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Mead Lovers Digest #0645
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #645, 13 February 1998
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #645 13 February 1998
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Mead Lover's Digest #644, 12 February 1998 ("C.W. Hudak")
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #644, 12 February 1998 ("Burnette, Ollen--G3")
Wine bottles and chilly little yeasties ("C.W. Hudak")
No gravity change: responses (Mark Taratoot)
To Cap vs. To Cork ("Paul A. Hausman")
Re: Dry mead transformation (Marc, Shapiro@inetone.net)
fermented maple syrup ("Crystal A. Isaac")
Re: Heather Honey Experience? (Dan McFeeley)
Re: Grenade Recipes (GREATFERM@aol.com)
Re: MLD #644, Adding Chalk (GREATFERM@aol.com)
Mead from H*ll ("P. Dennis Waltman")
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Subject: Re: Mead Lover's Digest #644, 12 February 1998
From: "C.W. Hudak" <cwhudak@mail.adnc.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:05:48 -0800
Greetings Meadlings,
I've noticed alot of posts about the dreaded evils of aeration and
oxidation and am hoping to elicit some feedback.
Thaddeus writes:
> Not all crown caps are oxygen-proof. For beer this is not a problem
>because it is usually only stored for a few months at most but for meads,
>which may be aged for a year or more, this presents a danger of oxidation.
>If you cap your mead, make sure you get oxygen-proof caps.
I've actually read (hell, I think it was here on the digest) that *because*
crown caps are oxygen barriers, that it actually takes *longer* for the
mead to age properly. It was said that mead ages much better and faster in
corked bottles (which is my method of choice; I also bottle the bulk of my
meads in wine bottles and just a few in 12oz crowned bottles so I have some
to send to competitions). If you don't think that corks are air permeable,
ask the wineries that offer topping up service for very old wines that lose
volume during storage.
As a professional brewer (that's beer, not mead) I am well aware of the
effects that oxidation can have on my products. You are taught from an
early age (well, at least as a brewer) that air is bad EXCEPT at pitching
time. People bemoan the evils of HSA (that's hot side aeration for the
uninitiated) and caution you with the twinkle of experience and failure in
their eyes to "not splash the beer when siphoning" lest you get the dreaded
"wet cardboard" disease. There was even a very long and (yawn) boring
thread on the HBD (homebrewers digest) awhile back about designing the
perfect airlock which would allow zero oxygen to get through.
That said, I've noticed a certain lassaiz fair attitude in winemaking
circles of the effects of oxidation. One picture I saw in recent memory was
of a gentleman racking out of a cask. It showed him standing next to a
thick valve which was dumping out wine through a 4inch opening into a
container below it with much splashing and frothing. Winemakers sing the
virtues of wood aging which definately allows oxygenation of the must/wine
to occur while it sits in the casks or barrels. Oxidation is not only
acceptable, it is seemingly encouraged to some degree. I'm sure that these
guys know what they're doing and they're not making sherry so what gives?
Personally, I've stopped worrying about O2. I used to purge my carboys with
CO2 b4 filling; I don't anymore. While I don't splash the must around while
siponing, I am convinced that a little oxygen during aging is, oddly
enough, important for wines/meads in developing the complexities that we
desire through biochemical pathways which need oxygen.
I would be interested to hear any "experts" on wine or mead making step up
to the podium and comment on this one (Dick, are you listening?).
Charles
Charles Hudak in San Diego, California (Living large in Ocean Beach!!)
cwhudak@adnc.com
ICQ# 4253902
"If God had intended for us to drink beer, he would have given us stomachs."
- --David Daye
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #644, 12 February 1998
From: "Burnette, Ollen--G3" <BurnetteO@hood-emh3.army.mil>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:18:45 -0600
In MLD #644, Bob Farrell had questions regarding adding honey to
sweeten a dry .997 ginger metheglin and a .995 blackberry melomel.
> 1. Can I reduce/eliminate the possibility of exploding bottles by
> refrigerating my carboy for ? days to kill any remaining active yeast?
>
NO. Refrigerating your carboy will slow the action of any yeast
remaining, but will not kill the yeast. (liquid yeasts are frequently
kept refrigerated, they last a LONG time!)
> 2. When adding honey to sweeten, can I avoid camden tabs or
> filters.
> Is it possible to just boil or pasteurize a honey solution? By
> boiling, I
> would expect it to clear faster and add sweetness. By pasteurizing, I
> would
> expect some aroma addition. Are these assumptions correct?
