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Mead Lovers Digest #0688
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #688, 27 July 1998
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #688 27 July 1998
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
sand cherries? (Dick Dunn)
Yeast as yeast nutrient ("Grant W. Knechtel")
Re: Speed Mead (LONG) (Scott Murman)
slow starts ("David Johnson")
Undead Bread yeast (Samuel Mize)
potassium carbonate (Dan Thompson)
Re: Ultimate score for honey supplies - mld#687 ("Snydock, Gary E")
Non-Alcoholic Mead....and other things... ()
Mead Virgin followup (Jim Conroy)
Re: Jalapeno Mead ("Marc Shapiro")
Re: A situation of great gravity ("Marc Shapiro")
Re: Mead virgin seeks experience ("Marc Shapiro")
Questions galore (JGORMAN@steelcase.com)
Commercial Meaderies (Sparrow)
Blueberry mead ("Thaddaeus A. Vick")
juice/extracts ("Kurt Hoesly")
Strawberry mead (John Looney)
NOTE: Digest only appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: sand cherries?
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 22 Jul 98 19:08:29 MDT (Wed)
We planted a bunch of sand cherries (as a wind/noise break) last year, so
we're starting to get a bit of fruit this year.
There is one standard thought about any new/unusual fruit one encounters,
namely, "I wonder how this would go in a mead."
The sand cherries are an interesting but not particularly distinctive tart-
fruity taste. The astringency is noteworthy, and I'm wondering whether it
will provide tannin-or-equivalent to help the character and clarity of a
mead.
Now, I'm not asking *whether* I should try these in a mead...of *course*
I will! But I'd like to hear from anyone who has already tried this odd
little fruit and has any advice about quantity, style, etc.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Mr. Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job."
------------------------------
Subject: Yeast as yeast nutrient
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK@hartcrowser.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:44:03 -0700
Sam Mize asked in MLD 687,
- -snip-
I'm considering using bread yeast in making mead. Put down that hatchet...
With the cheaper canned beer kits, it's often suggested to use a name-brand
yeast, and just boil the kit yeast to add nutrients. I know that one kind
of yeast nutrient includes centrifuged yeast cells.
I'm going to be boiling a little water for this batch anyway (to steep
some tea) --is it reasonable to boil some cheap bread yeast for 10 minutes
to kill it, and add it as nutrients? IIRC, the only nutrient I've seen at
my homebrew store is the pure white crystals which I believe is just
diammonium phosphate.
Thanks for any input,
- -snip-
Sam,
I habitually use dried yeast powder I buy from our local health food store
as yeast nutrient. It is non-viable and sold in bulk as a nutritional
supplement for a few bucks a pound (a lot of powder). It is cheaper by
far than the cheapest viable yeast I've seen.
It only makes sense to use yeast as yeast nutrient, and I've seen boiling
a bit of yeast for nutrient recommended several times by different
authors. What I don't know experimentally is how effective it is, since I
have not tried parallel batches with and without, but I've never had a
stuck batch when I've used it. Not proof, nor anything but a strong
indicator, since the batches might not have stuck without the powder.
What I do is boil some water with a tablespoon of yeast powder and add to
dilution water for making 5 gallons of must. The yeast powder method sits
a bit better with me than adding diammonium phosphate nutrient to mead.
The feeling is similar to using organic instead of chemical fertilizers
for growing vegetables. Just my opinion about my own mead, of course. If
one had a good, cheap source for bread yeast or some washed yeast cake
from a batch of beer or mead, it should work as well and be as thrifty,
too. Wassail!
- -Grant
Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei
Des Moines, Washington
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Speed Mead (LONG)
From: Scott Murman <smurman@best.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:00:29 -0700 (PDT)
If you're really set on drinking a wine within 4 months, perhaps what
you really want to make is a fruit beer. You can force a square peg
into a round hole, but it's never going to fit very well.
SM
------------------------------
Subject: slow starts
From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj@inwave.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:16:42 -0500
Jim Conroy asks about a slow start to his mead....
