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Mead Lovers Digest #0792
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #792, 24 February 2000
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #792 24 February 2000
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Braggot (Dave Polaschek)
Re: Artificial corks (Dave Polaschek)
carboys (John Miley)
the boiling issue (Warren Place)
boils vs sulfite and corks ("Micah Millspaw")
Gordon's inquiry about a book on beekeeping ("Stevenson, Randall")
submission (Paul & Lisa)
mead (CedarLedgeApiary@cs.com)
Braggot (Ted McIrvine)
Re: MLD 791 Good Beekeeping Books? (Dan McFeeley)
Sparkling Mead Question ("Eric Bonney")
Hibiscus and orange peel (Nathan Kanous)
Boiling vs flavor ("Robert Goulding")
Really Silly Question (Lars Hedbor)
"Meading by the Stars" (Charlie Moody)
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #791, 19 February 2000 ("Swintosky, Michael D.")
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #791, 19 February 2000 ("Swintosky, Michael D.")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Braggot
From: Dave Polaschek <davep@davespicks.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:20:09 -0600
BillPierce@aol.com wrote:
>I'd be grateful for any insight from those who have experience with braggot,
>including any proven recipes.
I've made braggot in two different ways.
The first was to chuck all the fermentables into the batch together. I
did a variation on Papazian's barkshack ginger mead which was a very nice
summer drink one time. I've also done darker beers with dark flavorful
honey and gotten potent winter ales.
I also made a braggot by making a beer and then adding in honey to feed
the fermentation as things progressed. This ended up being a very strong
drink (think barley-wine strength), which had an anise aroma that I think
came from the honey, but I've never explained it to my own satisfaction.
The recipe is at
<http://www.best.com/~davep/mme/recipes/davebracket.html>.
As for the style being wide open, that's part of the fun. Two people can
make braggots and come up with completely different drinks, depending on
their inclinations. Try something similar to beer styles you like one
time. Try something closer to your favorite mead another. Try making it
sparkling or still (you can even split a batch to be able to do a
comparison). Try hopped vs. a gruit for bittering. I haven't done as much
experimentation as I'd like to with braggots, since there just aren't
enough hours in the day.
Hope this helps.
- -DaveP
Dave Polaschek - Polaschek Computing, Inc. - davep@best.com
PGP key and other spiffy things at <http://www.best.com/~davep/>
Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important
that you do it. - Mahatma Gandhi
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Artificial corks
From: Dave Polaschek <davep@davespicks.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:23:16 -0600
Kristine Adam <kristine@uniserve.com> wrote:
>Has anyone out there tried the new artificial corks? They are supposed to
>better protect one's wine/mead from spoilage, but I haven't yet tried them
>myself.
I've had a number of these in commercial wines I've bought. They're
pretty slick. They don't allow the wine to breathe as much as a
traditional cork does, but for mead, I think that would actually be an
advantage.
I'll probably get around to trying them soon, but I've been making
sparkling meads more recently, so I'm capping instead of corking at the
moment.
- -DaveP
Dave Polaschek - Polaschek Computing, Inc. - davep@best.com
PGP key and other spiffy things at <http://www.best.com/~davep/>
"I don't want parole; I'm too busy working on my web site."
- Charles Manson, 3/27/97
------------------------------
Subject: carboys
From: jlmiley@webtv.net (John Miley)
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:07:53 -0600 (CST)
Old World Pottery, in Foley , AL, had five gallon carboys for $9.95
ea..before Christmas.
Don`t know if Old World is a national chain or not, you might try
local stores of that nature.
miley
------------------------------
Subject: the boiling issue
From: Warren Place <wrplace@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:38:15 -0800 (PST)
On 19 Feb 2000 mead-request@talisman.com wrote:
> I'm thinking of doing a 4 way split batch - Stir & mix honey with nothing but
> pitching alot of yest / Sulfiting / Pasteurization steep at 160 / quick boil
> & chill.
> Any thoughts or comments?
> Bob Grossman 2 time AHA BarleyWine Gold winner 1 Silver Award for Mead
Bob,
You might want to boil the water for all of the batches you make.
