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Cider Digest #2047
Subject: Cider Digest #2047, 11 November 2016
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #2047 11 November 2016
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Fermentation Qs (Claude Jolicoeur)
To Martha Teal (Kenton Erwin)
Re: Fermentation Qs (Andy Crown Brennan)
TA and pH? (Phillip Kelm)
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Subject: Re: Fermentation Qs
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2016 13:49:35 -0500
In CD #2046, Josh Kellermann, Subject: Fermentation Qs:
> 1. A few carboys of cider never fully fermented, leaving a fairly sweet
> cider. I left them in bulk storage (airlock in glass carboy) after 1
> racking hoping they would pick up fermentation again, but never did
> (finally bottled a full year after pressing). Seems like I got the results
> of a french cider without any of the complication. I'd love to replicate
> the process - any thoughts on getting a semi-sweet without doing any work?
> :-) Maybe I just had some wimpy natural yeast in that batch?
Josh, more likely, you simply had apples that naturally were low in
nutrients.
This often happens when using apples from old unmaintained trees, or
from wild trees.
To replicate this, you need to do an early racking and often a second
raking later on to stabilize the cider.
This is "normal procedure" as far as I am concerned... All details are
in my book.
> 2. I lost about 40 gallons to film yeast. Any thoughts on avoiding film
> yeast without sulfiting?
Keek air out, and don't leave any headspace in your carboys. Check
regularely your air locks to insure they don't let air in.
However film yeast don't normally ruin a cider - you can remove it and
fill your vessels to the top. Adding sulfite also helps in preventing it
from coming back.
Claude Jolicoeur
Author, /*The New Cider Maker's Handbook
<http://www.chelseagreen.com/the-new-cider-makers-handbook/>*/
http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/
------------------------------
Subject: To Martha Teal
From: Kenton Erwin <kenton.erwin@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 11:02:41 -0800
Thanks for your email response. I'm looking for bins about 25-30 lbs. I
think I'll get them from Thunderbird Plastics in B.C. Canada. I'm hoping to
piggyback onto an order by a large food processing company in Vancouver WA
(if they order again this winter), for a lower price. If that doesn't work,
I'll just order by myself.
Thanks again!
Kenton
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Fermentation Qs
From: Andy Crown Brennan <CROWNARTS@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 09:02:55 -0500
Hey Josh
Struggling natural fermentation can leave an acetone/ metallic note that
can sometimes be blown off by "starting over" with a good amount of fresh
juice and the lees (left-over from a healthy batch) plus temperature. That
is, if you want it dry. But in French Canada and in Central Europe I have
witnessed an appreciation for such naturally semi-sweet or stuck ciders
that we in America throw-out with the bathwater for having a nail polish
remover component. (And obviously the Spanish have developed a taste for a
different "issue" in their ciders too.)
*Ultimately the key to having natural products in the U.S. market depends
on our expectations*. (Thanks Elizabeth for stating it so concisely.) And
then courage to put it out there. We live in a country that generally
stigmatizes oddness and that's one reason the cider market (both high and
low) is dominated by clean ciders. There's pressure. And I confess, I still
buy yeast and SO2 for certain batches because I get scared.
Changing our expectations doesn't mean abandoning standards. Certain
natural notes can be distasteful! And hygiene in the cellar is still the
best combatant to letting all Hell break loose. But if we slowly and
steadily explore the world of oddities with observed measures maybe we can
grow a cultural appreciation for natural ciders. There are parallels here
to the fight over ugly eating apples: Some claim that by looking beyond
scab, fruit size, or shape we can promote an apple that has improved
benefits.
As for your film yeast ciders. I would still bottle it with careful racking
(not to stir or suck the film up) and see what you got after time in a
bottle. Maybe it's not bad? I have a barrel with a surface yeast akin to
blue cheese that my thief declares OK down there.
Andy Brennan
Hudson Valley/ Catskills NY
------------------------------
Subject: TA and pH?
From: Phillip Kelm <phil_kelm@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 19:02:57 +0000 (UTC)
I have two tanks of cider fermenting slowly. Both show an increase in pH
and a decrease in TA, but one especially. Why would this be and is there
a concern with any harmful bugs? The one I'm more concerned about went
from 3.45 pH to 3.73! Both are only about 20% fermented. I'd like to
relax and let them continue on, but I need to mix them into one tank.
Any idea what may be going on?
Phillip Kelm-
www.GitcheGumeeBreweryServices.com,
Worldwide Brewery Installation & Engineering Services;
Manager of Palau Brewing Company,
Home of Red Rooster Beers;
Owner of Gitche Gumee Ciderworks,
Feral Ciders from Michigan's Upper Peninsula.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #2047
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