Jim,
You don't mention using a starter so my guess is you didn't use one. This
would lead to some under pitching. Any underpitching in mead will lead to
long lag times before fermentation is visible. This is longer than in beer
because mead is relatively nutrient poor. Another consideration may be that
you didn't adequately aerate your must. Oxygen is needed for yeast
replication and not having enough can slow this process down. Perhaps it is
not too late to add some Oxygen, but I would ask some more experienced
meadmakers to comment on this and how to do it. This is a very similar
story to my experience with my first mead (also a strawberry melomel). When
I was at this point, my wife took a sample to work(medical lab) and caused
quite a stir when she went to examine a "sample" from her husband 8^). If
your sanitation is Good, you should be fine. I would take this as an
opportunity to reflect on where you may want to reflect on where you want
to go with this mead. If I am right Wyeast dry is a champagne yeast
(someone correct me if I am wrong) thus you are going to end up with a very
dry mead. I have not used rhubarb (so someone else may want to jump in
here), but 4 lbs in 2 gals. sounds like you may get a fair amount of
sourness from that. You may need some residual sweetness to balance it.You
can add more honey but it is a very alcohol tolerant yeast and it is hard
to push it past its tolerance to get some residual sweetness. You could let
it ferment to dryness and sulfite and sorbate it before adding honey
(perhaps 1/2 lb at a time) to get the balance you desire and bottle still.
Some one else will have to tell how exactly to do this (please post it to
me too , since I am interested). I wonder if one could at this point could
add a less tolerant yeast with "killer" properties(like Lalvin D-47 or
K1V-1116) and it could out compete the Wyeast and end up with a less
attenuated or alcoholic product.
I have a question or two for the mead makers myself. the first regards the
use of sorbate. I asked this before but lost the response. Do you boil it
or add it to boiled water before adding it to the mead?
Also, I learned a sad lesson. One fruit fly is enough. I had seen one
fruit fly in my cyser while it was fermenting and hoped that the killer
yeast, vigorous fermentation, high alcohol level, fermenting to dryness,
and maybe it had gone through the boil would save me. Nope. Is there
anything I could have done to save this batch?
Dave
------------------------------
Subject: Undead Bread yeast
From: Samuel Mize <smize@mail.imagin.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:46:02 -0500 (CDT)
Greetings,
Update on using boiled bread yeast as nutrient:
Mike Allred reported (by email) a frighteningly strong fermentation
from boiled bread yeast, so I'll use the thoroughly dead yeast powder
that Grant recommended. I think I'll do a fermentation test on it
too, before I gamble honey on it.
Best,
Sam Mize
- --
Samuel Mize -- smize@imagin.net (home email) -- Team Ada
Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam
------------------------------
Subject: potassium carbonate
From: Dan Thompson <thompson@cotf.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:11:21 -0400
>Monitor the pH of your must, before and during fermentation. If it falls
>below 4.0 it's too acid for fermentation to proceed efficiently -- add
>some calcium carbonate or potassium carbonate to raise the pH.
Sam's mention of potassium carbonate reminded me of a problem I had with a
previous mead. It's pH was too low so I added potasium carbonate in an
attempt to raise the pH. It showed very little effect and I ended up
adding a lot of it. When I racked the mead I discovered a clump of it on
the bottom of my fermenter.
Has anyone else had the same problem? How can you make sure this stuff
goes into the solution? I tried disolving it in a cup of hot water first
which I think helped a little but not very.
Thanks
Dan
****************************************************************************
Dan Thompson
Programmer/Instructional Designer
thompson@cotf.edu
NASA Classroom of the Future
Wheeling Jesuit University
316 Washington Ave
Wheeling, WV 26003
304-243-4415
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Ultimate score for honey supplies - mld#687
From: "Snydock, Gary E" <Gary.E.Snydock@state.mn.us>
Date: 23 Jul 1998 09:43:12 -0500
In MLD#687, Leonard Meuse shares his finding of the website for the National
Honey Board and what a treasure trove of web-oriented honeys it is. As a
beekeeper, I just want to add a word of caution for those who obtain honey
in this manner.