>
Boiling or pasteurizing honey which will be added for sweetening will
avoid adding and new yeast to your mead, but will do nothing to any
remaining live yeast already in your mead. Fermetation in the must
stops when either: A) all available sugar is converted to alcohol, or B)
the alcohol in the must becomes concentrated enough to kill the yeast.
(this happens at different amounts of alcohol, depending on the alcohol
tolerance of the yeast) You did not specify what recipes you used, but
based on the dryness of your product, I would suspect your yeast
converted all the available sugar, and will go back to work when you add
more sugar, unless you do something to kill or remove the yeast.
(campden or filters).
Good brewing, and keep us informed.
Chip Burnette
Fermenter-at-large
------------------------------
Subject: Wine bottles and chilly little yeasties
From: "C.W. Hudak" <cwhudak@mail.adnc.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:15:27 -0800
On used wine bottles, Thaddeus writes:
> It is possible to get bottles for free
>by dumpster-diving behind restaurants, or if that's not to your liking you
>can try asking them to save them for you.
Ahhh, but drinking the wine is much more fun. That's where I get all mine ;/
Bob writes:
>1. Can I reduce/eliminate the possibility of exploding bottles by
>refrigerating my carboy for ? days to kill any remaining active yeast?
Hold it right there!! Step away from the fridge...
NO!!!
Sorry you can't kill the yeast by refrigeration. You may cause them to go
dormant but as soon as you warm those bottles up enough the yeast will
start working again.
>2. When adding honey to sweeten, can I avoid camden tabs or filters.
>Is it possible to just boil or pasteurize a honey solution? By boiling, I
>would expect it to clear faster and add sweetness. By pasteurizing, I would
>expect some aroma addition. Are these assumptions correct?
Generally, yes. If you pastuerized the initial batch and then boil a small
addition of honey, the whole batch won't clear faster. You still have a lot
of protein in solution. Boiling that small addition won't cause the whole
batch to clear faster.
Charles
Charles Hudak in San Diego, California (Living large in Ocean Beach!!)
cwhudak@adnc.com
ICQ# 4253902
"If God had intended for us to drink beer, he would have given us stomachs."
- --David Daye
------------------------------
Subject: No gravity change: responses
From: Mark Taratoot <taratoot@peak.org>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:19:25 -0800 (PST)
Howdy!
A couple of weeks ago (in MLD #639) I asked about a mead that
showed no change in gravity over a one month period even though
it was (visibly) actively fermenting.
I received three responses:
The first suggested that the initial reading was made before the
must was thoroughly mixed. Since this batch had already
fermented for a few weeks, and the gravity dropped significantly
before this initial racking, I don't think this is the answer.
However, there was a humorous anecdote that I did enjoy about
someone having this problem (insignificant mixing of the must
prior to fermentation)
The second response suggested that I measure the pH:
"If it's below 3.2, your yeast is probably stressed and not
working. Add calcium carbonate to bring it up to about 3.6 and
the fermentation may kick back in."
I discount this suggestion because the mead WAS fermenting
(visibly mixing up and giving off a slow but steady amount of gas
through the airlock). It just didn't show a drop in gravity.
The third response suggested that possibly my hydrometer is out
of whack:
"I've heard stories of people dropping or jarring their
hydrometer and causing the paper inside to move which would
result in false readings...."
This may be the case, but the hydrometer does read 1.000 in tap
water. I have not attempted to calibrate at any sugar
concentration other than zero, however. Perhaps this is my next
step.
I still think the most likely answer is that I added more honey
after the first racking and neglected to write it in my log book.
Hey, we all make a mistake now and then!
- --
Mark Taratoot
taratoot@peak.org
------------------------------
Subject: To Cap vs. To Cork
From: "Paul A. Hausman" <paul@lion.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:02:54 -0500
In Mead Lover's Digest #644, "Thaddaeus A. Vick" <thadvick@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>>From: Kate Collins <Kate.Collins@uidesign.se>
>>
>>Is there any reason why corking is better than capping or
>>vice versa (for sparkling and still meads)?
>
> Not all crown caps are oxygen-proof. For beer this is not a problem
>because it is usually only stored for a few months at most but for meads,
>which may be aged for a year or more, this presents a danger of oxidation.
>If you cap your mead, make sure you get oxygen-proof caps. And of course
>I assume that you know that if you cork a sparkling mead you must wire the
>cork down, the wire harnesses should be available from any homebrew supply
>house.
Nothing is totally "oxygen-proof".
