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Mead Lovers Digest #0853
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #853, 13 June 2001
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #853 13 June 2001
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE: JASMINE-GREEN TEA MEAD (Steven Sanders)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #852, 5 June 2001 (David Chubb)
Re: High OG musts vs. feeding & date mead question (Joshua Laff)
Re: more on meadowsweet (JazzboBob@aol.com)
Biz or Club op!! (Mark Ottenberg)
Dates, figs etc. (Adam)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #852, 5 June 2001 ("Kenneth Irwin")
Feeding the fermentation/Sweetening ("Ken Schramm")
date mead (KittyTambling/Jim Buttitta)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #852, 5 June 2001 (Christopher C Carpenter)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #852, 5 June 2001 (MLCrary@aol.com)
Re: Meadowsweet <resend> (Dan McFeeley)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: JASMINE-GREEN TEA MEAD
From: Steven Sanders <geigertube@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:17:00 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: JASMINE-GREEN TEA MEAD
> From: <CELTMAN@prodigy.net>
> Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:07:39 -0400
>
> Hi Folks - I bought some Jasmine flavored green tea
> from an asian food
> store and would like to try making a mead with it.
> Wow - what a great aroma!
> I looked through the archives, but the jasmine
> recipes did not say
> whether they were pure Jasmine or not. My question
> is: Has anyone made a
> "green tea" mead, and will there be any problems
> (acidity/alkalinity)
> that would interfere with fermentation?
I made a green tea braggot with wheat malt recently,
and the result was very pleasing...
I used a box of Good Earth green tea that I steeped in
the brew water, and then added 3.3 lbs of wheat/barley
malt and 6 lbs of wildflower honey... used nottingham
ale yeast..
The first batch i made took about 3 months to ferment
out, but the second batch i just made is looking like
it will finish up much sooner than that.. maybe a
month. It was probably temperature related; the first
batch was done in the winter with basement
temperatures in the 50's... Anyway, it seems to
ferment out well, and I havent noticed any problems..
.
If so, what
> would you recommend
> to fix the problem? I am thinking of making a
> straight mead and then
> adding the tea at a 2nd or 3rd racking. Would this
> be a better plan than
> just adding it in the primary?
Adding the tea later is something i had considered and
will probably do with the next batch.. It will
probably have better aroma retention that way.. the
primary ferment wont blow off those tea aromas..
good luck!
steven
=====
My moon based death ray
panics the people of earth.
Mock my theories now!
http://www.studiosputnik.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #852, 5 June 2001
From: David Chubb <csu.vetmed@vt.edu>
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:23:50 -0400
>
>Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #851, 1 June 2001
>From: Christopher C Carpenter <Chris_Carpenter@ndsu.nodak.edu>
>Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:51:36 -0500
>
>Greetings to all in the Mead Hall..;O)
>
>I just joined this list, and I can already tell I am going to enjoy it very
>much. I have 2 inquiries, one about mead, and one a little more personal,
>just for my curiosity.
>
>1. I see very little information on Flower Blossom Meads, Which I have been
>doing lately, my latest being Lilac. Does anybody have any suggestions, or
>advice on this subject??.
I tried making a batch of rose petal meade and it turned out
horribly..... and that was that for flower bloom meades for me. I make make
an attempt when I buy another Carbouy and can try another experimental batch.
>2. I wonder how many people on this list belong to Society for Creative
>Anachronisms, (I do, this is my main motivation for brewing meads over more
>contemporary brews).
I used to be an SCA person. Though I think of myself as more of an
"Free Companions Medievalists Society" (If you know the name of the group
I'd be VERY suprised. We were based out of Virginia Beach area.) I was a
medium wieght fighter (rapier) and "engineer/artificer" (we built things to
thow big rocks). FCMS uses "live" steel (1/4 rounded & blunted....our armor
reqs are much more stringent than the SCA) and is an eclectic group.
