Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Mead Lovers Digest #0731
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #731, 22 March 1999
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #731 22 March 1999
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
re: Potassium Sorbate ("Jonathan S. Sabin")
Jake's Odd Problem (Bryant Johnson)
Re: Really BIG mead (Pug Bainter)
Re: Bog myrtle in Mead Lover's Digest #730, 15 March 1999 (P.J.Hiett@Cranf...)
Really big mead; potassium sorbate; slowing fermentation (Ed Iaciofano)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #730, 15 March 1999 (TAimless1@aol.com)
Re: coming up on blossom time... (jane beckman)
Oak leaves in Viking Mead? (jane beckman)
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #730, 15 March 1999 (Ian Gourdon)
vanilla mead...how to? ("Kurt Hoesly")
Braggot (LYNDALAND@aol.com)
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #729, 9 March 1999 (m_shapiro@bigfoot.com)
RE: Really BIG mead and Slowing fermentation (m_shapiro@bigfoot.com)
Questions About Apple Cider Regulations ("Michael O. Hanson")
Re: Oak leaves in Viking Mead? (Bill Sobieski)
2nd batch - stuck? ("Mike LeBlanc")
sulfur--Yechh!--help (E9c6zum@aol.com)
NOTE: Digest only appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests. When
subscribing, please include name and email address in body of message.
Digest archives and FAQ are available for anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu
in pub/clubs/homebrew/mead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: re: Potassium Sorbate
From: "Jonathan S. Sabin" <jsabin@ncc.moc.kw>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:40:30 +0300
In MLD#730 dated 15 March "Jake Hester" <jake_hester@hotmail.com>
writes:
Odd problem, guys...
At the advice of a few people on the list, I
purchased some potassium sorbate to halt
fermentation in a cyser where I'd accidentally
used montrachet yeast instead of champagne yeast.
So I dissolved about 1/4 tsp in a 1/4 cup of
water and added it at racking time. The rack
went normally, but.. before racking, it had
totally cleared, and within 24 hours of racking
and adding the potassium sorbate it *uncleared*!
It's been a week, and the sediment hasn't
fallen back out. And it's still fermenting!
I got my potassium sorbate from www.beer-wine.com,
and it looks like tiny white balls, almost like
ultra-miniature styrofoam peanuts. Did they ship
me the right stuff? If so, does anyone know what
the heck's going on? Thanks in advance!
Jake
Jake,
I believe that you received the correct product. My conclusion as to your
current problem has nothing at all to do with continued fermentation or
infections, if you were even worried about that. I believe that your
racking and the addition of the potassium sorbate may have started to
release very small trapped co2 that appeared to be clear in your primary.
When this co2 is released in the must it appears as almost like a chill
haze and airlock action or course resumes as they are released from
whatever chemical charge that had been holding onto them. This has
happened to me in the past, my meads have always cleared in a few weeks,
and since it appears that yours is still very young, just wait it out. I
think it will stop.
Salud!
Jon...aka Cruz.....
------------------------------
Subject: Jake's Odd Problem
From: Bryant Johnson <yarnspinner@nceye.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:26:48 -0500
Jake,
Your fermentation is still going because K-sorbate will NOT stop an
active fermentation. Sorbate is used on a wine that has stopped
fermenting in order to PREVENT the fermentation from re-activating.
You now want to drop the temperature on that sucker and stop the
fermentation. Drop the temp to about 15-40 degrees F for two weeks to
put the yeast to sleep. If this is a malo-lactic fermentation, you
may already have an irreparable problem. MLF and sorbate do NOT
mix--the result is a "bubble-gum" flavor. I discovered this with a
cyser-metheglyn that I'd (apparently) used cider with some sorbate in
it. Now I have a "medicinal bubble-gum/cinnamon" mead.
Good luck!
Bryant Johnson
Yarnspinner
>
> Subject: Potassium Sorbate
> From: "Jake Hester" <jake_hester@hotmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:46:25 PST
>
> Odd problem, guys...