There are two types of crown caps available, normal ones and "oxygen
scavenging". O2 scavenging caps absorb free oxygen that might have
been left in the head space of the bottle after capping. No one has
yet demonstrated to me that these really make much difference--yet
some swear by them.
I have always understood that all crown caps are *better* at excluding
O2 than corks. This makes sense. Corks are porous, caps are metal and
plastic. Plastic champaigne corks exclude O2 better than cork-corks but
less well than crown caps.
But maximum O2 exclusion not necessarily required for mead.
Beer is always dammaged by O2, due to the oxidation of hop compounds
and others peculiar to beer. The effect of small amounts of O2 on mead
is to impart particular "sherry-like" flavors which may or may not be
desirable (depending on the particular mead and your personal tastes).
- ----
Paul A. Hausman <paul@lion.com>
Lion Technology Inc., Lafayette, NJ, 07848 USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Dry mead transformation
From: Marc, Shapiro@inetone.net
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:51:23 +0000
> Subject: Dry mead transformation
> From: bob farrell <bfarrell@windermere.com>
> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:03:43 -0800 (PST)
>
> 1. Can I reduce/eliminate the possibility of exploding bottles
> by refrigerating my carboy for ? days to kill any remaining active
> yeast?
Refrigeration will not kill yeast. It may make them go dormant, but
the yeast will become active again when it warms up. Yeast are
really very resilient critters.
> 2. When adding honey to sweeten, can I avoid camden tabs or
> filters. Is it possible to just boil or pasteurize a honey solution?
> By boiling, I would expect it to clear faster and add sweetness.
> By pasteurizing, I would expect some aroma addition. Are these
> assumptions correct?
I avoid sulfites whenever possible, myself. When you are making your
must to start with, you can just heat the must to 150 F for about 5
minutes and that will kill off the wild yeast. That does not work,
however, when you are adding honey to sweeten the mead, unless you
have killed off the yeast in the mead, or removed it or otherwise
stabilized the mead. If you don't use sulfites and sorbate, or
sterile filter your mead, then adding honey is just going to give new
food to the yeast that are already there, even if you heat the honey
to avoid adding NEW yeast. (The exception to this, of course, would
be if your mead is already of an alcohol content which would inhibit
the yeast. If your mead has gone that dry, however, this is unlikely
and adding honey without further stabilization is likely to result in
bottle bombs.)
Marc
Marc Shapiro mshapiro@inetone.net
Visit 'The Meadery' at:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1265/index.html
"If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old,
unless your wife shoots you."
- --Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
------------------------------
Subject: fermented maple syrup
From: "Crystal A. Isaac" <crystal@pdr-is.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:11:13 -0800
I have fermented maple syrup alone, but not in a five gallon batches.
When I made gallon batches I mixed two quarts maple syrup (grade C dark
amber, bought at Trader Joe's *TM*) with two quarts water. I typically
fermented with mead yeast (sweet or dry, both worked well). On various
occasions I added spices including cinnamon, nutmeg, orange zest,
vanilla beans and cloves. I have added yeast nutrient and orange juice
although the yeast seem to do fine on their own.
I believe without evidence that you can scale up as much as you can
afford without difficulties.
The greatest problem is I don't know what to call the finished product.
Maple wine is more accurate than calling it maple mead, but the taste is
too odd for a wine and will shock your audience. I looked for a term for
this product when I first started making it about seven years ago and
could not find one. Suggestions?
Crystal A. Isaac (crystal@pdr-is.com)
From: "James Pokines" <pok1@midway.uchicago.edu>
Question: Has anyone experimented with fermenting maple syrup alone (no
honey or malt), and what are the proportions that you used per a 5
gallon batch?
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Heather Honey Experience?
From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:31:17 -0600
On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:53:12 "Wout Klingens" <wkling@knoware.nl> wrote:
>Does anyone out there has experience with heather honey?? I'm told that due
>to the strong taste and smell this honey should be suitable for a strong,
>high alcohol mead. I would like to make a plain mead, no herbs, no juice.
English sources on meadmaking seem in agreement that heather honey
is the best honey for mead but because of its strong flavor requires
an aging period of about eight years to bring it into balance. This
might be a spot of English bias on the writer's part, since there are
many other varieties of honey known to produce outstanding meads, and
with far less of an aging period needed.
Any other information, opinions, et. al. on heather honey?
