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Mead Lovers Digest #0813
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #813, 24 July 2000
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #813 24 July 2000
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
coffee mead (joel tracy)
"posting" (joel tracy)
Gooseberry meads ? ("John P . Looney")
Re: MLD 810 (Dan McFeeley)
MLD ("Matt Maples")
Man, I love this hobby!!! ("Philip J Wilcox")
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #812, 12 July 2000 ("Long, Karl")
Re: posting ("Matt Maples")
Dissolved solids ("Steve Gaskin")
Randy's stuck mead (Stephen Murphrey)
Re: "must" bee a sign (Dave Polaschek)
NOTE: Digest only appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead, or
via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu in pub/clubs/homebrew/mead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: coffee mead
From: joel tracy <demaigne@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
Boy, I wish I'd had that resource on coffee mead when
I tried mine. I asked a question several months ago
about what *can't* be used in mead, since it seems
just about anything can. I asked if anyone had ever,
or had an opinions on, using coffee beans (this is how
I went, instead of making a pot of coffee). Well, I
went ahead anyway, adding the beans to the must as it
boiled, and leaving them in for the primary ferment.
Last racking, it smelled wonderful...
If anyone is interested, I'll post results.
deMaigne
------------------------------
Subject: "posting"
From: joel tracy <demaigne@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:10:51 -0700 (PDT)
Mr. Dickeson asks several questions about meadmaking.
Chances are, Matt, when you signed up that Mr. Dunn
sent you the wonderful introductory material in the
canned "welcome" message. Some of your questions are
answered there--racking specifically. One thing
you'll notice here is that everyone voices her/his
opinion, and very rarely, if ever, does anyone come
out and say, "I'm right; you're wrong." Understand
that some people may contest information that Mr. Dunn
has in the introductory material, because mead making
is as much an art, wherein the artist's personal
expressions are intrinsic, as sculpture, composing, or
fly fishing. There are some Truths, but many things
just depend. Mr. Dunn's information is
extraordinarily reliable, so it's the best place to
start.
The ratios of honey to water took me one screw up to
figure out (sorry--never very good in math or
sciences). I only make one galloners now, so it's
easy for me, and amounts of honey are varied to see
how they will interact with other sugars or
ingredients. The basic "rule" of 2-3 pounds of honey
per gallon of mead should get you started--two pounds
for drier meads; three pounds for sweeter. I don't
measure out my water ahead of time. If I must (no pun
intended), then I'll start with half a gallon of water
and dissolve my honey/sugars and other goodies. Then,
when I pitch my starter, I'll raise the level to just
under a gallon (remember, on the primary ferment,
you'll need room for active fermentation). That way,
I don't have to know how to convert (if you have to at
all) liquid pounds to cups... something like that.
I'll leave the melomels to others--mels and I don't
get along so well.
Best time to bottle? This is probably addressed in
Dick's introduction too, but this varies also. I've
read several recipes where it just says, "Bottle when
clear." Other recipes discuss using camden tablets or
strong liquor to stop fermentation. You will read in
this digest about stuck fermentations and unending
fermentations. The best idea is probably to stick
with hydrometer readings and check your numbers. I've
been lucky with stuff bottled too soon--just unseemly
sediment; no bottle grenades. It can get hairy,
though.
Hope this helps, and sorry so long.
deMaigne
------------------------------
Subject: Gooseberry meads ?
From: "John P . Looney" <valen@tuatha.org>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:59:56 +0100
I've come into a lot of gooseberries, and want to make real use of them!
I was wondering:
Does anyone think that gooseberries can make a good mead ?
Is there a searchable archive (bar downloading it all, and grepping it
myself) of this list (so I could find old ones) ?
Kate
- --
The words of the unwary are apt to cause needless pain and bloody violence.
- Zen Master Greg
------------------------------
Subject: Re: MLD 810
From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:02:37 -0500
On Sun, 18 Jun 2000, in MLD 810, Eric Brown wrote:
>I'm a firm believer in the potential beauty of varietal honey, and my aim is
>to express that beauty in my mead in as pure a form as possible. Any
>suggestions on how to really display the varietal character of the honey?