--David Chubb
AKA - Master DraKorth Dalamar (Look it up....it's Gaelic
not Dragonlance :-P)
Computer Technician/Network Liason
|========================|
| David P. Chubb
| VMRCVM Computer Tech
| Phase II Duckpond Dr.
| Virginia Tech
| Blacksburg, VA 24061
| Phone:(540) 231-7969
| E-mail: csu.vetmed@vt.edu
| Pager: (540) 557-9649 (digital)
| Fax: (540) 231-7367
|========================|
------------------------------
Subject: Re: High OG musts vs. feeding & date mead question
From: Joshua Laff <elfboy0@netzero.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:04:34 -0700
Anthony.Karian@sce.com wrote:
>Regarding Dick Dunn's question about the viability of higher original
>gravity musts, I have to say that my experience has been completely
>contrary to the established wisdom. I have consistently made meads with
>OGs in the 1.140 to 1.149 range without ever having a slow or stuck
>fermentation. (Ok, the Vierka yeast are slow starters, but they are
...
>First, of course, is sterilization. More significant to the topic is I
>always add nutrients, I always use a large and healthy starter at these
>higher OGs, and I always oxygenate the must well. In the absence of an
>oxygen tank I've put the water or juice to be added into a blender and
I believe the key here is nutrients, and potentially more significant,
*fruit* nutrients. I consistently make extremely high OG meads. I have tend
to feed my meads, but I have started three batches with as much as 5 lbs of
honey per gallon. One of these batches contained raspberries, and fermented
extremely quickly. One of these batches contained lemons, and fermented
extremely quickly. One of these batches contained vanilla beans. It's still
going. I started it January 5, 2000. I have since diluted it, added yeast
and clove, and its still going. (I'm planning on taking a more active role
in the resurrection process shortly).
However, I've been able to conclude that, (1) adding fruit to your mead
provides a healthy fermentation with even extremely high starting OGs, and
(2) my sterilization procedures must be pretty damn good if I've got a must
that has survived 1 1/2 years without contamination. :)
- - Joshua
------------------------------
Subject: Re: more on meadowsweet
From: JazzboBob@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 00:30:14 EDT
Making an experimental tea to taste and smell an herb or spice is one way of
learning it's characteristics. However, many of the most active constituents
and properties of plants are not water soluble and are best extracted by
alcohol or distillation. This may be why so many of the old tonics were made
with fermented beverages, either meads or ales. Also, many of the finer
aromatics can be lost to steam while steeping in boiling water. And further,
I don't like to dilute my finished meads with additions of water or tea.
I prefer to steep my herbs and spices in the cooling must to pasteurize them.
I then allow them to ferment in the primary for a week or two before racking
away. This way the gradual buildup of alcohol can extract the flavors and
properties of the herb. I seem to lock in more flavor and aromatics this
way. It may take a few experimental brews to get a feel for the proper
quantity herbs necessary. I've sometimes blended batches that were either
too strong or weak to get the right flavor. I have year old sage ales and
lemon balm ales that are quite aromatic made this way.
Bob Grossman
> Has anyone on
> this list used meadowsweet in their meads? How much
> would you suggest I use
> and what is the best way of extracting the flavor
> (put it in the primary,
> boil it (make herb tea) or something else)?
If you're not familiar with this herb/spice, you'd be
best off making a tea out of it and blending it when
the mead clears. This way, you can taste it as you go
and stop when you've added enough.
Phil
========
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.pipeline.com/~dogglebe/nychg.html
------------------------------
Subject: Biz or Club op!!
From: Mark Ottenberg <mark@riverrock.org>
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:01:02 -0600
>Subject: Biz op? :-)
>From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
>Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 21:37:08 -0600 (MDT)
>
>A friend of mine recently acquired a large (>10K sq ft) ag/industrial
>building in Mead, Colorado, and he's looking to rent space in it. (Yes,
>there really is such a town as Mead. 105 00 W, 40 14 N, for the skeptics.)