__________
________
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
__________ __________
________ ________
Dan McFeeley, MA Riverside HealthCare
Behavioral Health Services Kankakee, Illinois
"Men think epilepsy divine, merely because they do not understand it. But
if they called everything divine which they do not understand, why, there
would be no end of divine things." - Hippocrates
------------------------------
From: Lourdes Mila <lmila@smallworld-us.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:18:05 -0700
Is there a rule for estimating alcohol content based on the FG?
Regards,
Lourdes Mil=E1
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Grenade Recipes
From: GREATFERM@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:26:04 EST
Every time I sell C.J.J.Berry's book, Home Brewed Beers & Stouts, I try to
remember to warn people about the Ginger Beer recipe. I can virtually
guarantee that it will explode if made according to the recipe. The latest
mead posting contains a very similar recipe, not quite as bad, since Cyril
says bottle after 48 hours, and this one says 4 days, but still dangerous this
time of year.
The problem is that ANY recipe which tells you to bottle after a set number of
days, is potentially dangerous. Exploding bottles are no joke. When I first
discovered Cyril's little bomb, fragments of glass were up against the garage
door, 40 feet from the site of the explosion.
Fermentation rates vary too much to say just how much time is necessary before
bottling is safe. Amounts of yeast, types and amounts of sugars, and
particularly temperature all affect sugar consumption rates. With a slow start
and a slow ferment, it is very easy to still have 50% of your sugar still
unfermented in 4 days, and a week later, and a little warmer....we're talking
up to 850 PSI here. And just because it works once, or even several times,
does not mean you can get by with it forever. Its like running a red light.
The Root Beer/Ginger Beer, etc., flavoring you buy at your local homebrew
store sidesteps the problem by bottling immediately with a small amount of
yeast, and refrigerating a week later. The yeast never has enough oxygen to
form a really large colony, as it would if it had 2-4 days to reproduce in the
air, and it gets further restrained by refrigeration.
Homebrew avoids the problem entirely, by fermenting to zero sugar, and then
adding a dose precisely measured to the amount of carbonation desired, usually
6 ounces of corn sugar for a 5 gallon batch. This gives you about 30 PSI. You
could do Ginger Beer the same way, but you will get a very dry product.
Jay Conner
Greatferm@aol.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: MLD #644, Adding Chalk
From: GREATFERM@aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:26:06 EST
In a message dated 98-02-12 09:57:31 EST, Matt Maples writes:
<< drop it .2 to about .63. I
have yet to test it again but here is my question. In the books I have read
they say that you should not add chalk too close to bottling as it will
take 3 months to fall out. >>
I assume you did not use Acidex, which is unfortunate, because it would give
you a possibility of removing Malic as well as Tartaric...but it is partly
chalk....
and the reason for the three month time period with Acidex is because of the
large amount of dissolved CO2 produced in the treatment process. My experience
with Acidex is that the chalk drops out by the next morning, is 90% removed by
an immediate racking, and 100% removed by another racking a week later. But
dissolved CO2 will take about 3 months to slowly work its way out.
In any event, you can see if the mead is clear enough to show, and any
dissolved CO2 will probably not be a problem to the judges, and may even add a
pleasant spritzyness. Alors ! C'est Petilliante !
Jay Conner
Greatferm
------------------------------
Subject: Mead from H*ll
From: "P. Dennis Waltman" <waltman@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:19:52 -0500
I have a mead made from a gallon of raspberry flower honey [roughly a 4
gallon batch]. It had not changed in gravity for 6-8 weeks at 1.015;
and has been in the fermenter since June. I used an ale yeast so a
1.015 final seemed right. I cannot get this one to clear at all.
I've tried, at a recommendation of some meadmakers, Chitosan Wine
finings. I tried chilling it to 35-40 degrees for 3 weeks. Recently
(in the last couple weeks) I've tried Sparkloid. And nothing seems to
work, it is just as cloudy, if not worse as it was before. I've had no
problem with flocculation of the ale yeast in beer.
I did not boil this honey and water, instead pasturizing it without
boiling. It was raw honey, perhaps I should have boiled and skimmed?
I made another mead at the same time. This one was again 1 gallon of
honey to 3-4 gallons of mead. It was raw star-thistle honey. I used a
wine yeast, Montrachet. It dropped to 1.000, and stopped, and was
cloudy. The Chitosan did not clear it, but the chilling and time seemed
to make it less cloudy so it is see-through but not sparkling clear like
my previous meads and cysers. this one was also raw honey.
Any help anyone can provide on this would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Dennis Waltman
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #645
*******************************