"Know your beekeeper, know your honey", may be a good motto for mead makers
and/or honey consumers in general.
The National Honey Board promotes domestic honey. Why is this important to
you the consumer? For years, domestic honey producers have been battling
cheaper and inferior imported honey Some of this imported honey has been
found to be adulterated with other sugars and is not pure honey. There have
been other contaminants found as well.
This is not to say that some domestic honey may not contain contaminants,
but domestic honey and the apiaries that produce it are subject to state and
federal inspections. Also, "pride in product" causes most domestic
beekeepers, whether hobbyists, sideliners or commercial producers, to
literally pour ourselves into our work and our product.
My advice to any honey consumer is buy local if possible. Find a local
beekeeper or two and see if they can supply your needs. I usually sell my
honey in quantities no larger than 3 pounds, but will sell larger quantities
if asked and I have the product on hand. You can find local beekeepers at
farmer's markets, craft fairs, at roadside stands, or by contacting your
state's Department of Agriculture.
Should you want to try a mead using a particular honey, such as orange
blossom, and you live in a part of the country where this is not a natural
source of nectar, you will not likely obtain this from your local
beekeeper. In that case, using the internet to locate a source of supply
may be a good option and using the National Honey Board website is a good
place to start.
Gary Snydock
High Oaks Apiary
Oakdale, Minnesota
-------------------------
------------------------------
Subject: Non-Alcoholic Mead....and other things...
From: <SidheWing@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:51:22 EDT
Hi! I'm new to the list but have been reading for a couple weeks now. I'm
only 16, which is that main reason for the slightly off-of-the-usual-subject
posting.
I found a recipe for a "non-alcoholic mead" in a book at the Library, it had
alcoholic mixes too, but for obvious reasons I opted for the non. I've made
the plain recipe, strawberry, cinnamon, peach and kiwi-rose petals. Here is
the recipe:
1 gallon water
1/2-1 lb. honey(I lb. may be to sweet for some, but is perfect for kids!)
1/2 cup orange juice
1/2 cup lemon juice
1 lb. fruit chunks (optional)
Bring the water to a rolling boil, and then dump in the honey, stirring until
it dissolves. Add in the fruit chunks and bring the mixture to a boil. Skim
the honey scum off the top until it dissappears(this confused me _so_ much,
it's not like scum, but this frothy yellowish stuff at the top...though it
turns red or green or whatever when you add fruit), the best utensil to use
for this is like a fairly flat spoon with holes in the bowl and a handle at an
angle(what is this utensil called? Please tell me!!!). After the scum ceases
to rise, let it cool and bottle it. It has to be gone in about four weeks
otherwise it gets..well...gross from bacteria and such.
I know this isn't _real_ mead, but it's great for parties with people who
don't drink (i.e. my friends and I). My Mom is thrilled that I'm doing
_something_ in the kitchen. My aunt though, has been bugging me to find out
about the real deal. Does anyone have a small volume, simple, recipe that
doesn't call for a lot of equipment??
This list has been really cool, and is always interesting reading, I usually
end up forwarding it to my dad, cause he loves brewing and all that stuff!
- -Thanks So Much, Evan
------------------------------
Subject: Mead Virgin followup
From: Jim Conroy <jconroy@binghamton.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:01:22 -0400
Folks,
Just a quick follow up on my melomel Straberry Ruhbarb where I have not
"observed" any signs of fermentation.
Thanks to those that replied to me. Quick summary;
Check the Ph, 4.0 or higher
Possible bad Yeast; consider repitching
Open Fermentator stir and check for signs of activity
Check the Ph
So I opened the fermentator (arghhh, chance for bad things to happen) and
saw a fair amount of head and signs that there has been some quite a bit of
activity. I guess the key here is that I'm doing a 1-2 gal baatch in a
opaque brew container, 7 gal. Since it has been warm I'm sure that most of
the activity happened quickly when I was not at home.
