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Mead Lovers Digest #0796
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #796, 15 March 2000
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #796 15 March 2000
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Want to kill my mead... (Joe Kaufman)
What can I sub for mulberries? (Paul & Lisa)
boiling experiment (Leonard A Meuse)
RE: The Great Experiment (NLSteve@aol.com)
Again with the Braggot (Ted McIrvine)
Re: Help on a black mead (Gordon & Linda)
Mead on CNN (Richard Gardner)
Mutant Cherry Mead ("JNR_FARMS")
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #794, 9 March 2000 ("Tim Green")
Yeast experiment (Yacko Warner Yacko)
Re: exploding bottles and black mead ("Roel Toussaint")
Re: Help on a black mead (Steve Dempsey)
Re: Again with the Braggot (Scott Gemmett)
Update Master Goodwines Mead Must Sanitation Experiment (Jerry Harder)
Re: last forest mead question (Spencer W Thomas)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #794, 9 March 2000 (Spencer W Thomas)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Want to kill my mead...
From: Joe Kaufman <sutekh137@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:26:07 -0800 (PST)
Hey all,
I am making a mead I like to call HOG (High Octane Grape). It had
more potential alcohol percentage than I have ever started with
(feel free to convert to specific gravity...I never look at the
1.xxx numbers) at around 22%. Very very sweet. My goal was to
have the yeasties die out around 17-18% leaving some residual
sweetness (most all my other meads have been very dry).
Well, it went like gangbusters then just died out over the course
of a week or so (about 2-3 weeks in). Added another packet of
yeast -- sputtered and died. Made a little started and added some
energizer -- sputtered and died. Transferred to another carboy and
made a huge starter -- got going again for a few weeks, but now
appears to be dead again.
The problem is, it is still at around 11% potential alcohol, meaning
the yeast has petered out at around 11-12% alcohol. My girlfriend
actually loves the stuff right now (she likes high sweetness...most
of my other meads make her kick her legs out convulsively), and I
don't mind it either, but bottling with that much potential
grenade-sugar petrifies me.
SO! How do I:
- - bring this stuff back to life? What might be wrong? I have
successfully brewed a couple batches starting at a potential alcohol
of 17-18 percent...is a few more percentage points what is making it
so hard for the mead? The mead is incredibly simple, just lotsa
honey, lotsa grape jam, and lotsa grape juice...
- - kill it so I can bottle it right now. And I mean kill it good. I
don't mind using sulphites and whatnot, so any and all ideas to make
sure fermentation doesn't kick up again will be entirely wonderful.
I am a complete newbie to stopping fermentation, as my other batches
have all fermented to completion, so explicit instructions on various
methods would be cool.
Thanks for reading. Send replies to sutekh@dwx.com, or post. I do
appreciate it!!!
Thanks,
Joe Kaufman
=====
Go...away...cookie...man.
- Max
------------------------------
Subject: What can I sub for mulberries?
From: Paul & Lisa <pippi@erols.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:45:08 -0500
I have a recipe that calls for 12 ounces of frozen mulberries...
I've gone to all my local grocery stores, and even a few "natural
Foods" stores, but have been unable to find any.
I have a book on fruits and it says that mulberries have a
similar taste to blackberries.
the question is:
Is there anywhere to get Mulberries in our around Richmond, VA
or can I substitute blackberries without throwing off the acids/
tannin, etc.
Thanks for any help!
Paul in Virginia
------------------------------
Subject: boiling experiment
From: Leonard A Meuse <meuse@Stanford.EDU>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:11:51 -0800 (PST)
since i have yet to actually start mine, what we could do is all buy the
same honey...say from stpats(mesquite $25/gal) or honeyrun(organic
rainforest).... what have you, maybe if enough of us wanted to buy we'd
get a good discount as well. I do think it should be a darker/more
aromatic honey though.
Leonard Meuse
------------------------------
Subject: RE: The Great Experiment
From: NLSteve@aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:28:39 EST
I'm starting to get comments regarding the idea of a community "experiment"
on boiling vs. "au naturel" or using sulfites. Thanks, everybody.
I apologize in advance for the length of this reply.
