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Mead Lovers Digest #0872
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #872, 1 October 2001
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #872 1 October 2001
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Cider (Tim Bray)
Bad smelling mead ("Kemp, Alson")
How much fruit/gallon in a mel? (Russ_Hobaugh@erm.com)
Baltimore Mazers? & Killing yeast to keep Mead Sweet? (JLong@VertisInc.com)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #870, 21 September 2001 (Ddweyr@aol.com)
Mead Lover's Digest #871, 25 September 2001 (Lenny Geoghegan)
Rhodomel & making rosewater ("Mitch Rice")
just a thought on yeast.. (Jonathan)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #871, 25 September 2001 (Jonathan)
Lavender mead (Gasco58@aol.com)
RE: rhodomel - which rose? (Russ Riley)
Re: Trader Joe's, etc ("Ken Taborek")
Cooking/brewing roses (Jane Beckman)
re: too much sulphite - off list ("Geoffrey T. Falk")
WOW!!! A gueze mead!!! ("Matt_lists")
Re:rhodomel - which rose? (Marc Shapiro)
Red Clover Metheglin ("mmeleen")
Rhodomel ("mmeleen")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #871, 25 September 2001 (Jim Johnston)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
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Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Cider
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 08:05:17 -0700
>Ok, so my question is really about cider but no one else seems to have an
>answer for me. My hard cider turns out watery. I have heard this is common
>but no one knows why.
The estimable Dick Dunn will perhaps forward this over to the Cider Digest,
which he also facilitates, and where there are many experienced
cider-makers who may offer many reasons for your dilemma! Meanwhile, I
will take a stab, based more on "received wisdom" than experience:
1. Apple juice starts out with less sugar than a typical mead recipe, so
it will typically make a lower-alcohol product.
2. Much of the "body" of hard cider comes from tannins. An apple with
lots of tannin is almost inedible, and American apples are grown for
eating, not cider. So pretty much all the juice we get tends to be
deficient in tannin.
3. In general, you need to blend juice from several different varieties of
apples to get a complex flavor profile in hard cider.
The premier Web reference on cider is the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
Good books that are available on the subject include:
"Cider, Hard and Sweet" by Ben Watson;
"Cider" by Proulx and Nichols;
"The Art of Cidermaking" by Paul Correnty.
Hope this helps,
Tim Bray
Albion, CA
------------------------------
Subject: Bad smelling mead
From: "Kemp, Alson" <alson@corp.cirrus.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 10:55:24 -0700
Some of you may recall me posting about my VERY stinky
chocolate mead. The diaper smell from the carboy was so strong
that it almost made me gag. K1V-1116 was the yeast that was
used.
So my brewing partner and I started a large batch of
blackberry honey mead with K1V-1116. We pasteurized and sulfited
the mead. All was going fine. We racked it three weeks after
starting the fermentation and tasted some of it. It had a
similar diapery/bad nose and a funky taste (unfortunately, I
can't figure out what it tasted like). Not as bad as the
chocolate, though.
I don't think we had bacterial contamination in either
case. On both batches we used SODIUM metabisulfite (not
potassium metabisulfite) to about 40-50ppm. We used Calistoga
mineral water for the water. Could there have been something bad
in the honey? Could the yeast have produced these funky smells?
-Alson
------------------------------
Subject: How much fruit/gallon in a mel?
From: Russ_Hobaugh@erm.com
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:29:27 -0400
Is there a good rule of thumb for lbs. of fruit / gallon in a mel?
My first one I put about 12-14 lbs in for a 5 gallon batch, it was
intensely fruity. Unfornunately, it picked up some wild yeast,
so after a year, I had a "smoke" flavored strawberry mead--
NOT pleasant. Which is better, campden
tablets or holding the fruit about 150 for 20 minutes or so?
I am also getting ready to do a lime mead, should the zest
go in the primary or secondary?? TIA
Russ Hobaugh
Goob' Dog Brewery
Birdsboro PA
------------------------------
Subject: Baltimore Mazers? & Killing yeast to keep Mead Sweet?
