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Mead Lovers Digest #0855
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #855, 25 June 2001
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #855 25 June 2001
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
re: Litwiski mead from Poland, and oxidation (Dick Dunn)
Fortifying Mead (Anthony.Karian@sce.com)
Fractional Crystalization and Fortification (Marc Shapiro)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #853, 13 June 2001 (Marc Shapiro)
Sasparilla Metheglen? (Kharstin)
more apricot madness ("Micah Millspaw")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #854, 19 June 2001 (David Chubb)
A mead love story? (bmurray)
freeze distillation (Chuck)
Fortification of Mead... (Joe Kaufman)
MLD #853, Mead Fortification ("jerry bewrry")
Potassium Sorbate (Nathan Kanous)
freeze-concentration legality (in US) (Dick Dunn)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead. There is
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: re: Litwiski mead from Poland, and oxidation
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:01:07 -0600 (MDT)
Matt Maples <Matt_lists@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I just got a bottle of Litewiski mead from Poland. I thought it was good
> but I wanted other opinions. It has sherry notes (nutty, vanilla), it is
> a sweet mead, and has a brownish color.
I'm curious about the sherry and brownish part. This usually shouts out
"oxidation". Many, perhaps most, meadmakers/drinkers would consider this a
fault, although a surprising number would not. (But some folks also like
skunked beer because it tastes "European" to them:-) The fact that sherry
is somewhat oxidized says that the taste is not all bad, in moderation.
But does it fit with the taste of the mead? A little bit maybe adds some
complexity; more than that adds harshness.
I have a raspberry melomel that became slightly oxidized. I consider it a
definite screwup on my part, although it's nowhere near bad enough to make
the mead undrinkable. But at a recent dinner gathering, when I offered
this mead and wouldn't say what fruit was in it, the group batted ideas
back and forth until they finally agreed on . . . strawberry!
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
Subject: Fortifying Mead
From: Anthony.Karian@sce.com
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:09:53 -0700
> Freeze-concentration is illegal, as it is considered the same as
> distillation. Fortification is also illegal for the home winemaker,
> even when tax-paid spirits are used.
> Steve Daughhetee
Steve, the legalities regarding freeze-concentration have been discussed at
length in the past, and based on what was uncovered here (as well as my own
personal research) it is not illegal. If you are really interested you can
search the archives or contact the BATF (which if I remember correctly was
done previously). Regarding fortifying mead with spirits, I can't recall
any discussions about that issues' legality, but if it's ok to pour ethanol
into strawberry juice I'd feel quite safe pouring it into strawberry mead.
:) Note I refer to both U.S. rules and home consumption.
Tony
------------------------------
Subject: Fractional Crystalization and Fortification
From: Marc Shapiro <m_shapiro@bigfoot.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:09:59 -0400
Steve Daughhetee <sdd6@cornell.edu> said:
>
> Ken suggested freeze-concentration and fortification of meads with
> distilled spirits to obtain high-alcohol beverages.
> Freeze-concentration is illegal, as it is considered the same as
> distillation. Fortification is also illegal for the home winemaker,
> even when tax-paid spirits are used. This makes no sense at all.
> Lobby you congressman to liberate the amateur winemaker from these
> absurd restrictions.
True, fractional crystalization (freeze concentration) is considered the
same as distillation and is therefore illegal IN THE UNITED STATES. I
don't know how it is considered in other countries. Heck, in New
Zealand distillation is perfectly legal! I live in the U.S. and have to
abide by our puritanical laws, but not everyone here does.
As for fortification, where did you get the idea that it was illegal
even in the U.S.? My understanding is that it is perfectly legal, so
long as you are using tax paid spirits. Using non-tax paid spirits is
another story, but then we are back to the question of distillation. If
you can point to specific laws making fortification with tax-paid
spirits illegal in the U.S. I would like to see it.
- --
Marc Shapiro "If you drink melomel every day,
m_shapiro@bigfoot.com you will live to be 150 years old,
Please visit "The Meadery" at: unless your wife shoots you."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ -- Dr. Ferenc Androczi, winemaker,
Little Hungary Farm Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #853, 13 June 2001
From: Marc Shapiro <m_shapiro@bigfoot.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:22:27 -0400
"Ken Schramm" <schramk@resa.net> said:
> The sweetening trick: kill off the yeast with 1/2 tsp potassium sorbate
> per gallon a week before bottling.
Potassium sorbate DOES NOT KILL YEAST! It prevents the yeast from
budding and therefore prevents a colony from growing, but it does not
kill the yeast and will not stop an active fermentation. Once
fermentation has stopped for other reasons, sorbate can be used to keep
it from starting again, however, if you sweeten your mead.
- --
Marc Shapiro "If you drink melomel every day,
m_shapiro@bigfoot.com you will live to be 150 years old,
Please visit "The Meadery" at: unless your wife shoots you."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/ -- Dr. Ferenc Androczi, winemaker,
Little Hungary Farm Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Sasparilla Metheglen?