>
> At the advice of a few people on the list, I
> purchased some potassium sorbate to halt
> fermentation in a cyser where I'd accidentally
> used montrachet yeast instead of champagne yeast.
> So I dissolved about 1/4 tsp in a 1/4 cup of
> water and added it at racking time. The rack
> went normally, but.. before racking, it had
> totally cleared, and within 24 hours of racking
> and adding the potassium sorbate it *uncleared*!
> It's been a week, and the sediment hasn't
> fallen back out. And it's still fermenting!
>
> I got my potassium sorbate from www.beer-wine.com,
> and it looks like tiny white balls, almost like
> ultra-miniature styrofoam peanuts. Did they ship
> me the right stuff? If so, does anyone know what
> the heck's going on? Thanks in advance!
>
> Jake
>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Really BIG mead
From: Pug Bainter <pug@pug.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:34:56 -0600
Gordon Laqua (glaqua@harbor.ab.ca) said something that sounded like:
> I started an Apricot mead, using an apricot fruit wine kit, and 15Lbs of
> somewhat dark honey.
I do a similar thing to make cyser a lot, although I typically only use
12 lbs of honey to 5 gallons worth of concentrate. (Only filling to 5
gallons.)
> Is 1.160 high for an OG?
Yes, although I've seen slightly higher. We had a cyser that was at
1.174 OG after using more honey.
> And is there anything that I can do to prevent
> the formation of off-flavours?
Make sure that the fermentation you want takes off and you don't get
wild yeast or bacteria in it. This is the hardest part with a high
gravity mead.
> I suspect that with a gravity this high
> that it may get a turpentine/nail-polish-remover taste that will take years
> to mellow.
Actually the hardest part is getting over the cloying sweet flavor. With
an OG that high, you still have a lot of residual sugar left when the
ferementation is done. The alcohol flavor is definately overpowered by
the sweetness of the melomel.
> I have started by putting the primary on the basement floor to
> the early fermenting as slow as possible.
>From my experience, it will be slow anyway.
Just relax and enjoy.
Ciao,
- --
Phelim "Pug" Gervase | "I want to be called. COTTONTIPS. There is something
Barony of Bryn Gwlad | graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with
House Flaming Dog | vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes
pug@pug.net | beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"
Note: The views do not reflect the SCA nor the Kingdom of Ansteorra.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bog myrtle in Mead Lover's Digest #730, 15 March 1999
From: P.J.Hiett@Cranfield.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:24:36 +0100
Dan McFeeley wrote about Pors, known as bog myrtle.
My understanding is that bog myrtle's latin name is Myrica gale (synonyms
M. palustris and Gale palustris). In the quoted recipe, pors is said to
equal "Myrtus brabantica". Though the members of the Myrtaceae may have
aromatic leaves (e.g. common myrtle, Myrtus communis), this is a different
family than Myrica gale belongs to (Myricaceae).
Bog myrtle (Myrica gale) was, and perhaps is, used in ale as a flavouring
rather than hops.
I know of an English supplier of seeds(John Chambers Wild Flower Seeds, 15
Westleigh Rd., Barton Seagrave, Kettering, Northamptonshire, England. NN15
5AJ) , for I have purchased some. I haven't tried germinating them yet, and
I have seen conflicting reports about their ease of germination.
Peter Hiett (P.J.Hiett@cranfield.ac.uk)
<In reply to........>
Pors is also known as bog myrtle, according to an old discussion on
MLD. Does anyone know any sources where this can be ordered from?
Thanks in advance for any help?
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
- - ------[snip!]---------------------------------------------------------
Subject: old_mead
Subject: 1600's Mead book w/Viking ingred
1600's Mead recipe w/old nordic (viking) ingredients.