What's in my brain is this: we form a "Mead Lovers' Lab" (possibly a website)
& tackle a few of the "faith" or "common knowledge" controversies in making
mead. A good start is the boiling issue ("everyone knows it drives away
aroma"; 'everyone knows it prevents infection").
Participants visit the website and obtain the protocol. They then do an
experiment, which they can repeat with future batches. The experiment
entails a side-by-side mead batch, with each person brewing two batches
treated identically except for the boiling issue or whatever is the variable
in question. They then do a double-blind evaluation of each finished batch,
complete a questionnaire (preferably an on-line questionnaire) with questions
about the type of honey, range of starting gravity, choice of dry/liquid
yeast/wine/beer/champagne/starter culture of yeast, time in carboy, time in
bottle, etc., and a color/aroma/tasting comparison modeled after AHA-style
rules.
If a certified brewing judge does the tasting/comparison, that can be noted.
If several judges have a chance to taste it, all results can be entered. Many
of us have access to judges through local clubs.
The questionnaire (again, preferably filled out online) goes into the
database for the experiment, and after enough experiments are entered, a
trend will start to emerge. Either most people's boiled and non-boiled
batches turn out differently along certain lines, or they don't.
By answering questions on methods & recipes, the trends could further be
broken down: for instance, we might notice that boiling helped reduce
infection among those brewers who "underpitch" yeast but produced no
appreciable benefits among those who used a liquid yeast & starter culture.
Or aroma differences were only noticed among "delicate" honeys. Or whatever
- -- the point is, "vive la difference" among our recipes & techniques; these
will add power to the experiment.
To respond to some comments:
Nathan says: "First, those that are convinced that one method is superior
probably won't change anyhow."
True, but I'm more concerned with making sure the newbies 20 years from now
are finally receiving some authoritative advice, rather than the "old wives'
tales" now in circulation. And also:
". . . do you really need a bunch of people doing this? I figure that if
you run enough triangle tastings with a couple of batches, it should become
fairly convincing early."
I think a bunch of experiments is a necessity. There is a lot of variability
even among even two "identical" batches of mead, with no known variables.
Also, I'm interested in finding out not only what boiling does to aroma, but
also what it does or doesn't do for clarity, reducing infection, etc. A
large sampling is necessary to really answer these questions.
And Yacko Warner and others have noted the difficulty of controlling all the
variables in recipes, techniques, and temperatures among all the brewers. To
which I respond that this is a "plus," not a "minus." If I do the experiment
my way and find no difference between my boiled/unboiled brews, and you do
the experiment your way and find no difference in your brews, and everyone
else does the same thing their way, then we have shown that for homebrewers
in general, boiling is not necessary for homebrewers. Likewise, we may find
that 80% of the time, the individual found his/her nonboiled batch to have
truly superior aroma & flavor to his/her boiled batch. Or we may find that
boiling only reduces off-flavors from infection among those of us who intend
to pitch only one pack of dried yeast per 5 gallons. Or we may find that
boiling improves clarity in finished mead, but that the difference disappears
among meads at least three years old.
The important thing is we control the variables between OUR OWN batches,
since we are only comparing our own side-by-side batches to each other.
I have some other thoughts, but I've rambled too much already. A couple of
folks are rarin' to go (which is terrific!) but I personally prefer a slow
and thorough approach and a little more discussion first. Could be I'm in
the minority, & if so will bow out gracefully. I know what I'm proposing is
kind of ambitious & maybe too much so.
Other questions of "faith" in meadmaking, besides boiling, can also be
addressed in the Lab. And heck, we're going to brew the mead anyway, why not
pretend it's for Progress & Science! What say ye?
Steve
------------------------------
Subject: Again with the Braggot
From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:55:35 -0800
> From: fjalar@mindspring.com
>
> I had this great theory that the Scottish Ale
> yeast would poop out at around 8-9% abv (based at
> least partially on research-it's what the guy at
> the brew shop said!)
> The batch had an OG of 1.130 and finished
> out at 1.006! Approx. 16% abv! My first question
> is, for future reference, what yeast would be best
> if I wanted to re-make this batch another time
> but end up with only 8-10% abv?