>
>Seems like a great opportunity: imagine "The Mead Meadery"! Imagine being
>in a town that's named after what your business does.
>- ---
>Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
> ...Simpler is better.
Yes, I have often thought that it would be a great place to brew. I travel
past the sign that points the way from I-25 every weekend on my way from Ft
Collins to Denver and back and even know someone who's last name is Mead --
though she lives in Gunbarrel. If nothing else, would they consider
renting a bit o space for a mead club? I'd love to be part of a brewing
and TASTING club based there!!!!
Peace,
-- Mark
------------------------------
Subject: Dates, figs etc.
From: Adam <a24061@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 03:32:01 -0700 (PDT)
> I tried this a few years back. I lived overseas in Spain for several
> years. Unless you can find a producer that will sell you FRESH dates do NOT
> use dried dates. Most producers use a Sulfur based smoking technique to
> "preserve" the dates (similar process to preserving figs). This coupled
> with fermentation tastes nasty (not to mention some of the by products of
> sulfur fermentation might be harmful) if you can get it to ferment at all.
Yes, I once put a bag of assorted dried fruit with sulphur in 5 gallons of beer
once -- the smells were unbelievable and impossible to eliminate.
> | Virginia Tech
> | Blacksburg, VA 24061
BTW, that was in Blacksburg in 1990!
- -- Adam
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #852, 5 June 2001
From: "Kenneth Irwin" <kirwin@wittenberg.edu>
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:34:18 -0400
Hi Kevin,
After reading your message I went home and opened a batch of jasmine-tea
mead that's been waiting for a good excuse to taste. I started it in Oct
1998 and tasted it for the first time last night. It was a very simple batch:
8 cups jasmine tea (green)
7 3/4 lbs clover honey
enough water to make 2/5 gallons
wine yeast (type not recorded, but probably a Lalvin)
It was nice enough, but sharper than I'd hoped for -- sweet, but with an
alcoholic evaporative tang. I'd guess that the quantity of tea is to blame.
I couldn't have used any less and still gotten the jasmine flavor to come
out, but I think inherent is the use of tea is that the flavor for tea is
supposed to be subtle in the tea, not just subtle one you dilute the tea
6-fold. Your idea of adding the tea after fermentation might be a good one;
another thought I had was to use jasmine flowers instead of tea. They could
be harder to come by though. I think I'd also use a mellower honey -- maybe
a nice wildflower instead of clover.
I pretty much consider jasmine and mead to be the height of erotic
flavoring, but the sharpness of this batch doesn't achieve the pinnacle I'd
hoped for; while this may make it safer to serve, I'll have to try again to
get the effect i was actually going for. I'd love to hear how yours turns
out, and what you did to it.
May you never thirst,
Ken
>Subject: JASMINE-GREEN TEA MEAD
>From: <CELTMAN@prodigy.net>
>Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:07:39 -0400
>
>Hi Folks - I bought some Jasmine flavored green tea from an asian food
>store and would like to try making a mead with it.
>Wow - what a great aroma!
>I looked through the archives, but the jasmine recipes did not say
>whether they were pure Jasmine or not. My question is: Has anyone made a
>"green tea" mead, and will there be any problems (acidity/alkalinity)
>that would interfere with fermentation? If so, what would you recommend
>to fix the problem? I am thinking of making a straight mead and then
>adding the tea at a 2nd or 3rd racking. Would this be a better plan than
>just adding it in the primary?
> I am pretty new at this (1 batch bubbling right now) and would
>appreciate any pearls of wisdom you could offer.
> thanks
> Kevin ( CELTMAN@PRODIGY.NET )
------------------------------
Subject: Feeding the fermentation/Sweetening
From: "Ken Schramm" <schramk@resa.net>
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 10:27:36 -0400
Dick Dunn asks about mead fermentations and the desire to have meads with
high alcohol contents without feeding.