>
> Does anyone have experience using bee pollen as a yeast nutrient? I've
> heard talk of it, but that's all. Also, what are the most natural means
>of producing a clear mead?
This probably a simplistic way of responding to the first question, but
the best way to display the varietal character of the honey is to first
make a good mead. After that, everything else should take care of itself.
Chuck has already given some good pointers on this in the last MLD.
Robert Berthold of Delaware Valley College did some experimenting with
the use of bee pollen as a substitute for chemical additives. In the
Fall 1990 issue of _The Meadmaker's Journal_ (publication of the former
American Mead Association, no longer in print) he writes that he got good
results using 5 tablespoons of bee pollen per gallon honey must. One of
his meads made using this method placed second in the 1988 Eastern
Apicultural Society competition, judged by Roger Morse at that time.
Bee pollen is available through beekeeping supply sources, but you might
want to check with your local beekeeeper first to see if bee pollen is
more readily available in your area.
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: MLD
From: "Matt Maples" <matt_lists@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:37:04 -0700
You are on the right track. There is nothing wrong with doing low grav mead
with ale yeast. In fact they tend to take much less time to age and have a
softer finish to them. I have made plenty in my time and have had very good
results (as long as I stay away from White Labs but that's another story). I
think 1056 is a good choice, it has a clean flavor profile, has decent
alcohol tolerance and good flocculation.
If I was you I would shoot for a little higher alcohol then the 1.052 will
give you. You want it to be stable just in case some of it last for more
than a year. Wyeast 1056 will do 10% I wouldn't try and age anything with
less than 8% for too long. Not that it is necessarily going to be a problem
but why take the chance.
I have also noticed that the attenuation scores for the yeast don't really
apply to fermenting honey. I have had many varieties drop to 1.000 thus
taking the apparent attenuation to 100%. I think it has to do with the fact
that there are lower proteins and lower "higher sugars" in mead.
As for the residual beer in the carboy, well I think it could only help. As
long as you are doing a mead with hops in it any residual hops left in the
carboy from the beer won't be a prob. If you were going to do a plain mead I
would suggest a new batch of yeast.
I am currently playing with different beer yeasts in mead. I have a batch of
plain mead with a wyeat whenstephaner yeast. It dropped down to 0.998 is
rather tart but didn't get any of the banana/clove spiciness I was hoping
for. My next batch is going to use a Belgian strong with hopes of getting
that complex fruitiness that comes with that. After that maybe a Lambic. I
think a Guezee Mead would be fun to try:-)) (a liitle wheat a little malt
and a lot of honey and a lot of time)
Don't be afraid to use your beer knowledge to make mead (just don't boil the
honey :-)). The science of making beer may be different than that of mead
but the art of brewing is the same. I say go for it and have a good time.
Matt Maples
May mead regain its rightful place as the beverage of gods and kings
------------------------------
Subject: Man, I love this hobby!!!
From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox@cmsenergy.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 15:34:07 -0400
All,
A special toast to Dan McFeeley for his snynopsis of Roger Morse's work. A
second toast to Roger Morse and Bill Pfeiffer, Two of our greatest Meadmakers,
who seemingly chose to make their trip to Valhalla together as we lost them both
within days of each other. Wassial!
- -----
Aaron,
We just had our mead meeting--"The Meading" on tuesday. Though nobody had a
hydormel (low gravity mead) we did talk about it. Hops seem to be popular in
these meads. I have one going right now, it was an accident. I had honey samples
from an Argintine honey exporter who was working with our Economic Development
group to start exporting to Michigan. It didn't work out, an after a while the
20 or so 2-4oz. samples made it to my office. I tried to do the math, and even
used a scale, but I still had more water than I needed....oh well. I'm calling
it Argentine Sunrise. That was over a year ago, so I should probubly bottle that
some day soon eh?
The same meader who likes hops in his mead, had a traditional and a sack mead
with him. Both were Clover honey fermented with a lager yeast. Both were
excellent. The traditional was a sweet sparkling and scored slightly higher than
the dry still Sack mead. Wyeast 1056 is a good choice, But the Pale ale might
not of been--depends on how much pale ale flavor you want knocking around in
your mead i guess. Is the Beer a nutrient? Not really, but the malt extract is.