From: JLong@VertisInc.com
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:41:32 -0400
Hello Everyone,
Actually I have two Questions: The first one is, are there any
Baltimore, MD people making Mead on the Digest? I ask because it is always
nice to have a few people near you that share your hobby.
My second question is this, what is the best recommended way to kill a
fermentation and keep your Mead sweet. I know there are several different
ways to do this, but I was wonder what everyone's opinion is on how I can
do this without destroying the flavor.
Thanks for the help!
Sincerely,
- - John Long
Baltimore, MD
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #870, 21 September 2001
From: Ddweyr@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 18:07:04 EDT
Regarding Steve Gaskin's question on vanilla beans. I made a very nice
vanilla mead a few years ago. I put one split vanilla bean in when
pasteurizing the original gallon of honey. A couple of months later, I added
more honey with another bean and the end result had a definite and pleasant
vanilla flavor.
Dennis Key
Dragonweyr,NM
USA
PS: Thanks to every one of our worldwide friends who are giving their support
during this dark and difficult time.
------------------------------
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #871, 25 September 2001
From: Lenny Geoghegan <LenGeoghegan@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:08:36 -0400
Recently there were a couple of posts about using anise in mead, one saying
it was a bad idea. Well, it's an idea I've had for a while without doing
anything about it. Has anyone tried anise or licorice with good results?
How much of which did you use?
Thanks,
Len
------------------------------
Subject: Rhodomel & making rosewater
From: "Mitch Rice" <mitch@bloomington.in.us>
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:34:46 -0500
Da Jamster formed the electrons to say:
>I pruned all of the flowers off of the bush, and boiled just the petals
>until I had enough 'rose water' to make a 5 gallon batch.
I have not done this recently, but most rose water recipes call for
simmering, not boiling the water. Older recipes call for placing the
petals in a shallow dish with water in the sunshine, no other heating.
I think the idea is that the higher the temperature, the more of the
rose essence volatilizes, rather than being suspended in the water.
Anyone have any differing information?
Mitch
Mitch Rice
Webmaster/Consultant
mitch@bloomington.in.us
------------------------------
Subject: just a thought on yeast..
From: Jonathan <wbstudio@sonic.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:05:54 -0700
In issue #871 i saw two articles on yeast, one about D-47 and another on
rehydration of yeast. As far as D-47 goes, it tends to become
very active after a few days and will cause great amounts of foam.
The best thing that can be done with this is to keep the fermentation
on the cool side, about 55 degrees F. As far as rehydration goes,
adding your yeast to warm (90 - 100 degree water) about an hour
before pitching is the best, no sugar is needed in the water if you
pitch
the yeast within an hour.
Cheers!
Jonathan
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #871, 25 September 2001
From: Jonathan <wbstudio@sonic.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:09:06 -0700
I am afraid that I used too much sulphite (1/4 tsp per 2 gallons) and
this is somehow inhibiting the fermentation. If so, what should I do?
Will it recover? Or do I have to throw it out and start over? It smells
wonderful :)
Geoffrey,
If the brew is bubbling away, no worries! As long as it smells good
you are doing fine. In my opinion sulfites are not nessicary until the
first racking.
Cheers!
Jonathan
------------------------------
Subject: Lavender mead
From: Gasco58@aol.com
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 20:29:48 EDT
>The second question; Steve from Australia mentions a >lavender mead. We
>have one in the carboy, I'd be interested to hear how >much laverder was
used,
>did youu make a tea or steep it in the must, and how did >it turn out.
Hello Marcia,
I used 1 litre (1 quart) by volume, of fresh picked flowers to 10 litres (2.5
gallons) must. I just dropped the flowers in at the last moment in the
pasteurisation process to kill any nasties, and minimise flavour loss!
Usually I do my initial ferment in an open fermenter for first 24 hours
(covered) stirring vigorously to re-oxygenate the must, then transfer to the
carboy. It was at this stage that I removed the lavender flowers.
