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Cider Digest #2003
Subject: Cider Digest #2003, 20 November 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #2003 20 November 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
RE: fermentation ("Cline, Shane K.")
Interesting cider related video (jamie edwards)
Ice Cider Concentration in Bulk Plastic Totes (Danny Connors)
Reply to "Question: Old Farm Orchards" CD#2002 ()
RE. Fruit Flies (William Grote)
Line items for building a start-up budget (Ann Torrence)
RE: 1-gallon glass jugs ("Tom Bashista")
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: RE: fermentation
From: "Cline, Shane K." <Shane.Cline@hdrinc.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 17:25:02 +0000
Hi Ted. I'm sure you'll get lots of responses. Stuck fermentations happen
pretty regularly. But I would check temperature, and yeast viability.
Nutrients can also be a problem especially if you get apples from a home
orchard that is not fertilized. If nutrients are the limiting factor,
there is almost always some fermentation for a couple of days but does not
ferment to dry. But it sounds like you've already added yeast nutrients
so that probably is not your problem.
Temperature should be between 60 and 80 degrees. Obviously the lower
the temperature the slower the ferment. That is not to say that you won't
get fermentation at 59 degrees, but it will take a long time and the wild
yeasts may over whelm your cultured yeast.
If your temperature is in the right range, I'd suspect yeast. Maybe you
got a packet of yeast that was not handled correctly (stored to hot/cold,
too long etc.) and did not have enough viable yeast to get things going.
Rather than go through a whole process to determine yeast viability,
most people spend the buck and a half to repitch their yeast. Make sure
to read the instructions as some yeasts require you to "rehydrate" prior
to pitching. A second alternative would be to use a pretty vigorous yeast.
I've used lavlin EC-1118 to restart a stuck fermentation. EC-1118 has the
added benefit of having a wider temperature range than most 45-90 degrees.
One last thing you might do. Try taking a quart of must and pitching
the yeast (champaign or EC-1118) in that quart. Let it sit over night
or 24 hours and you should have a very active fermentation. You should
have a visibly active culture and you can pitch directly to your carboys.
That should get things going. Or you could just start with this step.
Good luck.
Shane, Oregon (born in Toledo Ohio)
------------------------------
Subject: Interesting cider related video
From: jamie edwards <jamie@bar-i.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 16:54:00 -0700
...Not sure if this video makes the grade for
the digest but if nothing else I'm confident you'll enjoy watching the
video. Scroll down the page a little then start the video. The article is
from my local paper.
http://www.cheddarvalleygazette.co.uk/Roger-Wilkins-video-Cider-agricultural-lub
ricant/story-27998158-detail/story.html
- --
*Jamie Edwards*
*970-688-1134*
------------------------------
Subject: Ice Cider Concentration in Bulk Plastic Totes
From: Danny Connors <danny@rogue.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 15:55:48 -0800
Does anyone have experience using large plastic totes (250-300 gal) to
concentrate juice for ice cider?
- --
Danny Connors
Cidermaker
Rogue Ales and Ciders
------------------------------
Subject: Reply to "Question: Old Farm Orchards" CD#2002
From: <lotic@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 04:50:23 -0500
Regarding fruit flies:
Fruit flies are more than just a nuisance. They can carry bacteria that
can mess up your cider.
I get a few in the mill when I press. They are attracted by fruit and
fermentation.
I too am leery of vinegar. In fact, I don't allow it in my mill. Again,
the risk is infection of the cider.
Perhaps that's an abundance of caution, but it's an easy rule to follow.
The first line of defense is hygiene. When you're done pressing and
everything is in the tanks, get the fruit out of there.
And, I don't mean, "into another room". I mean, "out of the building".
Then, wash everything. Hit the grinder and press with a pressure washer,
then soap and water. Get off even the staining from the pommace.
Pay extra attention to wood. It acts like a sponge and holds juice pretty
well. Don't forget floor drains, especially after racking.
Fruit flies will be attracted to the smell of fermentation. So, I put a
few traps around my tanks until I stop catching them. They usually
disappear after a hard freeze or when the cider really starts to dry.
That's the lecture, here's the trap design:
My traps are simple:
Get a clear jar. Make a cone out of cardboard (a cereal box works well).