A couple of Dick's inquiries:
>>>So...are yeasts that much better nowadays? Do you think it's practical to
start with a must around (say) 1.130? <<<
Actually, I think they are a bit better. I know that you can find wine
yeasts that have much wider ranges for pH and I believe even lower free
amino nitrogen requirements than beer yeasts. I have had fermentations
with Lalvin 71b (ETOH tolerance 14%) that I started very close to 1.140,
albeit with Fermaid and pretty staggeringly high fruit components (up to
20 lbs/5gallons). Lalvin's EC-1118 has ETOH tolerance to 18%, making it a
natural for big bombers, and I have used it in musts that had to go above
1.130 starting, although they were unmeasured (18 pounds in a 5 gallon
batch, which is a 1.5 to 3.5 honey to water ratio). My highest OG for a
successful ferment was 1.142 for a cherry must with 3 gallons of cherry
juice and 17 lbs of honey and H20 to 5 gallons, but I started that with
1118 _after_ Red Star Epernay had failed. At roughly .008 to yield 1%
ETOH, a must at 1.142 would hit circa 18%, but it stalled at 1.012, which
is where I bottled it. That's still over 16%, and this stuff walks the
walk.
I haven't set out to make a mead stronger than 16 percent or so, and so I
don't know what to say beyond that. Actually, I did make a dry metheglin
a few years back that went to about 17%+ by apparent alcohol (1.130 to
0.994), but I didn't like it much because the alcohol was just overpowering.
That was done with Red Star Pasteur champagne, yeast energizer and
yeast nutrient and no feeding. It finished drier than I wanted, and that
was before Pfeiffer taught me the sweetening trick. I do know that
Lallemand has distillers yeast that will go above 25%, but I have no
experience with that. Eis-mead might offer a way to boost ETOH levels,
but that is a discussion best left alone. Another option that doesn't get
discussed much among the amateur crowd that gets used extensively by the
pros is fortification. Everclear is cheap, easy to obtain in many places,
legal (same equivocation) and very easy to control. I'm not sure why it
hasn't been embraced by the mead making set. The use of liqueurs has been
advocated for some years now in the beer making arena. This just seems
like a logical and very manageable way to go.
High starting gravity ferments: there are several keys. Good oxygenation
is critical. I have used an O2 bubbler, but I have of late taken to
plastic bucket fermenters with adequate must / air contact for the initial
ferment, generally about a week and sometimes even longer. I have been
willing to allow the must to be exposed as such for longer if there is
good pressure on the airlock. I'm pretty sure I even remember Lalvin
actually recommending leaving the airlock off for the first couple of days
of the ferment to maintain the yeast's access to O2. I transfer to glass
as soon as things slow down.
Nutrients are big. I have used Fermaid at the recommended dosage. Dan
McConnell clued me in to the use of two cups to a pound of dry malt
extract as a fermentation booster, and man it works like a charm. It takes
off like a rocket. I may cut back to a cup and see if it still has the
desired effect. Lalvin notes that suspended particulate matter also helps
to prevent rapid floc (which removes the yeast from suspension, reduces
contact with sugars and slows fermentation), and the malt may help in that
sense, too.
Rousing or agitation is important. I rouse once a day for three days,
especially if the must is under a cap of fruit.
Dan and I have stressed pH control after the Morse and Steinkraus model.
I think there is a good chance that this can be far more important with
some yeast strains than others, but I don't have any data to back that up,
it' just a common sense thing. I haven't found any info from Lalvin on
that, but maybe I'll get Clayton's info from Dan and see if there is any
light that can be shed on that.