Ouch, you can't believe the guy at the brew shop! Scotch ale yeast is
one of my favorite strains for high-gravity brewing because it has a
very high alcohol tolerance yet doesn't rip through and ferment complex
sugars aggressively. The strongest barleywines I've made were fermented
with Scotch ale yeast or with Chico 1056 yeast. Perhaps the Irish or
London yeast strains are not as alcohol-tolerant and will die earlier.
(W-Yeast British is a fairly aggressive and estery fermenter if you
pitch enough of it.)
I like your recipe quite a bit, and I think that you are on track in
looking for a yeast that is less-tolerant of alcohol.
Best
Ted
>
> (For 5 US Gallons)
> - -9# honey (Mesquite)
> - -8# Liquid Malt Extract (Light)
> - -2 gallons of Blackberries (fresh picked, then
> frozen)
> - -2oz. bittering hops (N.Brewer@11%)
> - -1 oz. finishing hops (Fuggles@6.5%)
> - -1 oz. aromatic hops (Kent Goldings@5%)
> - -2 lbs cracked grain (1#Chocolate, 1#Munich)
> - -4 oz. Vanilla Extract
> - -Scottish Ale WYeast
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Help on a black mead
From: Gordon & Linda <olson99@rt66.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:18:21 -0700
Will in MLD #795 asks how to make a black mead.
The only black mead that I have made was a braggot: "Russian Imperial
Mead." It has been one of my favorite meads. For the non-beer drinkers
out there, "Russian Imperial Stout" is a classic style that is very
dark, full flavored, and high in alcohol.
What I did was to make a dry stout beer recipe and fermented it for a
week with an ale yeast. Then I added a wine yeast and honey to convert
the beer into a braggot. In total I added more than 12 pounds of honey
and ended up at 14% alcohol.
I used grains, but if you want to keep it simple, go to your local beer
brewing supply store and buy one or two cans of liquid stout extract,
for a total of 3 to 7 pounds of extract. If you really want it black,
use the larger amount. Buying malt extract makes the current honey
prices look cheap.
Make a mead with your normal process, substituting the stout extract
for an equal amount of honey. Because malt has lots of nutients, you
shouldn't need any with this recipe.
Because of the hops in the extract, it is best that the mead not be
too dry. It could taste too bitter. I would aim for 1.010 to 1.020.
Your tastes may vary.
Have fun!
Gordon
------------------------------
Subject: Mead on CNN
From: Richard Gardner <rgardner@mwr.is>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 22:18:40 +0000
Article on South Dakota honey producers pushing mead.
Producers look to market honey for mead
http://www.cnn.com/2000/FOOD/news/03/10/honey.mead.ap.ap/index.html
------------------------------
Subject: Mutant Cherry Mead
From: "JNR_FARMS" <JNR_FARMS@msn.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 21:15:39 -0600
On 1/19/00, I put together a cherry mead. I tested it last week, and
thought it was at the sweetness that I wanted, so I thought I would sulfite
it. I crushed 5 campden tablets in a shot glass of water, and added it.
There was a definite reaction, like a depth charge being dropped. When the
airlock was replaced, it was burping away. This didn't bother me at first,
but now, with it still working, I'm beginning to wonder. I had a lemon mead
that I sulfited the same day. It was sparkling clear when I bottled it
tonight. What to do now? Hit it with sulfite again? I racked it tonight.
Here's the recipe, as I don't know if it's the yeast variety or what.
5 lbs honey, 1 gallon of bush cherries, 5 gallons of water, heated to 170F ,
added 1 tsp pectic enzyme, 1 Tbs yeast nutrient, and 1 Tbs of citric acid
blend. For the yeast, I pitched in a dry packet of Premier Cuvee (Red
Star). When I sampled it 2/17/00, it lacked everything. I was hoping for
low alcohol (thus the 5 lbs of honey), but it was bland. I heated up
another gallon of cherries with another quart of honey, and pitched that in.
This started fermentation again, but I was hoping to stop it with some
residual sugar, thus the campden. What now?