Make the hole at the end of the cone really small (fruit fly sized). Put
~100ml of sweet cider in the jar. Put the cone in the jar. Tape the cone
in place to seal any gaps around the jar (if necessary). Place near tanks
(close to the airlocks is best as that's going to attract them). Look in
the jar every day to see what you caught. Dump, rinse, and refill the jar
every week until you don't catch anymore flies. For me, that's right
about now.
Sweet cider as a bait works pretty well and we all have some. It will
start to ferment on its own (increasing attraction). But, since I dump it
weekly (or so), it doesn't turn to vinegar or start to rot. Sometimes (if
I think of it) I'll add a few drops of liquid soap to the cider in the
trap. The theory is that the soap breaks up the surface tension and the
flies are more likely to drown. It does seem to increase the capture
rate.
That's the trap, but keeping the place free of fruit and clean is the
best defense.
Peter Mitchell
Headwater Cider
------------------------------
Subject: RE. Fruit Flies
From: William Grote <wgrote@me.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:21:45 -0500
RE. Subject: Question
From: Old Farm Orchards LLC <oldfarmcider@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 17:33:49 -0500
Has anybody else dealt with fruit/vinegar flies? My fermentation room
is in my barn and is now teeming with numerous fruit/vinegar flies.
What is the best way to get rid of them without putting the cider at
risk? Are vinegar traps outside of the fermentation room but in the
barn too risky? Thanks.
I find that adding a small, single drop of liquid detergent to a open 12
oz cup of cheap white wine with a little apple juice thrown in will
catch 1000s of flies. The soap softens the surface tension of the
liquid and they sink when trying to drink. I have read that they are
also attracted to fermenting liquids by the C02 so you could add a pinch
of yeast.
William Grote
bembel@gmail.com
------------------------------
Subject: Line items for building a start-up budget
From: Ann Torrence <ann@anntorrence.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:34:13 -0700
We are starting to crunch the numbers to see if a cidery is viable in
our southern Utah location*. It wasn't our original plan when we started
planting cider fruit, but I think we'd regret it if we didn't at least
explore the idea. As I'm building the mother of all spreadsheets, I'm
hoping that those who've "gone pro" can share some hard-won experience on
things you budgeted for:
1) Best purchases
2) Things in the category "Don't bother/hold off until later" that you
thought you needed right away
3) Items you wished you'd budgeted for right away that you acquired later.
We (my husband and I) aren't trust-funders, so please keep it
realistic. We do understand that having only 90% of the necessary
start-up capital is a recipe for 100% failure, and that good planning is
essentially free.
I'm sure others will be interested in a general response. I'm not asking
for spreadsheets and sales forecasts, just specific line items for the
expense side of the equation. Thanks,
AT
*We live in Torrey, Utah, the gateway town to Capitol Reef National
Park. We have 500 cider trees in the ground, as far as we know, the only
cider orchard in the state. And while Utah's liquor laws give us
a lot to snicker about, the local reception to the concept has been
heart-warmingly positive. Our biggest obstacle will likely be finding a
venue with culinary water rather than cultural politics. It's
likely doable, but Torrey's culinary water system has a very
limited growth capacity and folks are rightfully cautious about issuing
new connections. The good thing is the water system will never support
rampant growth like Moab, which is one reason we like it here.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: 1-gallon glass jugs
From: "Tom Bashista" <skyline@crocker.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:27:46 -0500
Subject: 1-gallon glass jugs
From: Josh Kellermann <joshkellermann@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:58:12 -0500
Do folks have any experience bottling still cider into 1-gallon glass jugs
with metal screw on caps?
Again, these will be still ciders.
Curious as to whether they seal well enough for at least a year of storage
and if I should be aware of any other issues with using them.
Seems like a pretty economical way to store large amounts of cider with less
bottling work (local glass distributor sells em for $3 a piece).
Thanks!
Josh Kellermann
The Catksills
I have been using glass beer "growlers" for my still hard cider for years
with no problems. They store for a year or more. I have found the metal
caps tend to stick after a few uses due to the paint wearing thin. The
screw top is the same as what we use for our plastic cider jugs, so I
usually use those caps when that happens.
Tom Bashista
Bashista Orchards
Western Massachusetts
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End of Cider Digest #2003
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