Even if you don't have chlorine to drive off, boiling will kill most
bacteria in the water and lower the chance of infection. I boil the water
for about 15 min with my chiller in the pot (to sterilize it) and usually
add honey when the water is about 170-180F, stir till dissolved, wait a
couple minutes, and then run the chiller full blast while stirring the
must. Cools really quick and doubt I lose much aroma. I have sulphited
musts before, but even then I boil the water and let it cool (covered,
overnight) before adding the honey and sulphite. About th only thing lost
is the aroma of the water and around here that isn't a bad thing!
Warren Place
------------------------------
Subject: boils vs sulfite and corks
From: "Micah Millspaw" <MMillspa@SILGANMFG.COM>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 07:06:54 -0600
>Subject: The Boiling Issue =21=21
>From: JazzboBob=40aol.com=20
>Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:06:35 EST
> Subject: Boiling vs Pasteurization & Sulfiting or doing nothing
>Has anyone done a side by side comparison of Meadmaking by the 4 proposed
>methods? I=27ve read many comments about boiling vs a hot 160 degree steep to
>pasteurize - sulfiting or not sulfiting - and the occasional do nothing but
>throw in lots of yeast.
>It seems to me that alot of these different brewing techniques stem from
>meadmakers that come from 2 backgrouds; winemakers and beerbrewers.
>The winemakers are used to sulfiting grape and fruit musts and do not have
>the experience and equipment (pots/burners/chillers) to do a boil. It may
>seem natural to treat diluted honey in the same manner as wine.
>The beer brewers are used to boiling wort to make beer so it seems a natuaral
>practice to bring the honey up to a boil. They might not be familiar with
>sulfiting or understand it.
>Bob Grossman
First, I would agree with Bob=27s observation about the reasons for differing
methodology between wine a beer makers. Having come from a family of
ameteur wine and mead makers ( and having gone into beer making on my
own) when it was discovered that I have been making meads via boiling
the dilute honey, it was declared heresy. I was told that my meads would
never be a flavourful as they could be, because of the boiling. Over many
years of mead making I have not been able to determine that either boiling
or sulfiting is sufficeint to make or break a mead.
As for success in competitions, I have only competed meads that were heated
to a boil (briefly), and I have managed to win the occasional ribbon or
mazer cup from time to time.
My 2 cents on corks. The wine industry has been having a problem with =27cork
taint=27 for some time. A lot of sorting has been going on to keep the
tainted corks out of the commercial wineries. I suppose that it is
possible for the reject corks to find their way into the hobby end of the
bussiness, this could lead to some definitely off -cork related flavours
in meads.
The artifical corks are gaining rapid acceptance with the commercial wine
industry because of consistency and low risk of cork related flavour defects.
I like them because they are easier to sanitize and insert than real
corks.
Micah Millspaw
------------------------------
Subject: Gordon's inquiry about a book on beekeeping
From: "Stevenson, Randall" <rstevenson@LDI.STATE.LA.US>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:59:35 -0600
The "bible" of beekeeping is a book called "The Hive and the Honeybee". It
should have everything you will need to know and more about beekeeping. It
was recommended to me by a professional beekeeper, and I would recommend it
to anyone interested in beekeeping.
Randall
------------------------------
Subject: submission
From: Paul & Lisa <pippi@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:12:29 -0500
Greetings,
I'm about to make my third batch of mead
and I am wondering about the particular
recipe that we are going to use.
It's a citrus mead that (according to the recipe)
does not take very long to
ferment or age
The question I have is with the procedure:
"....Let it cool naturally about 3/4 hour, remove ginger
and orange peel, put in carboy to cool, add yeast
and let it go for three to six weeks (usually let it go
till it starts to clear). Bottle, let sit for
another week or two (to charge the
bottles) and then chill and serve"
the recipe does not call for extra sugar
to make it a sparkling mead. Is this
recipe actually telling me to bottle before
it's done fermenting? and is that why
it says to chill and serve a week or two
after bottling, so that it doesn't explode
the bottles in three weeks?
Any help at all would be very appriciated! Although
I'm not totally opposed to
drinking 5 gallons of mead inside of a week,
we're making this mead for an event in
August and I'd like to save it..