JNR Farms Julie and Randy Nessler
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #794, 9 March 2000
From: "Tim Green" <timothygreen@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:26:44 -0500
Gillianne wrote:
>Now it is crystal clear, and a beautiful amber
>color. But it tastes NASTY!!!!! It has a specific gravitity of 1.020 which
>is lower than anything I can find
Don't throw it out!!! Get some wine bottles and good grade corks and
bottle it up!
I assume that with a final gravity of 1.020 it is fairly sweet (which is
the way I like my meads by the way). Does it just taste raw and raspy
with rough edges and a "hot" flavor (like whiskey), or is overly acid or
vinigery.
Many rough flavors can even out after aging. After it has a chance to
age for another year, try a bottle. You may be amazed at the changes.
The keywork in making mead, or any wine for that matter, is patience.
These things take time.
Tim Green
------------------------------
Subject: Yeast experiment
From: Yacko Warner Yacko <yacko@mint.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:43:03 -0500
Greetings all.
As posted earlier, I've started the yeast experiment. 5 batches with one
variance : the yeast. Details can be seen (and updates as well) from the
web page.
http://www.talker.com/yacko/yeast.html
Go there for look see's on all the fermenting fun. Sorry, can't arrange
the webcam for the carboys, but I'll update as I can.
yacko
- --
Without facts, the decision cannot be made logically. You must rely on
your human intuition.
-- Spock, "Assignment: Earth", stardate unknown
------------------------------
Subject: Re: exploding bottles and black mead
From: "Roel Toussaint" <patatjemet@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:50:02 CET
For once an European commending again, I don't really understand the fuss
about exploding bottles for the sparkling mead. I don't use beer- or
winebottles for bottling my meads. Especially for the sparkling meads I
would advice glass limonade bottles, the ones you can close with a normal
screwcap, though PET-bottles (poly-etheleen) are good enough too. If these
bottles can hold lemonades, why not mead? Incase you're afraid for
oxidation; put between the bottle and the cap some rubber tape.
For the part of Black-mead, I've been playing with the same idea for a
while, here in the Netherlands is a liquer called Dropshot look at
www.dekuyper.nl, named after the the infamous black Dutch candy (foreigners
somehow aren't too fond of it, so be warned!!!), some of these candies are
on honeybase, so just maybe when you combine these ingredients you might end
up with your black mead. It might end up tatsing like a coughingmedicine
then but so does that Dropshot (jummie). If you want to try it anyway let me
know and I'll look up what ingredients go in ...
Roel
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Help on a black mead
From: Steve Dempsey <steved@sedona.ch.intel.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:48:10 -0700
>From: w.w.mccormack@ev1.net
>Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 22:47:16 -0600
>
>Has anyone on the list ever heard of or seen a mead so dark it was
>black? Whether or not you have, does anyone know how this affect
>might be achieved (other than die -blech-)?
A common process for black pasta is to use squid ink. It
does add some flavor in pasta, don't know what it would do
in mead. Generally, animal products in fermented beverages
don't always work due to the extended time factor. Decomposition
results in a loss of the desired characteristic (flavors, colors
fade), or introduces unwanted flavors (stale/rotten).
Squid ink can be found or ordered from gourmet food stores, or any
really good seafood market.
Or you could do a stout style braggot, which sounds much more
interesting to me than mead of odd color for color effect alone.
- -Steve
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Again with the Braggot
From: Scott Gemmett <sgemmett@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:12:07 -0800
> So, since I ended up with more bang for my buck
> than expected, I decided to treat this like a
> Barleywine. I bottled it using a pound of clover
> honey as priming sugar.
(lots snipped)
Yikes! You might want to move these out of your basement into
the nearest abandon gravel pit - this sounds like a sure fire
recipe for bottle bombs! Who knows how much life the yeast
has left, it could just keep going until this 1 lb of honey is gone.
It is a better idea to add the additional sugar - if you want additional
sweetness - in the ferementor and wait until the yeast has completely
pooped out. Then bottle.
Yeah you won't get carbonation then but you recuce the risk of bombs
If you really want carbonation you shold only prime with the amount of
sugar that will allow safe carbonation (i.e. live with the ending level of
dryness) or do the above and force carbonate with CO2
Scott
------------------------------
Subject: Update Master Goodwines Mead Must Sanitation Experiment
From: Jerry Harder <mastergoodwine@alltel.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:20:40 -0600
The following Data was collected after 1 week fermentation:
NOTE 1: the Brix is not accurate because the refractive index of
alcolhol + water is not the same as straight sugar water mix.
