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Mead Lovers Digest #0340
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #340, 17 August 1994
From: mead-lovers-request@eklektix.com
Mead Lover's Digest #340 17 August 1994
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
To heat or not to heat? Enzymes are the question! (Aaron Morris)
Digbie: Antwerp Meath (Joyce Miller)
Re: BOTULISM and HONEY (Michael P. Lindner)
Re: "Methanol" Reaction (Andrew W.J. Toler)
Re: botulism and honey (Jim Fownes)
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------------------------------
Subject: To heat or not to heat? Enzymes are the question!
From: Aaron Morris <SYSAM@albany.albany.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 94 08:41:32 EDT
Paraphrasing quite freely from a back issue of Apis, I wrote
up a sales blurble(?) that I include with honey I sell. It
speaks to the enzyme discussion going on.
"... Great care was taken in bottling the fruits of the bees'
labors to make sure that the honey meets guidelines es-
tablished by the Italian government (which takes honey
production very seriously)...
... a designation, whole virgin honey, the requirements
for which include a maximum water content of 18%, var-
ious diastase and HMF levels depending on kind of honey
being marketed, and that no product containing the honey
be heated above 45 degrees C (113 degrees F)....'
The heating concerns are due to the fact that there are
volatile enzymes in honey that evaporate at higher temper-
atures...."
Now, unless a consumer knows otherwise, it is a safe assumption that
the honey they are consuming has been heated and the volatile enzymes
have already been evaporated. It is a common practice to heat honey
during bottling to make it less viscous so it will flow nicely from
holding tanks to bottles. The only way one can be sure that the
enzymes are still there is to grow your own or know a beekeeper who is
concerned about preserving the enzymes and avoids high temperatures
when bottling the harvest. Unless this is the case, the discussion of
heating or not heating the must to preserve enzymes is moot, because it
is most likely that the enzymes are already gone.
------------------------------
Subject: Digbie: Antwerp Meath
From: jmiller@genome.wi.mit.edu (Joyce Miller)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 09:15:35 -0400
>From Kenelme Digbie, 1669:
Mr. Corsellises Antwerp Meath
To make good Meath, good White and thick Marsilian or Provence-honey
is best; and of that, to four Holland Pints (the Holland Pint is very
little bigger then the English Winepint:) of Water, you must put two pounds
of Honey. The Honey must be stirred in Water, till it be all melted. If
it be stirred about in warm water, it will melt so much the sooner.
When all is dissolved, it must be so strong that an Egge may swim in
it with the end upwards. And if it be too sweet or too strong, because
there is too much Honey; then you must put more water to it; yet so, that,
as above, an Hens Egge may swim with the point upwards: And then that newly
added water must be likewise well stirred about, so that it may be mingled
all alike. If the Eggs sink (which is a token that there is not honey
enough) then you must put more Honey to it, and stir about, till it be all
dissolved, and the Eggs swim, as abovesaid. This being done, it must be
hanged over the fire, and as it beginneth to seeth, the scum, that doth
arise upon it, both before and after, must be clean skimmed off. When it
is first set upon the fire, you must measure it first with a stick, how
deep the Kettel is, or how much Liquor there be in it; and then it must
boil so long, till one third part of it be boiled away. When it is thus
boiled, it must be poured out into a Cooler, or open vessel, before it be
tunned in the Barrel; but the Bung-hole must be left open, that it may have
vent. A vessel, which hath served for Sack is best.
<end>
------------------------------
Subject: Re: BOTULISM and HONEY
From: Michael P. Lindner <mpl@cmprime.att.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 9:13:25 EDT
anastasy.tynan@hol.com writes:
> An infant came down with botulism (sp?) from being
> breast-fed by her mother.
I have read that much of the honey we consume contains botulism spores. The
honey doesn't have enough water in it for the botulism spores to activate
and grow, and when the honey is consumed, an adult digestive system makes
quick work of them. Infants and young children (2 and under) do not have
the digestive nor immune systems to deal with the botulism and can become
sick.
For that reason, most books on feeding babies warn not to feed them honey.