From: Kharstin <kharstin@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 04:50:51 -0700 (PDT)
Greetings everyone,
Does anyone have a good recipie for a sasparilla
metheglen? If not, does anyone know of a good
guidline I could use for determining how much
sasparilla I should use per gallon?
I thank everyone in advance for all their help.
Sincerely,
John
------------------------------
Subject: more apricot madness
From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa@silganmfg.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 07:17:40 -0500
after Chucks mentioning apricot fermentation.
I too just started an apricot melomel. I started the 8
gallon must at 4pm, by 6pm it was going strong,
by 10pm the airlock was pushed up and being held open.
The really suprising part is that the fermenter is only half
full and with a lot of head space I don't see much
activity in the airlock with meads or melomels. Most of
my mead ferments are rather sedate compared with beer
fermentations.
The apricots are some dehydrated ones that I got a
deal on. I washed them and halved them and then
dumped them into the fermenter. Then added the honey
and yeast.
I used my usual must preparation techniques and a good
strong yeast slurry with Diffco -nitrogen bacto as a yeast nutrient.
All pretty standard. So I am wondering whats with the apricots?
Anyone else observed this with apricots or similar fruit?
Micah Millspaw
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #854, 19 June 2001
From: David Chubb <csu.vetmed@vt.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:29:13 -0400
mead-request@talisman.com pounded plastic protuberances on 04:43 PM
6/19/2001 to produce:
>Subject: High OG musts vs. feeding
>From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke@merck.com>
>Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:17:17 -0400
>
>Joshua stated:
>
> >I believe the key here is nutrients, and potentially more significant,
> >*fruit* nutrients.
><snip>
>
>I've noticed that my melomels (3 total) fermented in half the time as my
>mead or metheglin (1 each). I haven't tried a braggot yet, but I am going
>with the assumption that if good quality malt extract or an all-grain mash
>were used, it would ferment in a manner similar to what we're talking about
>here with the melomels.
>
>Hrmmm... sounds like some experimentation is required. I'll just need to
>make some more and investigate! I've been itchin' to do those one gallon
>experimental batches ;-)
The issue I have with this is:
1) How will this change the taste.
I think the slower fermentation rates create longer amino acid
chains and therefore have a much more complex taste. IMO I have found most
straight meades and metheglins have a much more complex taste than
Melomels. More of the sherry notes & complex aftertastes. So something may
be said for the long ferment times. Most of my primary fermentations are at
least 3 months.
I do however agree that a more complex "food" for the yeasts is
somewhat necessary. I have experimented and tried a few things. Food grade
unflavored gelatin helps a bit (not much...just a tablespoon per 5 gallon
carboy). So does adding some additional different sugars. Straight
fructose, Maple Sugar (not syrup...since they sometimes use preservatives),
candying sugar. It also occasionally helps to add some acid blend since
that has some nutrients in it as well (and helps manage that all important
pH balance. Some of the commercial Yeast Nutrients are better than
others....my results really depend on the brand. (I'll post the brand I use
when I get home from work ;-))
--David Chubb
Computer Technician/Network Liason
|========================|
| David P. Chubb
| VMRCVM Computer Tech
| Phase II Duckpond Dr.
| Virginia Tech
| Blacksburg, VA 24061
| Phone:(540) 231-7969
| E-mail: csu.vetmed@vt.edu
| Pager: (540) 557-9649 (digital)
| Fax: (540) 231-7367
|========================|
------------------------------
Subject: A mead love story?
From: bmurray <bmurray@merr.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:01:18 -0500
A few months back I requested a recipe for a quick mead that I could
brew, bottle and hopefully have ready to drink for a friend's wedding in
August. I got a few ideas and made a wonderful orange-ginger concoction
that, unfortunately, will not be ready for the wedding in August, but
hey... more for me later! So I decided to bring a coriander metheglin
that I have had for a few years, and the couple getting married has
already tried it and liked it (he even proposed to her with it in hand).
My request... can anyone direct me to an appropriate story or tale of
lore that I could perhaps share with others at the reception... one
which connects the beverage with the history it shares with love and
romance and all that? I am the best man and the metheglin will be used
for the initial toast at the reception, and I would like to be able to
talk about the beverage and connect it to what I know about both the
groom and bride... any leads appreciated... thanks!
Bill
------------------------------
Subject: freeze distillation
From: Chuck <meadmakr@enteract.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:11:25 -0500 (CDT)
In MLD #854 Steve Daughhetee <sdd6@cornell.edu> wrote:
> Ken suggested freeze-concentration and fortification of meads with
> distilled spirits to obtain high-alcohol beverages.
> Freeze-concentration is illegal, as it is considered the same as
This statement is wrong. It is not considered the same as
distillation. If you have proof that it is illegal, please
provide citations.
This topic has been discussed ad infinitum on the various
brewing lists on through the ages.The best "proof" I saw
that is is legal is from Dennis Davison's eisbock article
in Zymurgy (winter 1995), where Dennis wrote that freezing
beer or wine and removing the non-alcoholic ice crystals
that form is not legally distillation but "fractional
crystallisation", and is perfectly legal. As I remember
it, Dennis even provided the BATF agent-name and telephone
number that he contacted to get his determination.