Up to a pound in a 5 gal batch is still not noticeable according to most
Michigan meaders I have talked with. Is it a concern with pitching a hydormel on
a 2ndary yeast cake. Nope. Plenty of Healty Happy yeast there to do the job I
would think.
- ---
Holly,
Honey-only and "no" chemicals in the same sentence only spell problems to me. I
had a long conversation with Clayton Cone at the first MCAB 2 years ago about
meads, mead yeasts, and fermentation. Honey has very little to offer in the way
of nutrients. Fermentations that take a long time are because the yeast is
stressed. Stressed yeast produce bad by-products that more often than not taste
and smell horrific. Fermaid was developed by Clayton and others at Lallemand to
assist brewers and vintnors with making yeast happy. It works. For more visit,
http://www.lallemand.com/lalvin/FermaidWine.htm. His favorite of the mass
produced yeasts for Meads was from the Cote de Rhones area of france (D-47), but
he had a few "rarely available" others that he liked also. (Jethro-if your
listening and would like to thank me for the above plug, you could ask Clayton
what he thinks about Oxygenating Meads. Vintnors don't because the grapes have
plenty of disolved O2 in them alreay. But beer and mead do not. Brewers
oxygenate brewers yeast. Should we be oxygenating our wine yeasts? or should we
leave that to Saccaromyces cerevisiae?)
For a gallon of simple mead: Part "A" A quart of honey weighs 3 lbs and has "96"
points of gravity when diluted up to a final volume of one gallon. Boil a half
gallon of water. Take it off the heat and add 2/3 of a quart (2 lbs of honey to
it. Stir to disolve. Cover the pot place in an ice bath and chill down 70F. Add
a half pack of rehydrated Danstar Windsor yeast (2.5 g) and less than half of
that amount (1 g, eyeball it) of fermaid. Part "B" Give it a few weeks time,
sample it a week after you think its done fermenting. If it is dry, add 3/4 cup
of the remaining honey (10-11oz) stir gently (don't airate) with a sanitized
spoon till blended and wait another week or so then repeat part "B" till it
comes out sweet. By using a low attenuating beer yeast you should be able to do
this only once or twice. Many more times and you will be creating a very high
alchol mead. Notice I didnt say what kind of honey? The recipe works for all of
them. The more character the honey has the more the mead will have. Its entirely
up to you. Star Thistle would be very light, Buckwheat would be very heavy and
dark. Enjoy.
- ----
Eileen,
A Rhodomel is a Rosepedal mead. Four 2oz bottles? wow, thats alot in my mind. If
they are anything like the candy flavorings then you might have over done it.
But perhaps not. Don't get rid of it if it is too much. Bottle it and use it for
blending for the next 10 years...
- ----
Jason,
It could be too, much. Better to start low and add later. Maybe try 10 lbs of
honey to start with and add more a month or so down the line...
- ----
Matt,
A five gallon batch infers a finished product of 5 gallons to me. SoI start with
a gallon of honey and add 4 gallons of water or cider or maple sap or
whatever...
Racking: In my current view, it depends on the yeast. Beer yeast doesn't like
prolonged exposure to alcohol. So at some point after your fermentation is
complete and not necessarily before its done clearing you can rack it. I keg it,
and bottle out of the keg. One Racking (unless I do a fruit addition) and I am
done.
Reclaiming Fruit. My first and only attempt failed--to oxidixed. So now I cook
with it...Sauces for cakes or my favorite, 2 cups berry slush (no pits), 3 cups
ice cream in the blender, a little milk if you have too. mMMM Fruit Mead
Smoothies the adult summer treat!!!
Bottling: Wait as long as you can possibly stand it. Mead ages better in bulk.
This is how double digit carboy collections become possible...or kegs in my
case...