Thanks,
Paul Hudert
------------------------------
Subject: mead
From: CedarLedgeApiary@cs.com
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:56:45 EST
hello, i'm writing to you ask for a little information on making mead.
we have about 3lbs. of poison ivy honey, i would like to make a mead with
it.
is it too dark, should i sweeten it with some other honey. if you have any
suggestions i would love to hear from you i need the help.
thank you for your time,
chris jerome
(cedar ledge apiary)
------------------------------
Subject: Braggot
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:25:51 -0800
My last braggot was basically my Belgian Trippel recipe with 5 lbs of
honey substituted for 1/2 kilo of Candi Sugar. I used about 12 lbs of
DWC Belgian Pils Malt, mashing at 145 for 2 hours and hopping heavily
for the style with 1 oz of a medium alpha bittering hop (I don't
remember whether it was Perle or Northern Brewer) and 1/2 oz each of
Goldings, Saaz, and Hallertauer. I added 5 gallons of honey as I turned
off the heat along with 1/2 oz of cascade and 1 tsp of dried orange
peel. My starting gravity was 115, and the braggot finished around 20.
This recipe is a touch darker than 4 SRM.
Some tasters thought that the honey slightly overbalanced the beer,
which surprised me because honey normally ferments much more completely
than beer.
I can't give you specifics on how to hit a target OG of 80, which will
vary depending on your honey and your extraction from grain. I suspect
that 9-10 pounds of (pale or pils) grain and 2 pounds of honey would put
you in the ballpark for color and gravity while balancing the malt and
honey flavor.
Cheers
Ted in NY
- --
Dr. Ted McIrvine McIrvine@Ix.Netcom.Com
College of Staten Island/CUNY
"Music is the hidden arithmetical exercise of a mind unconscious that is
calculating."
Gottfried Leibniz, quoted in Lorenz Mizler's Musikalische Bibliothek
> From: BillPierce@aol.com
>
> I have a number of basic questions concerning braggot, including typical
> starting and finishing gravities, grain bill, percentage of fermentables from
> honey, hopping schedules, etc. What I have in mind would have a starting
> gravity of about 1.080, a finishing gravity of about 1.010, about 15 IBUs of
> bittering and a color of about 4 SRM. It would be sparkling and relatively
> well carbonated, with a noticeable head and recognizable as both a malt and
> honey beverage.
>
> I'd be grateful for any insight from those who have experience with braggot,
> including any proven recipes.
>
> - -- Bill Pierce
> Cellar Door Homebrewery
> Des Moines, IA
>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: MLD 791 Good Beekeeping Books?
From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:07:02 -0600
>For quite some time I have been mulling over beekeeping as an additional
>hobby. I have done some cursory research but the majority of books I have
>been able to locate are stuffy academic tomes which have provided little in
>the way of helpful how-to advice.
>
>Ideally, I would like a simple but acurate book which lays out beekeeping
>in the hobby context (as opposed to commercial). Does anyone have any
>recomendations?
Here are two good books:
The ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture The Hive and the Honey Bee
Roger Morse Hamilton, Illinois: Dadant & Sons,
Medina, Ohio: A. I. Root Company, 1992. ISBN 0-915698-09-9
1990. ISBN 0-936028-01-7
You can also try Larry Connor of Wicwas Press for an extensive list
of titles on beekeeping and related subjects. Write for a catalogue
at this address:
Beekeeping Education Service
Wicwas Press
Larry Connor, Ph.D., Owner
P.O. Box 817E
Cheshire CT 06410-0817
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: Sparkling Mead Question
From: "Eric Bonney" <ebonney@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 19:31:01 -0500
I posted a few months ago on my first attempt at mead. It was a blueberry
melomel that I bottled around Dec. 18th or so in 1 litter E-Z Caps bottles.
My original plan was to let it sit until April 15th (end of tax season :) )
and then try a bottle at the party. Well my impatience got the best of me
and I opened up a bottle this evening. First things first, it taste
fantastic! I am surprised that it taste so good so soon. I hope I can keep
some around long enough to let it age.
My question is this. When I opened the bottle I wanted to see if I had
gotten any carbonation yet. So I got the kids and girlfriend quite to
listen for the tell tale phssssst. When to my surprise when I opened the
bottle I got not just a phssst, but a MAJOR pop! I am concerned that I may
have some time bombs in my closet. Could I move the case outside to my
storage closet since it is still cool here in OH? What would the temp.
swings from around 10 - 20 degrees F at night to 60 - 70 degrees during the
day do to the flavor at this point?
Thanks for any help or ideas anyone can provide.
- -Eric
Prejudice is a learned trait, what are YOU teaching your children?!?!