1 gallon dark clover honey
4 gallons spring water
2 sprigs Pors and about a 3" handful of loose leaves
4 tsp acid blend
5 tsp yeast nutrient
1/2 tsp Irish Moss
(Pors = "Myrtus Brabantica")
------------------------------
Subject: Really big mead; potassium sorbate; slowing fermentation
From: Ed Iaciofano <Ed.Iaciofano@quantum.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:19:40 -0800
Hi,
Gordon Laqua asks if 1.160 is too high of a
starting gravity and asks if he'll have a carboy
full of turpentine flavor after fermentation. Well,
yeah, to me 1.160 is very high. I suggest fermenting
cool (which you are already doing) and pitching lots of
yeast, as in 4g per gallon. You didn't mention which
type of yeast you are using, I'd suggest Lalvin EC-1118.
The Lalvin page mentions that this type has high osmotic
and alcohol tolerance, which is what you'd need for a
1.160 must.
Jake Hester wonders why his mead got cloudy again
after racking and adding potassium sorbate to stop the
fermentation. As has been mentioned many times in
the digest, sorbate should not be used to stop fermentation,
rather to prevent one from restarting. Use it after fermentation
is done, typically just before bottling, especially if you are
adding sugar or honey to sweeten for balance, to prevent
fermentation in the bottle. 1/4 tsp. per gallon of the little white
pellets is correct. I don't know what the cloudiness is from,
a guess would be that you roused the yeast by racking and
they are now feeding on any remaining sugar.
Matt Birchfield wonders why his 1.165 mead has only
dropped to 1.120 in a month. My guess is there's a couple
of things happening. First in the future I'd omit the lime
juice in the must and correct the acidity after fermentation
is over. The pH of the must will drop naturally during
fermentation, I don't feel that the lime juice is needed. Also,
very little sediment in the carboy means very little yeast
activity. Possible causes could be 1.165 is too high for the
sweet mead yeast (need to add a more tolerant yeast such
as champagne), the temp is too cold (warm it up), pH too low
(another possible consequence of the lime juice, add
calcium carbonate), not enough yeast to begin with (pitch
3-4g per gallon). Even with three tubes (with no starter?) my
guess is that you need more.
Meads don't have to take forever to ferment. Mine typically
go from as high as 1.120 to dryness in three to five weeks, usually
closer to three. I pitch 3-4g per gallon of Cote Des Blanc
(rehydrated) and ferment at 60 to 65 deg.
Regards,
/Ed_I
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #730, 15 March 1999
From: TAimless1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:54:26 EST
Re Potassium Sorbate
Hi Jake i started using sorbate last fall in my meads. From what you describe
they sent you the right stuff but you did not use enough of it.
the supplier that sold me mine had instructions to use 1tsp. per gallon
after racking . Since you didn't use enough sorbate and you probably
oxygenated your mead while racking your yeast decided to keep on fermenting. I
would try again using more Potassium Sorbate this time.
Bob
------------------------------
Subject: Re: coming up on blossom time...
From: jane beckman <beckman@tibco.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:53:51 -0800
Hey, Dave, long time no chat---we used to both inhabit the bee list!
>A caution: The yellow jasmine of the southeast (which is blooming
now)
makes toxic nectar which kills bee brood.
Nope, this is the white star jasmine. Know the stuff you mean, though.
Didn't realize it was toxic, either. Thanks for the tip. (Though my
hive is long gone---mites made the inhabitants pack up and leave, one
day. Saved most of the honey, though.)
Jane/Jilara
------------------------------
Subject: Oak leaves in Viking Mead?
From: jane beckman <beckman@tibco.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:58:35 -0800
Could be used as a source of tannic acid. Could give an interesting
finish, rather the way the use of hops gives Ethiopian taj an
interesting finish.
>Pors is also known as bog myrtle
Any idea what family of plants bog myrtle belongs to? It might be
easier to find if we know family and/or botanic name.
Jane/Jilara (who doesn't have an herbal handy at work...)
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #730, 15 March 1999
From: Ian Gourdon <agincort@raex.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:18:32 -0500
Well, My scant research suggests that Bog Myrtle is not considered a
good idea in modern recreations of old recipes. Women are advised to
avoid anything with this ingredient, as it tends to cause abortions...