Phil Wilcox
Bumblefrog Meadmaker
"Man, I love this hobby!!!!!!!"--Bill Pfeiffer
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #812, 12 July 2000
From: "Long, Karl" <klong@itc.nrcs.usda.gov>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 13:53:59 -0600
> From: Matthew Dickeson <dameadmaker@excite.com>
> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:34:50 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Hello all,
Hello Matthew,
> I've never been clear about how you start a mead. Recipes call for a
> certain amount of pounds of honey per gallon of water, and
> that's all fine
> and good...but they also talk about making a certain size
> batch of mead, and
> the numbers don't always add up.
In most cases, the ratio is honey to final volume. For 2#/gallon, mix 2# of
honey with enough water to disolve it. Then add enough water to make one
gallon. You will be using a bit more than 3 quarts of water to get to one
gallon total.
>
> I've read several references so far about racking mead...some
> say to rack it
> in two weeks, some say leave it alone for a month or two months after
> pitching before even looking at it!
Sorry, I don't have a direct answer here, but I'll explain the issue. How
often to rack is a compromise between two competing concerns (among others,
I'm sure).
On the one hand, letting the must/mead sit on the lees (old yeast which has
settled out) for a long time can cause off tastes in your final mead. This
would suggest racking often.
On the other hand, every time you rack, you loose some mead and you increase
the chances of oxidation which can harm the flavor of your mead.
I would not wait a month or two before looking because, if you do everything
right, the mead could be completely fermented in as little as two weeks. It
usually takes longer, but it would help your mead if it were done in, say,
four weeks and your left it sitting on the lees for another 4 weeks or more.
Personally, I prefer to rack after a week or so, and then whenever there is
a significant buildup of lees .
> How often should I test the SG, considering
> I don't know
> what the OG was (I started before I had my
> hydrometer...shipping problems)?
You can estimate the starting gravity of the must. The average honey weighs
about 11.75 lbs/gallon and has a specific gravity of 1.41.
Convert the weight of honey used to volume
V (gallons) = lbs of honey / 11.75
Compute the starting gravity with a weighted average (by volume) of the sg
or honey and water (approximately 1.0)
s.g.(starting) = (s.g. honey)(volume honey) + (s.g. water)(volume water)
-----------------------------------------------------
total volume
or s.g. = [ (1.41)(honey volume) + (water volume) ] / total volume
You can also use this to estimate the amount of honey to add to must to
achieve a certain s.g. Replace the s.g. water with the s.g. must, put
desired s.g. on the left side and solve for volume honey.
>
> My first two batches are about two months old now, and are starting to
> really clarify (fermenting between 75 and 85
> degrees)
See my comment above about not waiting 2 months before looking at your mead
>...wondering when the
> best time to bottle is. Any thoughts?
Don't bottle until you are certain that fermentation is complete. Otherwise
the could get fermentation in the bottle, which can be dangerous, especially
if you are not expecting it.
Karl G. Long
Lindsay Brothers Mead
Fort Collins, Colorado
------------------------------
Subject: Re: posting
From: "Matt Maples" <matt_maples@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 14:27:15 -0700
Hi, glad to help here are the answers such as they are.
>I've never been clear about how you start a mead
Volume: There is no way of knowing which way the person wrote the recipe
unless they give you and OG. You can do the math to figure it out, otherwise
it's a crap shoot. In my recipes I state "enough water to make 5 gallons"
or "4 gallons to bring it up to 5 total".
>I've read several references so far about racking mead
Racking: If I am doing a mel or a meth I don't like to leave it on the fruit
for too long. I will usually rack at two weeks. After I get it off the fruit
or if there is none, I will not rack until it is done fermenting and ready
to age in the wine cellar. This can be anywhere from a month to two or
three, then in the cellar I let it go for 6 months to two years without
racking it. I think it helps the flavor develop if it sits on a little yeast
(but not fruit or spices). If I am going to use fining agents there will be
more, but I am getting away from using them. So that's three racking total!
In my opinion mead does better the less you screw with it.
>? How often should I test the SG
SG readings: As often as you like as long as you use good sanitation and do
not put the samples back in the carboy. As a rule I take an OG reading, one
before I cellar it and once before bottling. This is of course my minimum.
