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Cider Digest #2022
Subject: Cider Digest #2022, 6 April 2016
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #2022 6 April 2016
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Bottle Conditioning--Wild Yeast (Jay Kenney)
Re: Cider Digest #2021, 30 March 2016 (Jeff Alworth)
RE: Cider in the US Market (Ben Watson)
Re: Cider in the US Market Considered (Patti Wilcox)
RE: Cider Digest #2021, 30 March 2016 ("Richard Anderson")
Re: Bottle Conditioning--Wild Yeast (Blake Yarger)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Bottle Conditioning--Wild Yeast
From: Jay Kenney <kenney.jay@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 06:53:42 -0700
HI Blake:
I'm replying directly and to the digest, since others likely have opinions
on the topic as well. In my experience, yeast is an amazingly strong
organism, sometimes a little bit like cockroaches--been here a long time,
very hard to kill off completely. Since there's no way to know up front if
you can just add sugar, instead try it with a single bottle. Add a few
grams to a couple of bottles of cider, leave enough head space for the CO2
to develop, cap them, and leave the bottles in a warm place for 7-14 days.
Open and taste. If the yeast is still active, you'll have a fine bottle of
cider.
How much sugar to add and what variety of it is as much a matter of art as
it science. Take a look at Annie Proulx's and Claude Joliecoeurs' books
(and others) for information on the topic and of course scour the internet.
The range of sugar typically added is 2-12 grams per liter, but certainly
the higher end of the scale will require stout bottles (think champagne) to
prevent an unintended explosion.
"* Still. No priming necessary. *Perlant*. This is a very slight
effervescence for which 2 g/ L of priming sugar is required. Any type of
bottle may be used.
* *Pétillant* (aka crackling). Priming sugar required is approximately
6 g/ L. Use bottles that can handle some pressure, like beer or mineral
water bottles.
* *Sparkling*. A fully sparkling cider is like a champagne and will
produce a good foam when served. Full-weight champagne bottles are
required, as the internal pressure may exceed 100 psi. Use approximately 12
g/ L of priming sugar." *The New Cider Maker's Handbook: A Comprehensive
Guide for Craft Producers*, C. Jolicoeur, 2013.
Subject: yeast viability for bottle conditioning
From: Blake Yarger <blakeyarger@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 13:21:29 -0700
Greetings,
I have 60+ gallons of cider that I would like to bottle condition to about
3 bars, and I am wondering if I should add a fresh yeast culture at
bottling to ensure viable yeast will eat the priming sugar and carbonate my
bottles. A little bit about the cider... I pressed the apples in the first
week of December and fermented the juice in a used wine barrel. I did not
add yeast or sulfur, but the fermentation was very steady and clean. The
cider went dry in mid-January and finished with about 7% abv. I racked the
cider for the first time a week ago, and it is pretty clear. Since it has
been a couple months since the end of primary fermentation, should I add
yeast? Or can I just add priming sugar and trust the dormant yeast to come
back to life? From my research into sparkling winemaking and bottle
conditioning high gravity beers, it seems like adding a bayanus yeast
species is a good idea, but the purist in me likes the idea of finishing a
cider without ever adding anything to it besides the priming sugar.
Any thoughts or advice are greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Blake Yarger
- --=20
Jay P.K. Kenney
Map | Write | Ski | Ride
910 Gaylord St
Denver, CO 80206
303-656-9395
------------------------------
From: Peter Elderkin <elderkinsapples@accesswave.ca>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 16:49:20 +0000
A quick question re tanks
Is there disadvantages to using food grade plastic fermentors as opposed
to stainless steel tanks. Cost is dramatic but any other issues?
Thank you Peter Elderkin
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #2021, 30 March 2016
From: Jeff Alworth <jeff_alworth@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 20:43:00 +0000 (UTC)
On this question of cider and beer (from Nat West's article), I have a few
thoughts. This may be the ONLY thing I'm qualified to comment on. (When
I started writing about cider, I was informed--accurately and often--that
as a beer guy, I wasn't particularly qualified to write about it.)
Nat's probably right in the short term. You have to get your product into
the hands of future consumers, and to do that, you have to follow known
pathways. When the layperson thinks about cider, it tracks as far closer to
beer than wine. When we think about fine wine and craft beer, the qualities
that define the latter seem a lot closer to cider than the former. (Cider
is not headed on a trajectory that will result in $1000 bottles.)