It's been discussed over at SCA-cooks, and the thought was to leave it
alone. I seem to have not kept the details, sorry.
Ian Gourdon
> Subject: Oak leaves in Viking Mead?
> From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
...
> Does anyone else know about the use of oak leaf in wines and meads?
> Pors is also known as bog myrtle, according to an old discussion on
> MLD. Does anyone know any sources where this can be ordered from?
...
> Subject: old_mead
>
> Subject: 1600's Mead book w/Viking ingred
> 1600's Mead recipe w/old nordic (viking) ingredients.
>
> 1 gallon dark clover honey
> 4 gallons spring water
> 2 sprigs Pors and about a 3" handful of loose leaves
> 4 tsp acid blend
> 5 tsp yeast nutrient
> 1/2 tsp Irish Moss
>
> (Pors = "Myrtus Brabantica")
- --
Ian Gourdon of Glen Awe
- - Companion of the order of the Greenwood Company
http://web.raex.com/~agincort
------------------------------
Subject: vanilla mead...how to?
From: "Kurt Hoesly" <hoesly@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:46:23 CST
Hello, all...
I would like to brew a batch of vanilla mead, but am not sure just how
to go about it. (Well, I know the basics, but...)
Would I end up with better results if I put the vanilla bean in some
water and simmered it for a while, or by putting it in the carboy during
fermentation? Would having the bean in the alcohol produce some strange
flavors?
If I had two small carboys available, I'd do a batch each way and
compare...
Anyone have experience with this sort of concoction? Right now, I'm
leaning toward going the simmering route, as I would with cinnamon or
cloves. Suggestions definitely welcome...
ad-thanks-vance
kurt
------------------------------
Subject: Braggot
From: LYNDALAND@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:49:02 EST
A friend of mine and I brewed up a 5 gallon batch of braggot about 5 months
ago. First thing to mention, LET THIS AGE! It was good after only a month,
but smooth and yummy 3 months later. It was:
6# blueberries
6# light malt extract
1# darkest grain you can find
14# sage honey.
2 black cardamum pods, broken and steeped with the grains
zest of 2 oranges and 1 lemon
We brewed it like a beer and used a good quality wine yeast (can't remember
which)
It has almost no carbonation, but I think that if you cut back on the honey
(about 9# total) that would give the yeast a fighting chance at bottle
fermentation.
This is a dark, winter type brew, that will knock you out. The basic recipe
should work for any fruit/honey/grain combination
Doug T.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #729, 9 March 1999
From: m_shapiro@bigfoot.com
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:24:27 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Braggots
> From: Patrick and Jennifer Fimbres <patnjen@azstarnet.com>
> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 09:51:30 -0700
>
> I am going to attempt to make a braggot.
<SNIP>
> I am shooting for a O.G. of 1.150.
Do you really mean to aim for 20% alcohol?!? That's an awful lot, and trying
to do it all at once with an O.G. of 1.15 is nearly impossible. If you really
want that high of an alcohol content you are going to have to start with a
lower O.G. (1.090 - 1.100) and syrup feed the must.
When I make braggot, I aim for between 6% and 7% alcohol, with about half of
the fermentables coming from honey and half from malt. I use primarily Pale
Ale malt with some Crystal malt thrown in to add some complexities.
HTH
Wassail!
Marc Shapiro m_shapiro@bigfoot.com
Visit 'The Meadery' at:
http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/
"If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old,
unless your wife shoots you."
- -- Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Farm Winery
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Really BIG mead and Slowing fermentation
From: m_shapiro@bigfoot.com
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:46:33 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Really BIG mead
> From: Gordon Laqua <glaqua@harbor.ab.ca>
> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 10:27:00 -0700
>
> Subject: Slowing fermentation and an update
> From: Matt Birchfield <peridot@usit.net>
> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:50:42 -0500
>
Since both of these posts referenced an O.G. in the range of 1.160 - 1.165 I
will answer them together. This is a really high O.G. with a potential alcohol
of over 21%!!! Expect a VERY LONG, SLOW fermentation and DO NOT expect your
mead to get anywhere near dry. I have heard of controlled laboratory
fermentations that managed to get that much alcohol out of wine yeasts, but
that was using a syrup feeding method, not starting with that many
fermentables! Wine yeast just doesn't normally survive that much alcohol and
is not happy about that much sugar all at once, either.
