flushed from the body
very quickly and can buildup to toxic levels in a person's body.
I am not sure what fermenting the herb would do. I would ber VERY careful
doing this.
- --WyrdOne
------------------------------
Subject: Orange blossom honey
From: Hop_Head@webtv.net
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:54:04 -0500 (EST)
Can anyone recommend a supplier for Orange blossom honey? Also any
recommendations for a mead using it would be greatly appreciated.
------------------------------
Subject: The MLD Venue
From: "Stevenson, Randall" <rstevenson@ldi.state.la.us>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:52:46 -0600
In the last issue Sid wrote:
"In my ... opinion, the religious aspect is fine for those to whom it is
interesting and should be so, in the proper venue; for the rest of us
here, it degrades the signal to noise ratio. I would respectfully
suggest that this list be for the aestheto-technical aspects of
meadmaking and leave the religion out...."
I remember a discussion of the effects of putting chrystals in mead for
their energies. (Long time ago.) Although I did not particularly like
the discussion, it did give me something to think about. One cannot
discuss the history of mead and dismiss its use in religious ceremonies
and frequent use in myths. To do so would be to lose an important part
of "mead culture". (For example, Thor went to sleep after drinking a
horn of mead. When he awoke, dwarves were forging horseshoes in his
head. -- Is there a better example to describe a mead hangover?) I
actually enjoy some the stories and religious information and would like
to see this venue remain open to all sorts of comments regarding mead,
not only the aestheto-technical aspects, but also the historical,
mythological, personal experiences, etc. No one has to read every post,
so why limit the Mead Lover's Digest to just technical information?
Anyone can skip the "noise" ... we do it everytime we read the
newspaper.
My two cents worth is that we keep the forum open to any mead related
topic.
Wassail,
Randall
------------------------------
Subject: Oak in Mead
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:26:44 -0600
Hi Folks,
One thing that I encountered early in making mead is some missing flavor in
my meads. It wasn't as obvious in sweet meads but was missing in dry. I
think some of that is astringency / tannins and this is easily provided by
using oak.
I don't have a ton of experience with it (in fact, very little). What I
can say is that it took a mead that I thought was pretty good and made it
into something I would be proud to serve any of you...then you could help
identify other faults in my process.
I used about 3 oz of oak chips in 5 gallons. I boiled it briefly and
decanted the liquid, adding the oak to the aging carboy for about 2
weeks. I added the oak and tasted the mead a week later....then a week
later....tasted okay.....bottle it!
Not scientific but it added something I was looking for in my mead. I'm
not a big fan of sweet meads, I like my wine dry and this helped my dry
meads which were otherwise lacking something.
Hope this helps.
nathan in madison, wi
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #904, 19 February 2002
From: "Joel Baker" <lucifer@lightbearer.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:37:40 -0700
On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:27:15AM -0700, mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
>
> Subject: Is Absinthe a metheglin?
> From: Belinda Messenger <davispigeon@yahoo.com>
> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:44:20 -0800 (PST)
>
> Hi MeadLovers,
> I came across a recipe from a *completely*
> disreputable source for "absinthe" using honey as the
> fermentable sugar...it sounds like a metheglin to me.
> The ingredients are as follows:
> "4 large handfulls(sic) of Absynthian (I'm assuming he
> means Artemesia absinthium)...1/2 pound of honey, 1
> tbls of yeast..." in 1/2 gallon of water.
> My questions: is this really how the famed "Absinthe"
> is made and if so, isn't this stuff poisonous or
> something? I've searched through all of my herbal
> books to find out and have come up with nothing
> negative about this herb.
> I have a friend just dying (haha) to drink this stuff,
> but I have my doubts about its safety. Anyone?
> Thanks,
> Bella
Absinthe was origionally made by soaking wormwood (Artemesia absinthium)
leaves in alchohol to extract the flavors (very bitter) and active
chemicals (thujone). As such, it has been referenced in texts as old as
the Bible and early Egyptian and Syrian texts. Presumably mead would have
been used at some point, as well, given that wormwood is native to most of
Europe; it certainly would have the qualifications of a metheglin (okay,
I can't help it... "a spoonful of sugar makes the metheglin go down..." -
sorry, had to, given it's history).