I'm not sure what the deal is when making a mead. It seems to me that after
adding water, if the honey didn't ferment for a long time there would be
apossibility of the botulism spores activating, but I've never heard of such
a case, nor read anything that would suggest it to be so. So... don't
worry, have a cup of mead :^)
By the way, I noticed that among the list of herbs a few issues back was
wormwood. I read an article a couple of years back in Scientific American
about absinthe, a drink flavored with wormwood, and apparently it's mean
stuff. It is considered by be responsible for quite a number of people
experiencing psychotic episodes and eventually going mad. I believe it is
illegal in the U.S. to make absinthe.
--
Mike Lindner
mikel@attmail.att.com
(908) 576-2017
------------------------------
Subject: Re: "Methanol" Reaction
From: Andrew.W.J.Toler@Dartmouth.EDU (Andrew W.J. Toler)
Date: 16 Aug 94 10:41:32 EDT
--- You wrote:
> I have a friend who made some hard cider. He said that when he drank
> it his vision went grey, to the point of near blindness for the evening
> after two or three glasses. This effect wore off by morning.
> Is this methyl alcohol or some other nasty?...
If it was a normal fermentation of apple juice, then no, it's not methanol
(methyl alcohol). If he had fermented and then distilled it, that's an
entirely different matter; there's a plethora of traps for the unwary...
but let's assume he was smarter than that.
Fermentation will produce tiny amounts of methanol and all manner of other
weird poisonous stuff in minuscule amounts. But none of them are enough to
worry about--mainly because in order to get enough of any of them to do
more than contribute to your hangover, you'd have to drink so much that the
ethanol would do you in first.
One more thing: although methanol will produce blindness--and in higher
dosage, death--it's not a temporary/reversible thing.
I'd suspect your friend has some extraordinary sensitivity to something in
the cider.
--- end of quoted material ---
The friend may not have given you all the information, because he or she did
not think it pertinent, or just did not think of it. What kinds of
medications is the person taking? Psychiatric drugs, like lithium or
prozac, react strangely with alcohols. Other regular medications can, too.
Also, what allergies does this person have? Perhaps some strange pollens
lingered around in their cider. Perhaps the cider became mildly infected
with an allergy-causing strain of bacteria, or a mold. Perhaps they didn't
wash their glass?? Seriously, though, I think the methanol idea is not a
likely explanation, since as others have said, its effects are irreversible,
and its presence in high concentrations is highly unlikely in cider.
-Andrew
------------------------------
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271@appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 09:26:23 -0700
Subject: SKUNKED!
AAAAAAAAAAAAARARARRARARARARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGRGRGRGRGGGGGGGGGG!!!!
Skunked? Completely??? I am wounded to the core!
Every time I get to be thinking that I'm some sort of bitchin' mead
or brewing god, I get swatted back into my newly humble place. I
was SURE that I was going to get a complete set of mazer cups for my
troubles! Skunked? I think I'm going to go cry a little now...
In any case, I expect to hear recipes and secret tips on how to
make first class meads in this digest in the near future. And
congratulations on all of you who DID win awards in the mazer
cup competiton. You deserve it! God knows that I would have
deserved it if I hadn't gotten skunked!
Rich Webb
------------------------------
Subject: Re: botulism and honey
From: Jim Fownes <T027420@UHCCMVS.BITNET>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 94 10:07 HST
It's well-known that honey is not safe for infants.
Every book I've seen, and our pediatricians, recommend
against it in any quantity. Apparently, honey contains
spores of Clostridium botulinum, which are harmless to
adults but can cause botulism in children < 1 yr.
I'm no physician, but I would be surprised if the
bacteria were transmitted through the mothers blood-
stream to the breasts to contaminate the milk. I
think contamination of the skin is a far more likely
route. Since babies like to chew on your fingers,
even cooking with honey could be dangerous if you
didn't wash well. And small amounts of honey
could certainly be spread from the hands to the
breasts, too, so it could still be skin-transmitted
even if the mother swears the kid didn't lick or
suck on her fingers.
I'm not a food microbiologist, either, but I think
mead is too acidic for botulism to be a threat to adults.
Given that you have to pressure-cook non-acid vegetables
when you can them, hot water (170 F) alone is probably
not enough to kill the spores. But after all, those
of us older than 1 year eat honey in good health. And
why waste your beautifully aged mead on an infant who
just wants some milk before bed ;-)
Wassail
Jim Fownes
P. S. Hi 'Stas'! Next time you're in Kaneohe, stop in!
We'll crack open a bottle or two!
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #340
