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Cider Digest #2014
Subject: Cider Digest #2014, 21 January 2016
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #2014 21 January 2016
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Subject: Re: Books From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com> (diandian3@cs.com)
Re: Cider Digest #2013, 16 January 2016 (Nathan Shackelford)
RE: Cider Digest #2013, 16 January 2016 ("Nancy")
TTB and CIDER Act questions (paul baker)
Re: Line items for building a start-up budget (Andy Crown Brennan)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Subject: Re: Books From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
From: diandian3@cs.com
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 20:55:21 -0500
Dick asks for advice on book reviews.
I have one suggestion:
I recommend that a single book is chosen, (by Dick or others).
A book is "open" far as long a there is sufficient reviews and honest reviews
of its strengths and weakness.
Then Dick can close that book and open another.
Reviews on topics could follow the "twitter rule" of 140 characters.
Topics would be categories of interest. IE Grinding, Pressing, Chemistry,
varieties, etc.
Reviewers could open a new category or comment on a previously category.
Comments are reviews that would indicate that the book is helpful, critical
or supportive or possible errors in the reviewers' opinion etc.
Again the format is category and then comments at 140 characters.
Ken at diandian3@cs.com
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #2013, 16 January 2016
From: Nathan Shackelford <nathan@shackelford.org>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 08:31:32 -0600
Re: Books
I've been a member of GoodReads website for a while. We could make a Group
and post books there for discussion or use polls to show favorites among
the users. I have decent cider library myself, and found reviews on Amazon
to be my first resource for weeding out less helpful/ problematic cider
books.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #2013, 16 January 2016
From: "Nancy" <nancyi@crocker.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 11:42:38 -0500
cider apple prices?
From: bob sorenson <bob.sorenson@wasatchacademy.org>
Do these figures seem reasonable?
Bob Sorenson
Central Utah
Hi Bob,
We have just returned from a cider tasting tour of New Mexico (your
neighboring state). We visited 4 of the 5 ciderys and I will report on 2 of
them. Cidery 1 is also a grower, he needs more apples than he grows. He
refused to pay the asking price of $0.35/lb and offered to buy apples for
$0.20/lb and was told that they would rather let them rot. He ended up
making less cider than he needed. Cidery 2 also refused to pay the New
Mexico price of $0.35/lb and ended up buying apples from Washington.
My conclusion is that western ciderys are unlikely to pay you $1/lb for
apples no matter how good they are. Hobbyists may be another story.
Best Regards,
Rick Intres
Ashfield, MA
------------------------------
Subject: TTB and CIDER Act questions
From: paul baker <paul.outlawspike@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 09:36:48 -0800
So I'm a Cidery in Planning and am gathering all my info for my TTB
paperwork and my Wine Bond and also trying to pin down my cost per unit and
one of those line items in the amount of excise tax.
There also doesn't seem to be a solid Step 1, Step 2, Step 3 for all of
this and the TTB hasn't been overly helpful. So I wanted to throw it out to
the group and see if you could help me get some things nailed down.
The current definition of hard cider is still (uncarbonated) and under 7%
ABV which is where you can use the $0.226 tax rate plus small producer
credit? Is this changing with the Cider Act passage?
Is everyone who is making cider with bubbles paying the $3.30/$3.40 per
gallon tax and thats just the cost of doing business? I mean its fine if it
is and all I just want to know if there is just something I'm misreading.
Has the TTB process been for everyone else been set up your business, buy
all your equipment, have a building you own or rent, THEN put in your TTB
paperwork and wait 3-6 months to see if you're allowed to produce?
Once again. If I'm misreading then set me back on course, I just am trying
to gather what expectations I should be having.
Thank you all for your assistance.
Paul Baker
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Line items for building a start-up budget (Dick Dunn)
From: Andy Crown Brennan <CROWNARTS@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2016 09:59:25 -0500
[Janitor's note: As Andy says, this came from a PDF so there may have been
some burps in getting it into plaintext.]