Modern absinthe, as made in France, Spain, and Switzerland from the mid
1700s until it's ban (at least, in France and Switzerland) is usually a
combination of wormwood, anise, hyssop, dittany, sweet flag, Melissa (a
type of mint, apparently), and sometimes coriander, veronica, camomile,
parsley, and/or spinach. However, the primary ingredient remains wormwood.
As for toxicity - thujone, the active chemical, has historically be classed
as a convulsant poison 'identical' to tanecetone (tansy) and salvanol
(sage), and similar to camphor and menthol (and other C10H16O isomers, the
class it is a member of).
Studies in the 1960s and 1970s indicate that it may be more similar to THC
(the primary active chemical in marijuana), having a chemical structure and
active bonding sites which are nearly identical.
Experimental evidence has indicated that a thujone dose of 30mg per kg of
body weight (orally) causes mild convulsions and lesions on the cerebral
cortex; a dose of 75mg/kg is the maximum non-lethal dose. The typical dose
from drinking one ounce of commercial absinthe for a 150 pound male is 50
times less toxic than the minimum dose required for a toxic reaction in
humans. The other ingredients of commercial absinthe (particular hyssop
and anise) have been shown to be far more problematic, when delivered with
alchohol, than thujone (still not particularly bad, however).
( Source reference: 'Absinthe', by Barnaby Conrad III, ISBN 0-8188-1650-8)
- --
***************************************************************************
Joel Baker System Administrator - lightbearer.com
lucifer@lightbearer.com http://users.lightbearer.com/lucifer/
------------------------------
Subject: Question from a newbie
From: "Ron Oates" <R.Oates@alvion.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:20:39 -0500
I made my first batch of mead two weeks ago, from a very basic recipe:
12 lbs honey
5 gallons of water
1 package of wyeast sweet mead liquid yeast
and 5 campden<sp?> tablets
I made sure that all of the equipment was well cleaned before I started,
and judging from the airlock and specific gravity readings it seems to
be fermenting fine. The only thing that has me worried is that it seems
to be giving off a strange odor (sort of a honey with a very very light
sulferish smell to it) and I wanted to know if this was normal? Also I
was wondering if anyone might have any simple recipies to try for my
next batch that I plan on making this weekend?
Thanks,
Ron
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Oak in Mead
From: "Kemp, Alson" <alson@corp.cirrus.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:49:08 -0800
>[Oak] took a mead that I thought was pretty good
>and made it into something I would be proud to
>serve any of you...
Please ship the bottle to ... ;)
My experience with oak has been similar, though I'm using
a 5 gallon oak barrel. The oak does improve the nose. The
oakiness gets added quickly so taste test the mead frequently!
One other recommendation: take an ounce or so of oak
chips, soak them in water for a few days, pour off the liquid,
then soak the chips in straight vodka for a week. Put a drop of
the oak-infused vodka into a glass of mead to see what a bit of
oak essence does to the mead.
-Alson Kemp
------------------------------
Subject: re: when to add fruit/when to bottle
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:06:23 -0700 (MST)
"Common knowledge" is that it's better to add fruit after fermentation is
under way and has settled down. The argument is that waiting causes less
loss of aromatics from the fruit. The idea makes sense. But is it
"knowledge" or is it just "common"?
As far as I can remember I've *always* added fruit at the start of fermen-
tation, and I don't feel like I've had any trouble with loss of aroma,
flavor, or color. I could present an argument that doing so releases more
fruit character because the early, vigorous fermentation is like carbonic
maceration in a wine. But I've got no good reason for this counter-
argument, other than that it's not entirely implausible.
So...I've asked before and I'll ask again: Has anybody actually tried a
comparison? I promise I'll do one this year, but it has to wait until
raspberry season.
There are other reasons for adding fruit at primary: the fruit is lifted on
the cap of foam where it's easy to skim most of it after a few days, and
the remainder can be taken out at the first racking (which may actually be
after just a few days, so the timing is nice).
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
Subject: Gelatin Cloudiness
From: "Matt Nickson" <nicksonmatt@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:17:49 -0800
I recently attempted to counter excessive tannin flavor and harshness by
adding gelatin to a perfectly clear lavender apple mead. The idea being that
gelatin would strip the tannins from solution. Fermentation is long over
(seven months in the bulk aging in a glass carboy)and it was clear when the
gelatin was added. My problem is that the mead has remained cloudy after the
addition of gelatin.
Will the gelatin clear with time (how long)?
Is it OK to bottle while the mead is still clouded with gelatin?