I hope to develop a correlation for monitoring purposes
because it is so much easier to take a refractometer reading
than a hydrometer one- all you need is a drop.
NOTE 2: Sometimes I give two pH readings like 2.92/3.00
For some reason the pH of a 15-20ml sample is usually smaller
than say a 100 ml sample. 15 ml is my standard, but with
doing the FAN test it's easy to get the second, I just have to
remember. If there is only 1 number it is of the 15 ml sample.
6.5 gallon, pasteurized. cuvee yeast
SG 1.047
pH 3.06
FAN 127.4
Brix 15.8
No sanitation, Champagne Yeast
SG 1.053
pH 2.92/3.00
FAN 138.6
Brix 16.6
Boiled Champagne Yeast
SG 1.058
pH 2.75/2.79
FAN 68.6
Brix 17.2
Pasteurized -Set aside for aldehyde binding test
Champagne Yeast
SG 1.058
pH 3.00 /
FAN 149.8
Brix 17.6
Pasteurized Champagne Yeast
SG 1.056
pH 2.93 / 2.87
FAN 137.2
Brix 17.2
Pasteurized with Fermaid Champagne Yeast
SG 1.029
pH 3.42 / 3.45
FAN 86.8
Brix 13.2
Distilled water no sanitation, Amsterdam Lager yeast
SG 1.097
pH 4.89 / 4.93
FAN 284.2
Brix 23.0
NOTE This looks like a week fermentation is going.
The yeast was several years old, but the numbers
show very little movement. I'm adding an extra half
package yeast tonight.
Tap water pasteurized, Amsterdam Lager yeast
SG 1.098
pH 5.32
FAN 315.7
Brix 23.4
NOTE This looks like a week fermentation is going.
The yeast was several years old, but the numbers
show very little movement. I'm adding an extra half
package yeast tonight. The higher FAN may be due
to some nutrient in the yeast packet.
SO2 and acid added Champagne Yeast
SG 1.066
pH 2.85
FAN 154
Brix 18.4
SO2 @ 10 ppm Ripper method =
about 0.8ppm molecular
Weight until pH drops and add SO2 Champagne Yeast
SG 1.054
pH 2.97
FAN 135.8
Brix 16.6
Considering pH to have dropped .09g Potassium
Bisulfite was added. This gave about 20ppm
free SO2 (Ripper method) Which is about
1.3ppm molecular. This may be too far over
0.8 and Kill the yeast. We'll see. It measured about
16ppm free 10 min later. and I will check it again tomorrow.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: last forest mead question
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:00:28 -0500
On the other hand, I don't think Juniper berries shrink very much in
drying, and since the measure is by volume...
Try it and see, that's what I think.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #794, 9 March 2000
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:11:09 -0500
Yacko tries to throw cold water on the enthusiam. :-)
Actually, I think that as long as EACH participant brews several
batches, varying one thing between batches, and then person's results
are compared *among themselves*, then you're ok.
If there are enough people doing it, then you can "average out" the
other variables, and really get a better idea whether, *in general* a
particular technique makes a perceptible difference.
It WILL take some careful statistical analysis.
Let me illustrate my thesis with an example. Let's suppose we're
testing whether boiling reduces honey flavor. (So that's our working
hypothesis, which we're trying to test.)
So 20 (or 40) of us each make 2 otherwise identical batches of mead,
boiling one, and not the other. Same yeast, same amount of honey,
water, nutrients, etc. Then we get together a statistically
significant number of friends and do a "triangle test" to see if (1)
any difference is perceptible, and (2) what that difference is. Is it
ok to "bias" the results by asking "does one have more honey character
than the other?"
Then all 20 (or 40) of us send our results to the person doing the
number crunching. If, DESPITE the differences in water, etc. between
us, we all conclude that boiling the honey makes a difference in the
flavor, then it seems to me that it is MORE likely that this is true
in general.
What do you think? Am I all wet?
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #796
*******************************