As I mentioned in my post, this mead is shaping up to be my best. It has a
taste a bit like ginger with a distinct lavender aroma. Mmmmm!
Steve
------------------------------
Subject: RE: rhodomel - which rose?
From: Russ Riley <russriley61999@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:44:46 -0700 (PDT)
>From the last MLD:
> From: "Da Jamster" <dajamster@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 07:47:35 +0000
...I pruned all of the flowers off of the bush, and boiled just the petals
until I had enough 'rose water' to make a 5 gallon batch. Added honey,
raisins and an orange. My life got a bit hectic and it sat in my closet for
6 months. Then in early December, I remembered it and checked it out...
It was incredible. It tasted the way the roses smelled...
Jamie
____________________________
Jamie: This sounds really good, can you be more
specific? Like how much and what kind of ingredients?
Also, how did you sanitize the raisins and orange?
Thanks
Russ
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Trader Joe's, etc
From: "Ken Taborek" <ken.taborek@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 10:05:37 -0400
Hi Tess,
> Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #870, 21 September 2001
> From: Tess Snider <malkin@Radix.Net>
> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 16:37:43 -0400 (EDT)
[snipped]
> Trader Joe's can be found in numerous locations in Connecticut, Illinois,
> Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Ohio,
> Pennsylvania, and Virginia.
I found them, and bought 6 of their 3lb cans of mesquite honey. :)
Many thanks to you and the others who posted about them. Even though they
have a few stores within a decent driving distance from me, I'd never
checked them out.
> I've been sticking to smaller batches lately,
> because I have to buy all my brewing water, which is a hassle. I'd *love*
> to use my well water, but it's *way* too sulphury, and I don't think
> there's much demand out there for brimstone metheglin!
Will it boil or evaporate out? I buy spring water in gallon or 2.5 gallon
jugs, and refill a few empties from my tap, let the chlorine evaporate out,
then cap them and store them for the next batch. This water is then used in
the pasturization process.
> Oh yeah, and I think I'd like to trade some bottles with local folks who
> make mead. I find it a good exercise, because:
>
> 1.) It gives me a chance to try other meads, so I have a standard
> of comparison for my own. Because of the screwed up alcohol laws
> around here, it's hard to get your hands on anything that's not
> the Berrywine Plantation (AKA Linganore) basic mead, so we
> amateurs are worth our weight in gold!
If you like metheglyn, VA vintner Stonewall makes a spiced pyment that is
pretty tastey, if a bit on the sweet side. It's sold at Totalitarian
Beverage.
> So, if you'd like to do any trading, we should meet up some time!
Where are you located?
> I haven't had the good fortune to meet any apiarists yet. Do you know any
> out my way, or are they more towards the hills, for the most part?
Ironically enough, the only one I know who sells in bulk lives in Arlington.
Email me offline if you'd like his number.
> If you want to do some very small experimental batches with unusual
> honeys, Fresh Fields has some interesting off-beat honeys available, but
> they can run a little pricey.
A lot pricey, last I checked. :-(
I'd love to make a blueberry melomel with blueberry honey, but I'm looking
for a better price than ~$3/lb...
I've just ordered a 5 gallon pail of orange blosson honey from Dutch Gold
Honey (www.dutchgoldhoney.com) Their pricing is very good, and I had a good
experience with their customer service when I enquired about shipping costs.
I'll let you know if we're still happy with them when it arrives. :)
Cheers,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Cooking/brewing roses
From: Jane Beckman <jilara@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:56:03 -0700 (PDT)
First off, let me say that rosewater definitely works.
It's distilled from damask roses, which has been used
for cooking in the middle east for at least a
millenium. Just add just before you ferment it (after
the must has cooled, if you heat it), so that it
doesn't evaporate off because of the heat.