Thanks for any help on this issue,
Matt
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #904, 19 February 2002
From: "Taryn East" <taryneast@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:38:07 +0000
ok, two replies in one:
>------------------------------
>Subject: fresh honey
>From: NLSteve@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:22:25 EST
>
>Melinda sez:
>
<snip>
>The only mead I've heard advice
>against is eucalyptus honey mead -- although by mentioning that, I may
>accidentally start something here. Happy brewing. -- Steve
Well, it's only a problem if you don't like your mead tasting like
cough-mixture/eucalytpus-lollies which I have to admit i'm not that
enamoured of. It might be interesting as a small batch - hmmm, gives a new
thought to the old cold-remedy of lemon and honey...
mead with eucalyptus
could be interesting :)
>Subject: Is Absinthe a metheglin?
>From: Belinda Messenger <davispigeon@yahoo.com>
>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:44:20 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi MeadLovers,
>I came across a recipe from a *completely*
>disreputable source for "absinthe" using honey as the
>fermentable sugar...it sounds like a metheglin to me.
>The ingredients are as follows:
>"4 large handfulls(sic) of Absynthian (I'm assuming he
>means Artemesia absinthium)...1/2 pound of honey, 1
>tbls of yeast..." in 1/2 gallon of water.
>My questions: is this really how the famed "Absinthe"
>is made and if so, isn't this stuff poisonous or
>something? I've searched through all of my herbal
>books to find out and have come up with nothing
>negative about this herb.
>I have a friend just dying (haha) to drink this stuff,
>but I have my doubts about its safety. Anyone?
>Thanks,
>Bella
Afaik- absinthe was not a fermented wine (at least he herb wasn't fermented
with it). All the sources I've found have stated that it was a distilled
spirit with the "essential" oil of the worm-wood also distilled then added
to the brew.
>From what I've heard, the "active ingredient" is somwhat like THC (ie a
cannabinoid), so no more dangerous than the alchohol already in the drink.
Taryn
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Absinthe
From: "redrocklover" <spiritflight@kachina.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:57:05 -0700
The ingredients in wormwood are indeed poisonous in large enough doses.
A chemical in wormwood -- thujone -- is the neurotoxin along with toxins
from anise, fennel, hyssop and such that are added to it. The New
England Journal of Medicine states the a number of fools attempted to
make Absinthe from pure wormwood oil (absinthe was *NEVER* meant to be
made this way) and suffered renal failure, kidney problems, convulsions
and finally death.
Absinthe is still commercially available in many parts of the world.
Myself, I'd try those first.
The top Absinthe site I've found is at
http://www.sepulchritude.com/chapelperilous/absinthe/absinthe.html
It has a great FAQ and forums of current absinthers.
Matthew Ransom
Sedona, AZ
------------------------------
Subject: Brew Your Own article
From: Russ Riley <russriley61999@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:30:24 -0800 (PST)
Does anyone here read the magazine "Brew Your Own"?
They have an article on meadmaking this month that's
fairly interesting. It's basically a 'how to' that
covers some of the alternatives available concerning
the choices one faces when making a batch: different
types of honey, yeast, sanitation method (the infamous
"boil/no boil" debate), etc. There's not too much that
was new to me (mostly thanks to reading this digest)
but it was nice to see a long, thorough article on
mead. A good resource for people new to the hobby
(like me).
A question: it mentions the vigor of fermentation as
affecting the final flavor. The slower the ferment,
the more subtle flavors tend to be preserved, adding
to complexity, while faster ferments give cleaner
flavor. Any experience with this? How much difference
does it really make in the end product?
Russ
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Is Absinthe a metheglin?
From: Jane Beckman <jilara@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:42:33 -0800 (PST)
I've seen a lot of period recipes for absinthe or an
approximate equivalent, but never one for a wormwood
metheglin before! Most of the recipes I've seen start
with a base of grain alcohol, sometimes adding even
scarier compounds (including acetone-related
components, sometimes). (I tend to think of actual
absinthe as liquorice-flavor paint remover---yum.)
This recipe sounds interesting, and probably is a
drinkable medicinal. Artimesia absinthum was used as
a component in seasickness remedies, and also in
vermifuges (hence the name wormwood). Most of the
compounds intended for killing parasites or curing
queasiness involve large quantities of sugar, whereas
in this one, you are using honey instead, then
fermenting it. This sounds like a fairly pleasant
medicinal drink, rather than a way of getting a buzz.