If I get too high of a reading I wont cellar it, I'll let it ferment further
and take another read later.
>, and used the bags as filters to strain the mead through
Filters: I've done something similar in the past. I found that it just
wasn't worth it. I didn't like the fact that the mead has too much of a
chance of getting oxidized. My suggestion would be to use a press bag and
ferment in a bucket or make more and acept the racking loss. I make a Kiwi
fruit mead (as opposed to a Kiwi bird mead) every year that I only get 3.75
to 4 gallons out of the five gallon batch. Some fruits are just more
difficult to rack and there is no easy way around it. And no you cant put
the kiwi in a bag it doesn't work the stuff is just too gooey.
>wondering when the best time to bottle is
Time to bottle: I am a firm believer in bulk aging. I don't have any proof
but it seems to smooth out faster and have more subtle complexity if it is
bulk aged. So if you can I would leave it in the carboy for 6 months+. If
you just can't do that (and there are plenty of reason why people can't
leave a full carboy laying around for a year) make sure and take a couple of
SG reading to make sure it is done.
I'm just one man with a lot of options but I hope this helps.
Matt Maples
May mead regain its rightful place as the beverage of gods and kings
------------------------------
Subject: Dissolved solids
From: "Steve Gaskin" <gasco58@tpg.com.au>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:32:07 +0930
Hello all,
I also am new to M. L. B., and have been enjoying it immensely!
Just one question at this stage, on the subject of dissolved solids. it
seems that some recipes call for a percentage of dissolved solids, how on
earth does a person go about calculating such a figure?
Excuse my ignorance, but I assume that somehow you would have to know the
amount of dissolved solids in the first place, and I haven't seen any honeys
that display these figures.
Looking forward to more chats in future.
God bless -- Steve.
------------------------------
Subject: Randy's stuck mead
From: Stephen Murphrey <swmurph@attglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:00:40 -0400
Regarding Randy from San Diego's stuck mead:
>...Realizing that the fermentation was stuck, I pitched another package
>of EC-1118 yeast, rehydrated. Also added 1/2 tsp. yeast energizer. At
>this time, the pH of the mead was 3.6....
And this answer:
>...I think its quite possible the your ferment is stalled due to too much
>acid...
I've found that too low a pH will prevent fermentation from starting.
I always "measure" pH (with paper strips) and add a little calcium
carbonate to get the pH above 4.0. This has always resulted in a
normal fermentation.
However, the wine book I have mentions 3.2 as the ideal pH for
wine must. So maybe the low pH is not really the problem.
Stephen Murphrey
------------------------------
Subject: Re: "must" bee a sign
From: Dave Polaschek <davep@davespicks.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 02:01:03 -0500
Aaron Perry <vspbcb@earthlink.net> wrote:
>What's your take on low gravity meads?
I'm a big fan of them. Quick and easy to ferment, and they're a nice
light summertime beverage. The only complaint (not from me, but some
people have different taste buds) is that they tend to ferment completely
dry, and there are folks who want some sugar in their drink.
Around here, the solution is to tell them to add some 7-up and make a
cheesy wine-cooler.
>What's the take on using ale yeast in mead making?
I use it almost all the time. I continue to have good results from it. Ny
apartment seems to be ale-yeast friendly, so I'm unlikely to change.
(There's probably a discussion on the microflora/fauna in the typical
dwelling vs. that in a brewer's dwelling in here somewhere.)
>Is the leftover beer in an ale secondary a "nutrient" for the yeast?
Not sure about this one. I would suspect that many of the yeast nutrients
that were originally present in the wort have been used up by the yeast,
but there's probably something useful left.
On the other hand, low OG meads with any fruit at all added seem to
ferment fine for me, so I don't think real hard about nutrients unless
I'm trying to make a Really Big Mead.
Hope this helps,
- -DaveP
Dave Polaschek - Polaschek Computing, Inc. - davep@best.com
PGP key and other spiffy things at <http://www.best.com/~davep/>
"I don't want anybody to make a fuss. When I go, I just want to
be stood outside in the garbage with my hat on." - Lou Grant
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #813
*******************************