Now I plan to wait a week and rack to glass jugs with airlock and wait.
Jim
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Jalapeno Mead
From: "Marc Shapiro" <mshapiro@mail.inetone.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:11:40 +0000
Jeanette Gugler <jgugler@mindspring.com> replied to a question on
clearing a jalapeno mead with the following (among other comments):
> Now that it is cloudy, what to do? The current tannin thread
> presents one possible solution. Time is sometimes the solution
> (I've seen wines take months to clear; but sometimes they won't ever
> without help.) By seven months, you should see some results. Hmm.
> Is it still throwing sediment? If yes, rack and wait. If not,
> action is required. You will find there are many, many suggestions
> for clearing. These include egg whites, bentonite, cold exposure,
> tannin, and many others. Not ever having had the problem (yet), I
> leave it to other to give directions and pros/cons of each method.
Another possibility is pectin. If you did not use pectic enzyme at
the start then it might be a good idea to do so now. Be advised that
pectic enzyme works better at warmer temperatures and also has
reduced effectiveness in the presence of alcohol. Adding it after
fermentation, when the alcohol is already present and you do not want
to warm it up, will require the use of a larger amount of enzyme than
if you were adding it at the start. It will also take longer to be
effective. I have seen jalapeno wines and mels (J-Juice in the
vernacular) form strange patterns of cloudiness in the carboy and
take long times to clear. I have never actually made them, myself,
but I know people who do and I am more than happy to help them drink
the final product.
HTH
Wassail!
Marc Shapiro m_shapiro@bigfoot.com
Visit 'The Meadery' at:
http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/
"If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old,
unless your wife shoots you."
- --Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Re: A situation of great gravity
From: "Marc Shapiro" <mshapiro@mail.inetone.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:11:41 +0000
Samuel Mize <smize@mail.imagin.net> wrote:
>
> I've been thinking (danger, Will Robinson) -- mead recipes usually
> pump the gravity up to or past 1.100 (as far as I've seen). Is
> there any reason not to make it at a lower gravity? Obviously, this
> will be thinner and weaker -- that's the goal. Sort of like a
> lawnmower mead.
>
> The flavor of most honey is fairly mild, so it won't have a lot of
> honey character. Are there any other drawbacks?
Lots of people make lower gravity meads. If you want lawnmower mead
there is nothing wrong with that. It will ferment quickly and not
require the extended aging times of a traditional mead of higher
alcohol. Just remember that, like a beer of similar strength, this
brew will be more suceptible to bacterial infection and other ills of
that sort since it will not have the higher alcohol content to
protect it. Just as it will not take as long to age, do not expect
its shelf life to be as long as a more potent mead.
HTH
Wassail!
Marc Shapiro http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead virgin seeks experience
From: "Marc Shapiro" <mshapiro@mail.inetone.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 11:11:41 +0000
Jim Conroy <jconroy@binghamton.edu> wrote:
>
> My basic question is how long should it take before I observe signs
> of fermentation?
>
> It has been one week today, Wed. I have not observed any action
> from the air lock. The must takes up 2 gal of the 7 gallon primay
> frementor.
Jim,
Your recipe and methods seem fine. I do have a few comments,
however, on your problem:
1) A yeast starter is always a good idea. It insures that the yeast
is active and fermenting before it goes into your full batch. It
also allows you to start with a MUCH higher cell count.
2) Only 2 gallons in a 7 gallon fermenter? It will take a long time
to build up pressure with that much air space. Also -- lots of air
space is NOT a good idea in the fermenter.
3) Plastic fermenters are notorious for not having the best of seals
on them and making it difficult to get visible activity through an
airlock. With only 2 gals in the fermenter it is quite possible that
your fermentation is going on just fine, but that your CO2 is leaking
out around the seal before it can build up enough pressure to bubble
through the airlock.
HTH
Wassail!