------------------------------
Subject: Hibiscus and orange peel
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous@pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:48:39 -0600
Hi All.
My "Wout's OJ Melomel" is still fermenting in secondary. I moved it
upstairs because I thought the 62 deg F temp of the basement could slow the
yeast and inhibit complete attenuation leaving potential for a sparkling
mead in the bottle. That wouldn't bother me much, but I just wanted to let
it warm a bit and do as much as it could without handicap. Anyhow...
A couple of new events recently. My father-in-law is giving me 60 lbs of
honey (don't know how he'll get that on the plane....oh well) so I can make
some mead. My wife recently had a baby (Lydia Christine...born on
Valentines day). While she was in the hospital, I took full advantage of
the kitchen on the obstetrics floor and I bumped into a tea I tried. It
included, among other things, hibiscus and orange peel. I thought this
combination might make for a good mead.
I made a small batch of hibiscus mead a year or so ago, but in the process
it got oxidized and I dumped it. I don't like working with those small
batches. Anyhow, I'm thinking of using some hibiscus and orange peel and
was wondering if anyone has experience using dried orange peel in mead? I
can get some fresh, but it could be easier to use dried peels from Penzey's
(www.penzeys.com) if they would taste okay. Any experiences with using
dried orange peel? TIA
BTW, I have no affiliation with Penzey's other than I am a VERY satisfied
customer.
nathan in madison, wi
------------------------------
Subject: Boiling vs flavor
From: "Robert Goulding" <sanctuary@dtgnet.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:32:34 -0700
Subject: The Boiling Issue !!
From: JazzboBob@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:06:35 EST
Now we have a lot of rhetoric being kicked around about boiling being
detrimental to the honey aroma and I'm not sure who's saying it based it upon
actual experience and tasting. I suspect that alot of the lost aromatics in
boiling come from folks that take a long time to heat and cool the honey
must. I have a big burner, pot, and wort chiller that drops the boil very
quickly (5 min from boil to 160)
OK, here's my 2 cents worth again. I believe in pasteurization (but not in
boiling to achieve it). I have boiled and I have steeped. I use as much as
I can get of some very good, cold filtered, clover honey from a local
apiarist. I have both boiled all of my must together and have boiled just
the water with flavorings and added the honey (after I turned the fire off!)
and the taste difference is noticeable to me. I have also made beer both
boiling the honey with the malt and hops and adding the honey after the
boil. Adding after the boil gives sufficient pasteurization (temp/t). I do
not have a wort chiller in operation although I do use a water bath to cool.
I do not have the fast reduction in temperature you do. All I can say is
that the longer I boil the honey the less good it tastes and I have done
substantial comparisons. My honey is truly exceptional in flavor, although
the flavor, being exquisite, is also somewhat ephemeral. The mouth-feel is
also quite different when it is boiled rather than minimum pasteurization
applied. So, bringing to a boil and rapidly cooling may work very well. I
am talking about how many recipes call for boiling the honey and skimming
the scum off and continuing to boil until the scum stops rising to the top.
In general, my position is that the longer the honey is kept at high or
boiling temperatures the less good it will taste. Pasteurization being
sufficient to kill pathogens, that is as far as I go anymore. I have tubing
for a wort/must chiller that I am planning on getting into operation soon.
Many people do not even pasteurize honey when they make Mead. I lost a 10
gallon batch of Mead once. I do not want that to ever happen again. The
time it takes to mix or stir honey into solution (in water or wort that was
boiling just before putting the honey in) is sufficient for pasteurization.
So, I would suggest that for the best flavor possible from whatever honey
you are using, if you heat at all, heat for the least amount of time that
you can (at the lowest temperatures that you can and still achieve
pasteurization). Fast cooling is a plus in my book. I just do not think it
necessary to boil for long periods of time. It has been my experience from
making between 50- 75 batches of Mead (and beer with honey) that the flavor
and mouth-feel of the finished product goes down in conjunction with the
amount of time and higher temperature used on the honey. By all means, boil
and skim scum or bring to a boil and cool or just heat enough to pasteurize
or do not heat at all. We all have different means of brewing and different
pocketbook sizes and different views on what is necessary. I just want
people to have information. The more we know, the better we can make our
products. I have only been doing this for a couple of years and am still
ignorant of many things. I recently read the analysis of honey that is in
the MLD archives and found something out that corrected a long time
misconception I had. I thought that acid blend was used to alter the PH
balance to more acid so that the yeast would grow better. I thought that
honey was on the more base end of the PH scale. I was wrong according to
the analysis. Acid blend is used to counteract the sweetness of the honey,
it is already acid enough for the yeasty beasties. So, live and learn. I
welcome all comments, either through MLD or to my e-mail address below.