But long term, it will, if successful, almost certainly evolve into its own
category. This sorta-like-beer phase is product infancy. You're attempting
to sell a product to a person who doesn't yet know she wants it; the act of
selling requires educating. The way we do that is by comparison--cider's
sorta like craft beer. Beer itself went through this phase, and if you're
looking at beer as an example, there's a lot to see there.
Initially, brewers were trying to make "crossover" beers--things that
Bud drinkers could recognize as "beer." The popular early types of beer
were golden ales, amber ales, pale ales, and porters/stouts. You still
see examples of these in the marketplace, but they represent a dead end
in terms of where the market was headed. Evolution follows a natural
course and emerges as a dialogue between the maker and the consumer. The
ciders made in Somerset, Normandy, and Asturias do not resemble each other
because the drinkers prefer different types of cider. This is especially
true with beer, where there are pockets where certain styles are popular
for no reason anyone could name. (Stout in Ireland, helles and dunkel in
Bavaria, cask ale in England, strange, yeasty ales in Belgium.)
That will happen with cider, too (again, if it's successful). The thing is,
there's no way to predict what ciders will be popular. Beer has evolved
in burst and starts, and along the way, many developments that looked
promising (super bitter IPAs, fruity wheat ales) fell by the wayside. Will
tannic ciders eventually be typical? Acidic? Still, sparkling? It's anyone's
guess. It will happen organically, as drinkers begin to find the types they
like, cideries respond by making more of it, and the process continues along.
Two cents from a longtime beer watcher--Jeff Alworth
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider in the US Market
From: Ben Watson <BWatson@chelseagreen.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 23:05:01 +0000
A few comments relating to Dick Dunn's post on the CD yesterday.
1. I'm skeptical about cider ever really getting big enough to become
recognized by most people as its own category. I wish that it would. But
in truth, from all of the historical research and reading I've done
over the years, I think that cider has always been treated or considered
akin to either beer or wine. There's always been this dichotomy between
"draft cider" (in the old days, literally draft cider drawn from the
barrel) and higher-end, more "sophisticated" large-format bottled cider
(at least since the 17th century in England, when coke-fired glass was
introduced that could withstand pressure/carbonation). The former was
common cider; the latter was the stuff that out-of-work noblemen fussed
around with, including all the things that we are now trying to re-learn
in America: the fermentation properties of different apple varieties,
the advisability of blending vs. single-variety juices/ciders. So none
of this navel-gazing that we're engaging in is really new. "Twas ever
thus," says Mr. Natural. Even the so-called "innovators" aren't really
doing anything that hasn't been tried before, at least in terms of
adding different flavorings and ingredients to cider. About the only
truly new development I can think of is the creation of "ice cider,"
which really only started a few decades ago in southern Quebec, inspired
by the lucratiive ice wine model.
2. I like crown caps as much as the next guy, but I'm not completely sold
on the statement that they are environmentally that much friendlier than
corks as closures for bottles. I don't feel strongly about one or the other,
but if managed wisely, cork is a renewable and sustainable resource. The
problem is the demand and quality of real cork.
3. A related point on environmental concerns. If we in the US were really,
truly concerned about making the cider industry ecologically friendly, we
would do well to take a lesson from the producers of Asturias in northern
Spain. One of the takeaways I had from my trip there in 2014 was that all
the producers in the association were using the same sturdy, 70 cl bottles
(corked), which are virtually unbreakable, and which they recycle -- not
just to the individual producer, but to ALL producers in the association. So
that there are pallets of returned bottles from all producers in a given
plant, which are then sanitized and relabeled. This only applies to Sidra
Natural, but it made we wonder if the US cider association would ever be
mature enough to set up some regional system where this kind of recycling
and packaging would be possible. Maybe, as Dick suggests, if everyone used
a standard size, like the 50 cl "bomber" or even better some size that's
unique to cider -- not the same size that craft brewers use -- we would
have a package that a consumer would associate immediately as "cider".