Marc Shapiro http://www.bigfoot.com/~m_shapiro/
------------------------------
Subject: Questions galore
From: JGORMAN@steelcase.com
Date: 24 Jul 1998 12:58:34 -0400
I am a beer brewer that wants to step into the mystic realm of brewing mead.
I have a butt load of questions.
*Can mead be oxidized? (During bottling, transferring, etc.)
*Will racking and topping off with water lower the alcohol content?
*Should a yeast starter be made with honey, DME? (I used DME)
*Are the priming amounts the same as beer? (1tsp/12 oz., 1 cup/5 gal)
*Is it better to pasteurize the fruit with the honey or add during cooling?
*Is it true that WYeast (sweet) has trouble in traditional meads and needs a
lot of nutrients?
*Will mead violently ferment in the primary? Should you leave head space?
*Do you need to crash cool the must (like beer)?
*Are sweet or sour fruits better for melomels, or is it a taste thing? Are
some fruits better suited?
*How do you know if the campton tablets have done their job and has
dissipated?
------------------------------
Subject: Commercial Meaderies
From: Sparrow <druid@princeton.crosswinds.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:13:17
A friend recently asked if there were any commercial meaderies in the US. I
know that I have seen a list posted here a while back, but can't seem to
find it in any of my files. Would anyone out there know where I could find
a copy of that list out on the net?
- --
Alex (Sparrow) /|\ brewing on the web
http://www.crosswinds.net/princeton/~druid/index.html
------------------------------
Subject: Blueberry mead
From: "Thaddaeus A. Vick" <thadvick@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:56:37 -0400
>Fourth: anyone have a good BLUEBERRY mead recipe?
I made a gallon batch that came out pretty good, and got good
reviews from everyone I shared it with. I didn't use or write a recipe, I
sorta brew by the seat of my pants. I used I think a quart of medium
wildflower honey and five pounds of blueberries, fresh of the bushes in my
yard. I simmered the honey and water for a while, and then threw the
berries in and dumped it into plastic. Pitched montrachet the next day,
bottled when it stopped bubbling.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Thaddaeus Vick, Linguist to the Masses | thadvick@mindspring.com |
| |http://www.mindspring.com/~thadvick|
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "There are three things which are real: God, human folly, and laughter. |
| Since the first two surpass our comprehension, we must do what we can with |
| the third." -- The Ramayana |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Subject: juice/extracts
From: "Kurt Hoesly" <hoesly@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 14:57:11 PDT
Hello, everyone...
I have a question for you all...while in the natural foods store today
to get honey for my next batch of mead, I noticed a couple of shelves of
various fruit juices that were all labeled "100% fruit juice".
What amount of juice would be advisable to use in a batch of mead? The
two I'm most interested in trying are the cranerry and black cherry.
Both of them come in 16- and 32-oz. sizes; there were also smaller
bottles of cranberry extract (also 100% fruit) that were apparently
condensed juices. ("Mix 1/2 cup of extract in enough water to make 2
quarts" type instructions.)
Any input would definitely be welcome, since I don't want to just go at
it blind, and possibly come up with something undrinkable.
Thanks!
- -Kurt Hoesly
------------------------------
Subject: Strawberry mead
From: John Looney <John.Looney@hos.horizon.ie>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:00:55 +0100
Hi.
I've just put on a batch of divine smelling strawberry mead. Alas, I'm not
sure how long it will take.
There is a fair bit of honey in it. Because I don't have a measuring
scales, I had to make educated guesses. I made just under a gallon of must,
2 parts strawberries, 3 parts honey. I added this to just over a gallon of
water. Nice gloopy consistency. Because I value the flavour and strawberry
taste more than the alcohol, I decided to use some "Edme" "Ale yeast", so
it wouldn't over ferment. It seems to be flying away now.
What I was wondering was, how long should it be left for ? I've seen many
conflicting reports on this, and some people say three months, otherwise
the strawberry taste starts to fade, other say about 18 months is the best.
Being in a hurry to taste it, I'd prefer if three months was the right
answer ;)
Any ideas ?
Kate
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #688
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