Anyone wanting the Dr. Kings Mead recipe from the 1600's please let me know
and I will send it to you as soon as I have finished my final exams this
quarter. Thank you all. I appreciate this digest very much and I have
learned a lot here.
Happy brewing!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. I would appreciate any braggot recipes anyone has, I have just added
honey to worts for various beers without even knowing that there was such a
term as "braggot". I have one 20lb., 5 gallon batch going that is 10 pounds
of light malt extract and 10 pounds of clover honey. (No other ingredients)
I made it this past New Years Eve for a party I am planning on having this
coming New Years Eve. I figure it should be aged enough by then. The
flavor when I racked it the second time was extraordinary, it is going to be
very hard to leave it alone until the new millennium begins. It tastes a
lot like a Blond Doppelbach a member of my Homebrew Club made last year.
Thanks again.
Robert Goulding
Head Rooster
Robert's Roost
sanctuary@rapidnet.com
http://w1.dtgnet.com/robertsroost/
625 South Street
Rapid City, South Dakota
57701-3633
605-341-3434
605-348-7799
------------------------------
Subject: Really Silly Question
From: Lars Hedbor <lhedbor@epicor.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:10:18 -0800
I know that there's been some discussion of commercial meads in the last few
weeks, and I've been searching for some time for something comparable to my
own (very basic, Feinstein "Quickie Mead" recipe) sparkling metheglyn.
After a particularly horrid experience last night with a mead whose producer
will remain unnamed, I was forced to wonder... why doesn't anyone bottle a
decent commercial mead? How hard is it to navigate the regulatory maze?
So, my Really Silly Question is this: Has anyone on the list tried going
this route? Do any of you commercially produce meads? Am I crazy for even
fiddling with the concept, with probably fewer than ten batches of mead
(figuratively... ) under my belt?
- - Lars
Oregon City, Oregon
http://www.concentric.net/~Lhedbor/
lars@hedbor.org
------------------------------
Subject: "Meading by the Stars"
From: Charlie Moody <chmood@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:12:08 -0500
Regarding the question of a 'farmers-almanac' approach to meading:
Anyone who would like to pursue that thread, or perhaps pick up
others like it, can send mail to gordian-list@mindspring.com.
- --
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #791, 19 February 2000
From: "Swintosky, Michael D." <Swintosk@timken.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:35:09 -0500
VIZECKY asked for recommendations for beekeeping books for beginners.
Try http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Beekeeping/
<http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Beekeeping/> and
http://www.beesource.com <http://www.beesource.com/> . They've both listed
references in the past.
As for specific recommendations, A.I. Root, Kelley's and Dadant all off
beginners books (under $10). I think the titles for two of those small
books are "Starting Right with Bees" and "First Lessons in Beekeeping".
Mid-priced is Richard Bonney's "Hive Management" (~$16). Higher priced is
The Beekeeper's Handbook by Sammataro and ? (~$30). There are also several
nice books by Richard Taylor if you like his style of writing. Most of
these you can find at your local library, or obtain via interlibrary loan.
Good Luck!
Mike Swintosky
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #791, 19 February 2000
From: "Swintosky, Michael D." <Swintosk@timken.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:43:51 -0500
Subject: The Boiling Issue !!
From: JazzboBob@aol.com <mailto:JazzboBob@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:06:35 EST
JazzboBob asks about boiling honey. I can't comment on that from
experience, but I wonder if a short boil does any more damage than the
fermentation process itself. You blow off quite a bit of the aroma with the
CO2. But then there are those who say that even exposure to air (as happens
when extracting honey from the comb) is damaging to the flavor of honey.
The "ultimate" in honey flavor is thus found in comb honey (honey still in
the bees' original packaging). Just some rambling thoughts, but I'd still
be interested in knowing how much aroma you can loose in the fermentation
process vs a short boil as described by JazzboBob.
Mike Swintosky
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #792
*******************************