I haven't made a rhodomel in years, but when I did, I
generally used about five quarts of *heavily scented*
rose petals to 2 gallons, put in the juice and peel of
one orange, and boiled it all with the honey *in a
closed pot* for about 20 minutes. Strain and put into
your primary fermentation vessel.
Generally speaking, the "old" roses are the best for
both cooking and brewing. I cook with roses a lot.
Of those, I think that the gallicas and damasks give
the best flavor. These are specialty roses, so you
may have to look around for them. I don't think the
tea rose flavor holds up as well, and it generally
takes more petals. (Do NOT confuse tea roses with
*hybrid* tea roses, the standard roses you find in the
nursury. The teas are one of the ancestors of the
hybrid teas, but they're completely different roses!)
For cooking and brewing, of the hybrid teas, the best
is Oklahoma, though that one is hard to find,
nowadays. The hybrid tea roses go through fashion
trends, and the older varieties disappear. But if you
can find it (often in the bargain bin at the local
discount house), this is one of the best "modern"
roses for cooking and brewing, dark red with a heavy
scent/taste.
Yes, I am a rose affectionato, have about four dozen
different varieties, most older ones. I cook with
them on a fairly regular basis.
Go for the rhodomel! Made with the right roses,
rhodomel is one of the most exquisite meads I've ever
tasted!
Jilara
------------------------------
Subject: re: too much sulphite - off list
From: "Geoffrey T. Falk" <gtf@cirp.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 17:43:12 -0600 (MDT)
Thanks to the people who e-mailed regarding the problem I had with
getting my cranberry mead started. I had put 1/4 tsp potassium
metabisulphite, which is probably way too much.
I poured the 2 gal. back and forth several times to try to blow off
some of the sulphite, and finally got it started today. It is now
krausening nicely.
Here's the recipe again, for anyone who is interested: 2 US gallon jugs
of Safeway Cranberry Cocktail (contains *no* sorbate); 1 kg jar of
Alberta clover honey, and Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast. (I chose this yeast
because it is claimed to metabolize malic acid.)
I will transfer into 2 gallon jugs once it settles down.
Geoffrey
------------------------------
Subject: WOW!!! A gueze mead!!!
From: "Matt_lists" <Matt_lists@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:40:42 -0700
I found thins while looking something up for a client. This stuff sounds
like it could be some awesome and unique mead. For those of you who do
not now what a Gueze is, it is an unflavored lambic style beer from
Belgium. This beer is high in wheat and goes through a complex and
totally wild fermentation. It goes through a lactic fermentation so it
is very tart and is also earthy. I think the tartness should play nicely
off of the sweetness from the mead and the oak aging will add even more
complexity to an already insanely complex beverage. I'm hoping I can
get hold of some of this as it looks really cool.
http://www.bunitedint.com/meadthegueze.html
Matt Maples
Liquid Solutions
12162 SW Scholls Ferry Rd
Tigard, OR 97223
503-524-9722
www.liquidsolutions.ws (web site)
http://list.liquidsolutions.ws/scripts/lyris.pl (mailing list)
May mead regain its rightful place as the beverage of gods and kings.
------------------------------
Subject: Re:rhodomel - which rose?
From: Marc Shapiro <m_shapiro@bigfoot.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 15:50:07 -0400
> Subject: rhodomel - which rose?
> From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 19:47:39 -0600 (MDT)
>
> It seems like few people in the group here have made a rhodomel; even fewer
> have liked the result. So this is a long shot, but has anyone worked on
> what sort of roses to use?
I made a rose petal wine that turned out very good. I haven't done a
rhodomel, but What I learned for the wine should carry over well.
Definately use antique roses if at all possible. I would suggest
Damask, or Gallica. The antique roses have a MUCH stronger aroma and
that comes from the oils that you want in your rhodomel. I used a
modern variwty that had a good aroma, but it wasn't enough, so I had to
supplement with rosewater. Using rosewater worked just fine. As for
how much rosewater to use, that depends on how much aroma you get from
your roses. There is no fixed rule on that.
