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Mead Lovers Digest #0642
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #642, 5 February 1998
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #642 5 February 1998
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Alcohol-Water Mixtures and Boiling ("Marc Shapiro")
Dry mead transformation ? ("Spies, James")
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #641, 2 February 1998 ("Marc Shapiro")
Alcohol Water Mixtures ("Wallinger")
yeast nutrient recommendation (Chuck Wettergreen)
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #641, 2 February 1998 (Lourdes Mila)
Specific gravity ("Grant W. Knechtel")
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Subject: Re: Alcohol-Water Mixtures and Boiling
From: "Marc Shapiro" <mshapiro@mail.geocities.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:23:35 +0000
On reading the responses to my post by Wade Wallinger, Scott Murman and
Dick Dunn I have to conclude that sufficient accuracy can probably NOT be
reached by this method. Wade's responseactually left me hopeful that it
could work:
> Alcohol-water mixture display an interesting property. This is the
> classic example of an azeotrope (AY-zee-o-trope). An azeotrope is a
> mixture that reaches an equilibrium concentration of one component in
> another when boiled that cannot be reduced to zero by further boiling.
> For water and ethanol this equilibrium is reached when alcohol is at 4.5
> weight percent (per Lange's Handbook of Chemistry, 12th edition).
If, indead, we could count on the boiled solution to have 4.5% alcohol
then the method still works. Simply boil to half the volume, restore the
volume with water and determine the amount of alcohol from the drop. The
difference from the original posting being that this solution would still
have 2.25% alcohol in it, which would have to be added to the figure
arrived at from the difference in SG. (NOTE: If the amount boiled off is
not exactly half, then the figure of 2.25% would have to be adjusted,
accordingly.)
Unfortunately, things are not so simple as this, as is shown by the posts
by Scott Murman and Dick Dunn.
Scott points out an experiment by Maribeth Raines posted in HBD #1609 in
which she was able to reduce alcohol to about 2%, but not lower. Since
she says that this was a reduction of about 50% and this was in HBD, I am
assuming that this was done with a beer solution (although it may have
simply been alcohol and water mixed to a beer-like concentration -- I
have not looked up the actual posting in HBD).
Dick Dunn, on the other hand, ran his own experiment on reading the two
postings, above, and came to a different conclusion, entirely. He was
able to boil an alcohol and water solution of approximately 10% alcohol
down to less than 0.5% by his measurements, under one set of conditions.
Under another set of conditions, however, her had noticeable alcohol
remaining.
The posts of Wade and Dick refer to solutions of ethanol and water, but
have very different results. The experiment of Maribeth might be ethanol
and water, or might have been done with beer. In any case, we are getting
varying results under varying conditions. In order to make this method
work, we would need to be able to rely on getting consistant results every
time. Otherwise, with the variations that we have seen here, the final
result, even with an attempt at adjustment for residual alcohol as I
mentioned at the beginning of this post, could be off by as much as 2%.
While I would find an error of plus or minus 0.5% acceptable under most
conditions I can not accept an error of 2%. Unless we can find a way to
reliably reduce the potential error I must agree with Wade that this
method is not sufficiently accurate for MY purposes. If, of course, you
are not as picky as I can be and are not bothered by a potential error as
great as 2% then, by all means, use the table posted previously and the
adjustment that I mentioned. This will at least tell you if what you have
is beer strength, or wine strength (and strong, or week wine at that).
For many, this may be all that they require, but your taste buds should
be able to tell you that much without nearly as much effort.
HTH
Wassail!
Marc Shapiro mshapiro@geocities.com
Visit 'The Meadery' at:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1265/index.html
"If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old,
unless your wife shoots you."
- --Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Dry mead transformation ?
From: "Spies, James" <Jams@mlis.state.md.us>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:18:53 -0500
All -
I recently posted a question about the reluctance of my 5-gal batch of
cyser to clear. The main response was "let it sit !" So I did. As if
through some funky cosmic-brew wavelength, the mead began to clear on
its own within 3 days of my post. Hmmm. Makes you wonder. Is the
mead afraid? Did it hear me?
;-)
Anyway, the reason for my post: I racked the mead to tertiary at 3.5
months; fermentation has all but stopped, and tasted it. SG is .997.
Can you say DRY?!? Yow. I know many like this aspect, but I'd actually
prefer it a bit sweeter. Not cloyingly so, but not mouth-puckeringly
dry, as it is now. I don't plan to bottle for about another 2 months,
because the mead's still way too hot. I'd also like to make this a
sparkling mead. Is there any way to (1) add some sweetness/honey
flavor, and (2) do so while making the mead sparkling? Any hints would
be appreciated. With 5 gallons at stake, I'd like to make it as perfect
as possible.
BTW, having begun the "nip" thread a few weeks ago (thanks all for the
responses) you might be amused to know that it has made its way over to
the Homebrew Digest, and folks have been encouraged to browse back
MLD's. Perhaps this will stir up some much deserved interest in
meadmaking, eh?