In short, I have exceeded 3.5 lbs per gallon lately without too much
trouble using Lalvin 71b and EC-1118. My stock recipe for a fruit mead
has been 20lbs of fruit, 18 lbs of honey and water to 5.5 to 6 gallons
with the Fermaid (5 grams, and I readily admit to fudging that when I add
it) and 10 grams of Lalvin 71b, rehydrated. I don't boil and I don't
sulfite. Getting an OG on a must with that much fruit is pretty much
futile. By my calcs it has to approach 1.140. Remove the volume of the
cellulose, though, and you end up with a weighty must that fills a 5
gallon secondary carboy. That was the recipe for the Cherry mead I took
to the AHA national conference last year. Three weeks in the primary, two
months in secondary. It went to 1.000 and I sweetened it with honey to
1.025. Non-scientific single data point: since giving up the boil and
speeding up my fermentations, I do not perceive any of the fabled "mead
hangover."
I have no professional or economic ties to Lalvin. I just like their
stuff. Their web site is
http://www.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/lalvin.html
The sweetening trick: kill off the yeast with 1/2 tsp potassium sorbate
per gallon a week before bottling. Add honey at bottling to sweeten,
figuring .007 to .008 of gravity/sweetness per pound of honey added. Yes,
it makes the beverage more viscous, but so are sweet wines. Yes, Potasium
sorbate is a preservative, but I have gotten over it, especially after
considering how lax I am about my other food and beverage intake. Heck,
alcohol is a preservative, too.
Yours,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: date mead
From: KittyTambling/Jim Buttitta <mugwert@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:00:06 -0400
I've mead making 2 or 3 batches of date mead a year for the last few years.
Here is the recipe I use for a 5 gallon batch:
15 pounds honey
1 - 2 pounds of dates - I use the larger amount with lighter honeys and the
lesser amount with darker honeys, like the Blueberry honey I frequently get
here in Maine
yeast nutrient
acid blend - amount depends on result of taste test and acid testing
Wyeast Sweet Mead yeast
Batches typically have a starting gravity of 1.1 and finish about 1.025
This usually stays in the primary about 4 weeks and in the secondary about
5 months, or until clear, before bottling. It is quite drinkable at 6
months of age but of course gets better with age, if of course it all
doesn't get drunk!
For dates I have used those 1 pound bricks of baking dates you get in the
supermarket. A couple of years ago I got a deal on a big box of baking
date pieces rolled in oat flour at my local food co-op. These also worked
fine, except the flour caused some haze. A few drops of brewers amylase in
the secondary cleared that up.
The bottom line is that this recipe produces a mead that I and my friends
enjoy. The date taste is not really very noticeable, they simply increase
the complexity, not unlike that a good show mead made from very good honey.
Jim
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #852, 5 June 2001
From: Christopher C Carpenter <Chris_Carpenter@ndsu.nodak.edu>
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:24:10 -0500
Subject: Rose Petal Mead
From: "redrocklover" <spiritflight@kachina.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 13:41:11 -0700
I just made a Red Rose Petal Mead and I have some questions:
3 quarts red rose petals
3 1/2 lbs desert wildflower honey
2 tsp acid blend
Lalvin Ki-V1116 yeast, double pitched
water to one gallon
Original gravity: 1.100
Ending gravity: 1.002
Raised gravity to 1.012
acid: approx. 4.0 tartaric
I did a standard pulp fermentation with campden, strained and racked,
added sparkeloid, and later racked again. All is well, but it tastes
more like rose petal tea than mead. It's extremely mild - too mild in my
book. What would you all suggest to make it better now and in the
future?
Thanks!
*************************************************************
Greetings unto the Meadhall....
Since i have had little response from the hall about flower blossom meads,
guess I am going to be the one with some kind of response to this.
Yes, you will always get a very mild taste out of any flower blossom.
Please, always use as fresh petals as you possibly can, dried will never
work. It is my understanding its the aromatic oils (just as in perfumes)
that are converted into the flavoring of the mead, so you need to use
fresh, very strong smelling blossoms at all times, and in that same vein,
you need to use very mild honies, or else it will overpower the effect you
are trying to achieve.