But, like any medicinal, drinking a large quantity is
not recommended, as wormwood is toxic in larger
quantities.
Jilara
------------------------------
Subject: re: How to determine starting spec. grav. ??
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:06:16 -0700 (MST)
"Blauser, Matthew" <matthew.blauser@windriver.com> wrote:
> Can I use yeast alcohol tolerance and the SG of the must to guess how sweet
> or dry the product will be?
Only to a _very_ rough approximation.
Yeast are not that easily predictable when you've got a lot of variables--
temperature, nutrients, OG, etc. You could get to predictability if you
were making the same (or very similar) recipe several times in a row and
you could control more variables than is usually the case.
> I choose a yeast that ferments to x% alcohol. I want the product to be
> semi-sweet, and I want to let the yeast ferment until they die from the
> alcohol (attenuate?)...
Well...you don't really get a yeast that ferments to a particular %. What
you can say about any given yeast is that, under pretty good circumstances,
it probably won't ferment past x%...but that's a sort of squishy, marketing
"guaranteed not to exceed" number. It might in rare cases be a tad more,
but mostly what you've got to worry about is that it might be a lot less.
"Attenuation" doesn't refer to dying from alcohol; it refers (roughly!) to
what fraction of fermentable sugars the yeast will ferment . . . in some
believable time period. If that sounds as waffle-y as a politician's
campaign promise, you've got the idea. But the point is that "attenuation"
and "alcohol tolerance" are not the same. They are related in the sense
that alcohol-tolerant strains tend to be more attenuative, but you can find
(for example) a yeast that ferments everything to bone-dry (i.e., highly
attenuative) but only up to some low % alcohol.
> Is there a way I can figure out what range the starting SG should be in for
> this to happen?
>
> Or am I totally off somewhere?
You can make some rough figures and get a pretty good idea. Then you try a
batch and see how it goes...and you adjust your recipe (and your expecta-
tions!) accordingly.
Oh...and you hope that the yeast manufacturer doesn't make a radical change
in the strain of yeast you're using (keeping the same label-name) while
you're working this out! That happened to me about 3 years ago with a
particular yeast whose Red Star manufacturer I won't mention, and I lost
several potentially good meads as a result.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
Subject: Ginger use / oak barrels
From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa@silganmfg.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:58:15 -0600
When I use ginger for my meads, I have been using my
garlic press to squeeze out the ginger juice. There is a lot
less pulpy mess in the mead that way. I usually add ginger
and/or any other spices after the must has fermented out
and before the long term aging has begun.
As to oak barrels, I have found that a little oak has a lot of
flavour. I have taken to filling newer barrels with hot water
and sodium hydroxide to a ph of 10 and letting that set for
a few days. Rinse and repeat several times to get rid of the
excess oak tannins. Seems to do the job.
Micah Millspaw - brewer at large
------------------------------
Subject: First Racking and the taste !
From: "Berggren, Stefan" <stefan_berggren@trekbike.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:09:17 -0600
I just finished my first transfer of my Apricot Ginger mead to the
secondary. I just made a small 1 gallon batch for my first try. I used a
Lalvin 71-B 1122 strain of yeast that I felt would offer a good roundness.
I added 1/2 the pack of yeast into the 1.25 gallons of mead. The recipes is
as follows:
1.25 gallons of h20
3.00lbs clover honey
42oz. apricot puree (Oregon Fruit Puree)
1/4 tsp energizer
1/4 tsp nutrient
1 tablespoon ginger (steeped in muslin bag for 15 minutes at 180deg)
1/8 tsp gypsum
Lalvin 71-b -1122 yeast
Honey and water were held at 180-190deg for 25 minutes to pasteurize.
It had an original gravity of 1.090 and fell to 1.000(+/-.005) in four days.
It started to look like it was going to clear, but as of today it has taken
on renewed fermentaion. When I racked the mead into the secondary, it was
complex to say the least. It was somewhat sweet and dry with a
Robitussin(TM) cough syrup taste (medicinal). I was able to taste notes of
honey and apricot with a faint hello of ginger. I am wondering if this
medicine taste will change as the mead ages (bulk and botteling)? I have
never experience the aging process of mead, so I am curious to tasting notes
as mead progresses.
Cheers,
Stefan
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #905
*******************************