It's a bit depressing to think that the size and shape of the bottle would
be the determining factor. But sadly, that's what most people rely on. Not
the quality of the cider in the bottle, or can, but the size and style of
the container. I know many good ciders sold "like beer" in cans, and some
fancy wired cork-finished 750 ml bottled ciders that I would hesitate to
even pour down my kitchen sink. So my humble suggestion for the USACM: fund
a consumer preference study to determine what size and style of container
most says "cider" to people, and then try to actively try and define the
new style in the market. For instance, what is the most popular size from a
drinker's perspective? Is 500 ml more than two people would want to drink in
a single sitting? And I continue to think that the Sidra Natural packaging
model (sturdy bottles that aren't just sent to the recycling bin, but that
are truly returned, relabeled and refilled with cider) is something that
deserves much more study. The Spanish have the oldest cider making tradition
in the world, and we have much to learn from them. In my humble opinion.
Ben Watson
Francestown, NH
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider in the US Market Considered
From: Patti Wilcox <pjwilcox@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:01:43 -0400
Firstly, thanks to Dick for this lovely digest. We're commercial ciderists
in NY (Awestruck Ciders) and always enjoy these installments of insight and
curiosity from other makers.
Secondly, I thinks thanks is due to the aforementioned for his
thought-provoking thoughts on Nat's thoughts in his thought-provoking
article. Your thoughts inspired us to think about sharing our thoughts as
well.
We hold no disdain and also no fear for the "big boys" (AO, AB, MC) here in
the US. (Mirroring Dick's trusted UK counterpart's opinion).
FMBs (Flavored Malt Beverages) lose 70% of their customers year over year.
Now, how's that for thought-provoking?
I believe this loss is due to two main causes:
1.Education
2. Palate development
I also must at this point confess to being a former FAN of drinks like
Smirnoff Ice, Mike's Hard Lemonade, etc. Now I'd rather try getting drunk
on water. Not from a sickly memory of over-indulgence, but rather just
because I no longer enjoy it. I know too much about the industry and
I've grown to prefer other tastes. I believe a similar change takes hold of
the majority of consumers (cough 70% cough, cough) on an annual basis.
So, if anyone is willing to spend millions (billions?) recruiting new
drinkers to the category of hard cider just to watch them disappear to our
side of the fence in a year's time, that's all the better for us.
Our best ammunition in the years-to-come of market-share-battle will be
unity. No more shaming of what's different, and especially no more
embarrassing consumers over liking whatsoever they might like. Rather,
it's our duty to support one another and unite in everyway possible to
tackle issues #1, Education and #2 Palate development. Because while we
may not have massive advertising budgets, as a unified entity of Craft
Cider makers, we have the capacity to educate consumers face-to-face and
glass-by-glass on what makes us each unique and awesome as individual
makers, and on what a diverse smorgasbord of pleasure the hard cider
industry has to offer.
Patti Wilcox
Awestruck Ciders
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #2021, 30 March 2016
From: "Richard Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 09:51:57 -0700
Dick's note about Nat's proclamation about cider is the new craft beer
brought back a lot of what we went through "back in the day". This is
nothing new, craft cider or otherwise has always been in the beer section. I
started out bottling in 22's and was shunned for my disregard of using a
traditional 750. 22's were half the price and weight of 750's. They held
nearly as much and could be capped, plus it was difficult to find a 750 that
would take carbonation and most container distributors did not want to talk
to you unless you wanted a truck load. One of our goals was to put cider
into "white table cloth" restaurants, ironically one of the first
legislative changes our cider association pursued was a growler bill. I
will concede that the change to cans while not particularly aesthetically
pleasing are greener. Times have changed. We have moved beyond the beer
cooler and onto the shelf and show up on some very nice tables in 750's.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bottle Conditioning--Wild Yeast
From: Blake Yarger <blakeyarger@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 11:23:17 -0700
Hi Jay,
Thanks for the advice. Next year, I am going to do single bottle
experiments, as you suggest. This year, I ran out of cider to top my
containers, so I went ahead and bottled early. I split the cider into
different batches. I tried a few different rates of priming sugar addition
(from 4g/L to 8g/L of organic cane sugar from Whole Foods), dry hopping
(I've had the most success with Citra), and a small sulfur addition
(<10ppm) to a keg that was smelling acetic. I bottled some of the cider
with a yeast inoculant, and some with only the priming sugar addition.
After about 10 days, I opened a bottle that was inoculated and got 6g/L
sugar. It was exactly what I was hoping for! The cider without inoculation
was also delicious, but I think the bottle fermentation had only just
begun. I'm going to wait another month before I try the next bottle. I
probably didn't need the yeast inoculant and could have had success with
just the wild yeasts, but the quick carbonation is nice. I wonder if the
inoculated bottles will have significantly more sediment.
Best,
Blake
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #2022
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