To add my two cents worth about "feeding" the meads in general, this is
what I ALWAYS do. I prefer to make a straight batch with whatever base I
chose (usually in 5 gallons) and brew it to just dry. Then when I hit
secondary fermentation, I move to 2 1 gallon jugs, and a 3 gallon
carboy(which will be put in gallon jugs in turn), sample and adjust each
one. This is when I add my spices, or sweeten or whatever seems to be
appropriate for the gallon or so I am working on at the moment. If I like
one, I bottle it for use in the near future. I age all my meads in this
manner, racking as they need it, and seldom age much in corked bottles.
Perhaps this seems unorthodox to many, but it is a simple way to get just
what you want.
Chris Carpenter
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #852, 5 June 2001
From: MLCrary@aol.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:17:38 EDT
Chris Carpenter asks about flower blossom meads. My brew partner and I have
made mead with violet flowers and with sweet woodruff. You can get amounts,
methods, and details at our webpage, unicornunchained.com. The first violet
was experimental, strange, & really delicious. We have been unable to
duplicate it, but the other attempts were also very tasty. The first woodruff
was made with the flowers, then we learned that it is the sprigs which are
used in making traditional Maywine (to be drunk at Beltane). We used the
sprigs in the next batch of woodruff. It had a more woody character, the
flowers gave a very mild flavor. We also made a mead using sprigs of thyme
with the flowers on them. Thyme flowers are really, really tiny, and there
was much more sprig than flower. It also had a woody character. If you are
interested in edible flowers, there is an excelllent book by Interweave Press
called Flowers in the Kitchen. It includes a receipe for Maywine, using a
Moselle or Rhine Wine, but I have made it with mead, and I am sure it is
better that way. I'd be interested in hearing how your lilac mead turns out,
as well. Flowers in the Kitchen has a wonderful receipe using lavender
flowers, and we thought that would make a lovely mead, but have not tried
yet. Lavender should be in bloom soon so maybe next month. Our friend Louis
once made a wonderful dandelion mead, but it was very labor-intensive. Of
course, just as with fruits, once you begin brewing, you begin looking at
flower and many other edibles with a view to 'how would that go in a mead?
How much would I need?" Hope this is some help. Marcia
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Meadowsweet <resend>
From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 07:11:32 -0500
Kristinn Eysteinsson wrote:
>I live in an area in Iceland where meadowsweet (Fillipendula Ulmaria)
>grows in abundance. The Icelandic name for this herb is mjadurt which
>means mead-herb. This is because the Vikings used it to flavor their
>mead. I would like to try making a meadowsweet metheglyn this summer.
>Has anyone on this list used meadowsweet in their meads? How much would
>you suggest I use and what is the best way of extracting the flavor
>(put it in the primary, boil it (make herb tea) or something else)?
>Also, what honey would you recomend?
Here's a little more background on meadowsweet and meadmaking -- an
article by James H. Dickson titled "Bronze Age Mead" (_Antiquities_
LII 1978) discusses a pre-Celtic mead made with lime honey and
meadowsweet. Found at the Bronze age burial site in Ashgrove Scotland,
it strongly suggests that honey was used in commerce since British lime
trees are not found in Scotland.
On the use of meadowsweet in meadmaking, Dickson notes:
It must be emphasized that early vernacular names of meadowsweet
are medesweete (as in Gerard's Herbal) and medewurte (as in
Turner's Herbal). These refer to mead (O. E. meodu), not meadows.
The current Swedish Mjodort meand 'mead herb.' From the sixteenth-
century herbalists to modern naturalists, notably Grigson in _The
Englishman's Flora_ and Mabey in _Food for Free_, reference is
made to the usefulness of meadowsweet in flavoring drinks. As in
instance I quote from Millar (1785, 381): 'The leaves and flowers
of this plant put into wine, mead or beer, give an agreeable taste
and smell, which some are very fond of.' p. 111
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
"You learn something old every day." Mr. McFeeley, Mr. Rogers Neighborhood
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #853
*******************************