Avoid any roses that come from a florist. They have been treated with
who-knows-what and I would not want to put a concentrated extract of
such into anything that I was going to ingest.
- --
Marc Shapiro "If you drink melomel every day,
m_shapiro@bigfoot.com you will live to be 150 years old,
Please visit "The Meadery" at: unless your wife shoots you."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ -- Dr. Ferenc Androczi, winemaker,
Little Hungary Farm Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Red Clover Metheglin
From: "mmeleen" <mmeleen@tiac.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 21:33:02 -0400
Greetings all,
Does anyone have any knowledge about the use of red clover flowers?
During the past summer solstice I made a metheglin/melomel using red
clovers. It was a five gallon batch that had a one gallon of sun tea
made with fresh picked red clover flowers, a pot of tea made from dried
red clover flowers and some organic white grape and pear nectar for the
liquids. I took the precaution of sulfiting the must.
A few days into fermentation, I added a gallon of fresh picked red
clover flowers that had been well washed and then frozen for a few days.
The problem is, since then I have read in an old winebook that
clover is in the "doubtful" category as being safe for winemaking, and
one web site about red clover as an herb rather cryptically said,
absolutely safe, unless fermented.
Now, I believe that Acton & Duncan's Mead book has a recipe
for red clover metheglin in it, in which the fresh flowers are added a
few days into fermentation. And as an herbalist, I know that red clover
makes a healthful and blood-purifying tea that is safe even for infants.
So, whats up with that? Does anyone know of any reason why I should not
consume that 5 gallon carboy? (not all at once, of course :-)) It smells
delightful, fermented normally. The only unusual thing I've noticed is
that it is clearing rather slowly, and the sun tea that I made with
fresh blossoms was a milky pink color rather than the clear tawny red
that the=20
dried tea had.=20
I probably wont be drinking this until the next solstice. If
anyone can shed some light on the safety of fermented red clover I'd be
grateful. I'll probably drink it anyway and see what happens <smile>
May the yeast live long & prosper,
Melissa
------------------------------
Subject: Rhodomel
From: "mmeleen" <mmeleen@tiac.net>
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 21:48:46 -0400
Hello all,
Just wanted to add a few thoughts to the rhodomel thread. I read one
post wondering about adding rose water, that sounds good to me. It also
reminded me of something. I make a rose glycerite by steeping fresh
aromatic rose petals in a glycerine/water solution until it turns pink
and smells and tastes delightful.
Now, I've never tried this, but I saw that the local home brew store
sells glycerine, so I asked the guy what that is used for in wine
making, and he said it is added at bottling to sweeten the wine slightly
and give it "legs" or body.So, why not use a nice rose glycerine
instead? Might work...it is very very aromatic and has a beautiful sweet
taste. If anyone tries it, or anyone has used glycerine at all, let me
know what you think of it. Myself, I try not to sweeten my wines and try
to make the end result have its "legs" all on its own. But I think it
might make a nice addition to a straight mead or a rhodomel to give that
extra floral aroma & taste.
If I ever find a source of enough rose petals for a 5 gallon batch of
mel, (alot!) I intend to try it, someday. Good luck!
Melissa
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #871, 25 September 2001
From: Jim Johnston <tervale@quixnet.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 17:31:43 -0500
Re: Rose petal metheglin (or Rhodomel if you prefer)
I made a gallon of this about a year ago, just 3 lb. orange blossom
honey and 2 quarts of loosely packed mixed shrub rose petals from my
yard (frozen, actually over a months time of picking), the usual
nutrients and a simple wine yeast. Bottled after about 8 months with
a couple of rackings, and ended up at 10% ABV or so. The rose adds a
bit of bitterness to the flavor, so I wouldn't recommend trying a dry
mead like this. The aroma and color are wonderful! I thinks that
this may improve some with age, and I plan to do a batch every year
or two to compare. This year, due to a fairly dry, hot summer, our
roses did not produce many flowers, so next year I hope.
- --
- --Jim
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #872
*******************************