The list below was a PDF from a talk proposed by Steve Gougeon for Cider
Days, which we lead together for a few years. It shows basic costs of
starting a "micro winery", which in the State of NY, is defined as under
1,500 gallons per year. Note a "farm winery" allows you to produce up to
150,000, so if you plan to grow then I would suggest getting the farm
winery right from the start. In the same line of thinking you might also
start with the "bigger bottler" (for example) if you plan to grow. The
lesson here: Know what size you want to be before anything else.
Also note that some items listed below I don't personally use but they are
there because I assume most people will want them. And I've excluded some
things a micro-cidery won't need but I treasure (like my lovely Race
Labeler!)
Remember to include lots and lots of space for bottles in your cidery plan.
And if I can plug my favorite purchase so far: The Coolbot. It's apple cold
storage and tank chiller all at once. For $1,200 or so you can have a
walk-in cold room. Thanks, Andy Brennan
*THE FOLLOWING SHOWS SAMPLE START-UP COSTS FOR A MICRO-CIDERY*:
Production of 600gal =3000 bottles per year. (Note- prices as of 2011)
Broken into 3 categories:
Corks bag of 1000 $140, Wire cages box of 2700 $150, Crown Caps bag of 1000
$130
-Corks and cages x3 = $590
Capper/ Corker Italian Floor corker (w/ swing arm)
-Corker x2 = $300
Bottle Filler (Enola vacuum filler) $350
-Filler = $350
Filtration Filter unit w/ filters (Enola compatible filter $?)
-Filter = $?
Bottles / Kegs Champagne Glass (+/-) $12/ case, + $700 shipping
-3x pallets plus shipping = $4000
Labels peel-off stickers (need front and back) 20 cents per bottle
-Labels= $700
Apple Juice 50% bought (at $3/ gallon) plus 50% grown (free-ish) totaling
600 gallons
-Must= $900
Additions: Yeast, SO2, nutrient, finings, sugar, ingredients ($?)
-Additions= $? (Probably about $200)
Fermenting vats 55 gallon plastic (x12) $60 + $400 shipping
-Tanks= $1100
Aging tanks/ barrels used oak barrels (optional, or reuse primary) $120 (x12)
-Barrels= $1440 (optional)
Pumps: Vino transfer pump with prefilter $150, or (better) 1" impeller pump
$350
-Pump= $350
Misc. small items: airlocks, hoses, etc.
-Misc= $200
*EQUIPMENT TOTAL= $11,000 +\-*
Federal TTB $1000 license and yearly tax at $1.07/gal. (-$.90/gal. for
small winery = $.17)
-Fed= $1200
State (NY): farm winery $175, excise/ sales tax $.30cent/gal= $180, Sales
tax 8% =$700
-State= $880
Lab analysis: Virginia Tech wine analysis $100
-Lab= $100
Markets, x2 local farmer's market fees $150/ season
-Market fees= $300
Insurance on building, product $1600/ year, federal bond $100
-Insurance= $1700
LLC by lawyer $1500, or DBA file = 30$
-Legal= $1500
*WHITE COLLAR CRIMINAL TOTAL= $4000 +\-*
Building Rent (or taxes on facility if owned) $800/ mo
-Rent $9600
Sinks/ Plumbing 3-bay sink, faucets, plumbing upgrades $1000
-Plumbing compliance $1000
HVAC (?), Rigid Insulation $400, AC $400, Coolbot $300, electric heaters $100
-Temperature control= $1200
Plastic panels, light covers, sealant, GFCI outlets, etc.
-Food safety compliance $400
Utility (electric) at $100/ mo.
-$1200 (per year)
Locks $20, motion detector lights x2 $180 (optional camera system $1200 and
dogs!)
-Security= $200
*FACILITY COSTS= $13000 +\-*
****
*TOTAL COSTS= $28,000 +\-*
Note that some expenses are yearly while the majority are one-time and can
be spread out through multiple years.
Thanks, Andy Brennan
- --
Aaron Burr Cider
Hudson Valley/ Catskills NY
845.468.5867
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End of Cider Digest #2014
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