> distillation. Fortification is also illegal for the home winemaker,
> even when tax-paid spirits are used. This makes no sense at all.
I certainly agree with your last sentence!
I cannot buy a bottle of Everclear and add it to a
bottle of my own mead? Next you'll be telling me that
I can't buy a bottle of rum and fortify my bottle of
Coca-Cola! Your statement is wrong on it's face.
Chuck
------------------------------
Subject: Fortification of Mead...
From: Joe Kaufman <sutekh137@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 07:55:09 -0700 (PDT)
Steve Daughhetee <sdd6@cornell.edu> wrote on Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:20:05 -0400:
>Ken suggested freeze-concentration and fortification of meads with
>distilled spirits to obtain high-alcohol beverages.
>Freeze-concentration is illegal, as it is considered the same as
>distillation. Fortification is also illegal for the home winemaker,
>even when tax-paid spirits are used. This makes no sense at all.
>Lobby you congressman to liberate the amateur winemaker from these
>absurd restrictions.
Absurd restrictions indeed! Are you sure about the fortification issue (do
you know of any links I can read up on?) How can fortifying mead with
Everclear be any more illegal than making punch by combining Hawaiian Punch,
Sprite, and Everclear? Fortification is simply mixing, is it not? I would
hate to be arrested for mixing myself up a screwdriver... Maybe we are
differeing in our definition of "fortification"? I have added Everclear to
about 3 gallons of mead before mainly to kill off the yeast. Made a very
tasty pyment with a nifty 19% alcohol!
Can you clarify you views/definitions (or what you have heard) concerning
fortification?
Thanks!
Joe Kaufman
------------------------------
Subject: MLD #853, Mead Fortification
From: "jerry bewrry" <memnosine@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:52:05 -0600
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #853, 13 June 2001
From: Steve Daughhetee <sdd6@cornell.edu>
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 01:20:05 -0400
Steve wrote:
>Ken suggested freeze-concentration and fortification of meads with
>distilled spirits to obtain high-alcohol beverages.
>Freeze-concentration is illegal, as it is considered the same as
>distillation.
Yes, this seems to be so. Making applejack by freeze concentration, while
effective, is frowned upon by the ATF.
>Fortification is also illegal for the home winemaker,
>even when tax-paid spirits are used.
This really surprises me; can anyone verify this? I have often used
Everclear -hypothetically- to ensure the end of fermentation in sherries.
Would this mean that a mixed drink, using purchased spirits and homemade
vermouth, is illegal? Sounds flaky. But the whole set of government
regulations in this area is flaky, isn't it. For how long was it legal to
make wine but not beer? Ten or fifteen years, at least here in Colorado.
All the wine supply shops used to sell grain, malt, and hops for "food
purposes only."
>This makes no sense at all.
You've got that right!
>Lobby you congressman to liberate the amateur winemaker from these
>absurd restrictions.
Amen to that.
>Steve Daughhetee
>Trumansburg, New York
Jerry Berry, Aurora, Colorado
------------------------------
Subject: Potassium Sorbate
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:20:48 -0500
Howdy,
How effective is potassium sorbate in preventing re-fermentation? Here's
the scenario:
My father-in-law is a beekeeper. Last year he wanted some beer to drink
while taking care of the honey harvest. Due to a couple of circumstances,
he had his "driver" show up a week before I had the beer made. Therefore,
no beer was available. This year I'm trying to plan ahead.
I'm planning to make a cherry hydromel. Light enough to be drinkable
fast....but it'll still have plenty of honey character...this I can
do. However, I'd like a touch of residual sweetness, so I was thinking of
fermenting the hydromel then adding sorbate and some additional honey and
force carbonating. Will this be safe for a month or so (if it lasts that
long)? I suppose if they are tapping it fairly regularly it shouldn't be
too big a deal, but I don't want to make something that continues to
ferment to the point that it overpressurizes the keg.
Again, I suppose that if they drink a little at a time, they'll be
constantly bleeding the keg. Any thoughts appreciated.
nathan in madison, wi
------------------------------
Subject: freeze-concentration legality (in US)
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:52:13 -0600 (MDT)
The matter of whether it is legal to concentrate an alcoholic beverage by
freezing (thus removing ice and leaving a more concentrated mead), in US law,
is hopelessly complicated by the fact (illustrated by conflicting postings
here) that our law quite clearly says one thing but our BATF (government
agency tasked with enforcing laws on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms--YOU
figure that out, and if you can, let us know!) has interpreted that law to
say something quite different. 27 CFR 24 (the wine regulations) go on for
most of a hundred pages, but if you dig around I believe you'll find that
concentration beyond fermentation is said to be prohibited. I wish I could
quote chapter and verse. However, you are allowed to produce wine of up to
24% alcohol (v/v) by fermentation! But there is this BATF opinion that
several folks have cited indicating that freeze-concentration is OK.
I hope the folks debating this will cite their sources so we can compare.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #855
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