TIA,
Jay Spies
Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #641, 2 February 1998
From: "Marc Shapiro" <mshapiro@mail.geocities.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:38:39 +0000
Dick Dunn pointed out tyhe error of Wade's posting and so I will have to
reverse my position which I posted back earlier today, but which did not
make it into MLD #641. I expect that both of my posts are together in
this issue. I made the error of trusting the person with the book to be
correct when I don't have my books in front of me. Thanks, Dick, for
correcting the misunderstanding. As soon as I read your post:
> You've gotten something way flipped around there. The azeotrope of
> ethanol and water contains mostly ethanol. (from CRC Handbook of
> Chemistry and Physics, 46th ed, the composition of the ethanol/water
> azeotrope at atmospheric pressure is 95.6% ethanol, 4.4% water).
things made a lot more sense. This conforms with what I had known from
before. Unfortunately, I did not put two and two together. The constant
boiling mixture is, of course 95.6% ethanol, as you said.
This being the case, we are still left with some varying results, although
not by as much. You said that you were going to continue your
experiments. Please do. If I had a narrow range hydrometer I would do
so, as well. If you can find a method that reliably removes alcohol to
less than 1% (or to any other amount repeatably) then we can still salvage
this method as a reliable way of determining alochol content when the
original SG is unknown.
Let us know what you come up with.
Marc
> It is demonstrably not hard to reduce the amount of ethanol in water to
> way below 4.5%.
>
Marc Shapiro mshapiro@geocities.com
Visit 'The Meadery' at:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1265/index.html
"If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old,
unless your wife shoots you."
- --Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Alcohol Water Mixtures
From: "Wallinger" <wawa@flash.net>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:25:37 -0600
Chuck King rightfully corrects me on the nature of the ethanol-water
azeotrope. I apologize to all who were taken in by my poor recollection from
college chemistry and chemical engineering classes. It was Chuck's
correction that led me to recall more clearly the unit operations lab where
we performed this very distillation in a pilot plant sized column.
But enough reminiscing. Let me put forward what I hope is a more accurate
description of what I think is going on.
The concentration of a component in the vapor space is a function of its
concentration in the liquid. Temperature is also a factor. Although the
boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure is 212 F, some water is
present in the vapor space at room temperature. Anyone with a pool in Texas
can tell you that the water must be going somewhere.
When ethanol boils from the mixture it also draws water vapor with it. The
sheer temperature at which ethanol boils is enough to cause measurable
evaporation. Yet the ethanol itself increases the vaporization of water
since it reduces the concentration of water vapor in the vapor space. The
ethanol, by reducing the concentration of water in the vapor space, in
effect draws more water out of the liquid. This effect is great enough that
it requires quite a bit of ethanol and water to be driven off before the
ethanol is reduced in the liquid significantly.
Again, I apologize for any confusion. I am glad I was not initially correct,
else we would not have whiskey to savor while admitting our faults!
Wade Wallinger
Kingwood TX
------------------------------
Subject: yeast nutrient recommendation
From: Chuck Wettergreen <chuckmw@mcs.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:04:13 -0600
In MLD #641 Lourdes Mila <lmila@smallworld-us.com> suggested:
Mead by the Gallon from a Beginner's Kitchen
<snip>
1 heaping table spoon of yeast energizer
<snip>
This is considerably more yeast nutrient than I have ever seen recommended.
Most texts I have seen recommend more on the order of 1/2 teaspoon per
gallon.
Chuck
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #641, 2 February 1998
From: Lourdes Mila <lmila@smallworld-us.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:02:43 -0700
Mead by the Gallon from a Beginner's Kitchen
>From Lourdes Mil=E1
Wow! I guess I need to make some corrections here ASAP. Thanks for all
your words of caution with respect to the use of 1 heaping tablespoon of
energizer in my one gallon recipes. I am informed that the quantity of
=BC to =BD teaspoon is the correct amount! The use of 1 tablespoon may
result in a metallic after taste I am warned. I did go back to my
recipes and searched out the authors and they say 1 tablespoon is the
amount that they have used! Go figure. I am amending my recipes none
the less to err on the side of caution!
Even though the fermenting activity was slow to start, it is now going
full blast. I am told that the process should take about two weeks
before it slows down. At that time, I was thinking of racking off into
another one gallon jug and topping off the Cyser with more apple juice.
Any thoughts? Should I use honey and juice? Should I leave it alone?
What about the Maple Mead, should I top that off as well? Would adding
more fluid help with the 'metallic' aftertaste? Will anything help at
this point?
Regards
------------------------------
Subject: Specific gravity
From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK@hartcrowser.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:49:27 -0800
The thread about specific gravity/alcohol content has me wondering:
Anyone do S.G.s using a volumetric flask and scale? A 100.0 ml flask and
scale accurate to 0.1 gram would allow measuring to 1 gravity unit, A
1000.0 ml flask to a tenth of a unit. For a liter the scale needs to
weigh to about 1.5 kg, more expensive but still doable. Temperature needs
to be repeatably measured at time of determination, 0.1 degree C should be
fine. Am I missing something? It wouldn't be the first time.
- -Grant
Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei
Des Moines, Washington
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #642
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