Gordon, using 15 lbs of honey in place of 12 lbs of sugar in the recipe seems
to be right on target. I would not expect either to result in an O.G. of
1.160. Neither would I expect an O.G. of 1.060. Just over two pounds of sugar
per gallon should result in an O.G. of around 1.090 and a potential alcohol of
about 12%. (NOTE: This does not take into account any sugar present in the
other ingredients in your kit, so the actual O.G. would be higher than that.)
HTH
Wassail!
Marc Shapiro http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro.html
------------------------------
Subject: Questions About Apple Cider Regulations
From: "Michael O. Hanson" <mhanson@winternet.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:51:58 -0600
I have heard that makers of apple cider are or will be required to add
Potassium Sorbate to their products. Is this
true? If so, do you know of any exceptions to this regulation short of
pressing my own apples? I have made
fermented cider and mead with very good results using apple cider purchased
from grocery stores and would like to
avoid pressing my own apples if possible.
Thank You,
Mike Hanson
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Oak leaves in Viking Mead?
From: Bill Sobieski <billski@keyinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:56:56 -0800
Subject: Oak leaves in Viking Mead?
>From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:58:12 -0600
>
>I found the post listed below on a gopher server some time ago -- sorry
>about the lack of citation, but this was all that was listed. I have a
>few questions on the use of leaves in the recipe. I'm certain that
>the leaves were supposed to be oak, but how much are needed? It calls
>for a "3 inch handful of loose leaves" but what does this mean? A
>three inch thick handful? Are dried leaves supposed to be used?
> ^^^^^
>
>Does anyone else know about the use of oak leaf in wines and meads?
>
>Pors is also known as bog myrtle, according to an old discussion on
>MLD. Does anyone know any sources where this can be ordered from?
>
>Thanks in advance for any help?
>
><><><><><><><><><><>
><><><><><><><><>
>Dan McFeeley
>mcfeeley@keynet.net
>
I think the "3 inch handful" is leaves layered on your hand stacked up to
three inch tall is what they mean. Years ago my father made an Oak Leaf
Wine that was very good. The leaves were fresh.
Bill Sobieski
------------------------------
Subject: 2nd batch - stuck?
From: "Mike LeBlanc" <mvleblanc@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:16:20 GMT
I've been lurking here for about a month now, and have finally decided
to post my first message.
About a month ago, I made my second batch of mead - a one gallon spiced
mead. I used three pounds of light honey, and Lalvin EC-1118 yeast. For
nutrient, I threw in a handful of chopped raisins. I read somewhere that
you could do this. It started off with a SG of about 1.100. After two
weeks, it stopped fermenting and has stayed that way since. The SG is
now about 1.038.
Three days ago, I added in about a half-teaspoon of yeast nutrient and
a half teaspoon of yeast energizer and stirred it up. Still nothing!
Can anyone offer any help or solutions? Is it normal for it to stall
like this?
Mike LeBlanc
Moncton, NB
Canada, eh!
------------------------------
Subject: sulfur--Yechh!--help
From: E9c6zum@aol.com
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 02:41:42 EST
I just am now drinking a bottle of my first attempt at a sulfited mead. I
added only 1 tab per gallon of must. I am finding there is a sulfurous smell
and aftertaste to the mead, and a nasty little sulfur burp shortly after just
about every swallow. not all of this batch is presently bottled, so if there
is a way to help the sulfur escape the remaining 3 gallons before bottling, I
would like to know, because I find this stuff pretty nasty.
Thanks for your help, you guys (and gals) are a cool bunch,
Lane
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #731
*******************************
