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Cider Digest #2013
Subject: Cider Digest #2013, 16 January 2016
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #2013 16 January 2016
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: ussurien pears (Claude Jolicoeur)
Green bell pepper / MethoxyPyrazine (Gertsen-Schibbye Sigrid)
Getting started as a farm cidery ("Meadowlark Farm")
cider apple prices? (bob sorenson)
Re: Books (Dick Dunn)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Re: ussurien pears
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 23:20:50 -0500
In Cider Digest #2012, Akiva Silver wrote:
> Subject: ussurien pears
>
> Does anyone have any experiences growing Ussurien pears either as a
> rootstock or out as a seedling?
> Has anyone tried making perry with Ussurien seedlings? I am also interested
> to hear of their growth, I am really hoping to grow pears that can get huge.
I have one that was started from seed about 25 years ago. Nice, winter
hardy, strong, vigorous and sturdy tree.
The fruit is absolutely horrible, one of the worse things I have put in
my mouth... I did one press test: SG 1.047, TA 31 g/L as malic, and so
bitter and astringent. It would be interesting to measure the tannins -
would certainly be extremely high. If you really want to use this in
cider or perry, don't use much of it as it is so potent it could easily
render a batch undrinkable...
And as of << to grow pears that can get huge >>, I hope you are young and
have the secret to live very old - they need 100 years or more to get to
their full size... Your great grand children will have better chances to
see this!
Claude Jolicoeur
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Subject: Green bell pepper / MethoxyPyrazine
From: Gertsen-Schibbye Sigrid <sbriand@lallemand.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:18:04 +0000
Hello Josh,
Brock University in Canada did quite a bit of research on the Multi-Coloured
Asian Lady Beetle in the early 2000's as in 2001 the MA Lady Beetle moved
up the Ohio valley into the Niagara area.
Apart from the green bell pepper aroma comments, there was also a 'rancid
peanut butter' aroma descriptor.
In any case, 1 little lady beetle could contaminate 20litres (5 gallons)
or more with the off-aroma, so if you had them around your fruit when
harvesting, there could be some good chances the IBMP aroma you are
picking up is due to them. There were no easy options to get rid of the
aroma either, if I remember correctly.
Cheers,
Sigrid
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Subject: Getting started as a farm cidery
From: "Meadowlark Farm" <tom@themeadowlarkfarm.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:14:51 -0600
We would like to start a small cider production and sales operation at our
you pick peach and apple orchard here in Kansas. We are in the process of
getting all the permits and making plans. Our plan is to produce and sell
cider at our farm as one component of a larger local produce/ pumpkin patch
agritourism operation. We plan on selling draft cider on site as well as
into growlers. Our cider so far is not very sophisticated; just a dry,
vaguely apple flavored, refreshing drink for warm weather. (Just the thing
after picking peaches on a hot August day) We are targeting around 3000
gallons of cider per year as our sales goal after 3-4 years and are creating
a list of hardware and facility investments that would accommodate this
volume.
Are there folks out there in the US cider business who would be willing to
share their experiences with me over a phone conversation or two? I am
interested in recommendations on both processes and equipment and also to
hear about other peoples' experiences with starting and making money from a
small cidery that focuses on direct, on farm retailing.
If so, please feel free to send me an email at tom@themeadowlarkfarm.com
with your contact information and I will give you a call.
Tom Brown
Meadowlark Farm, LLC
11249 SW 160th St. Rose Hill Kansas 67133
cell: (316) 518-8907
https://www.facebook.com/MeadowlarkFarm
webpage: www.themeadowlarkfarm.com
"Fiat Fructus!"
------------------------------
Subject: cider apple prices?
From: bob sorenson <bob.sorenson@wasatchacademy.org>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 11:36:27 -0700
Greetings all.
I am trying to make some plans for another acre of bittersweet cider apples
to be planted this spring.
My question in particular is in regards to I might expect to sell heirloom
cider apples for? I've seen all kinds of figures on the net but wondered if
I might get a reasonable estimate or range of what I might expect from
those who in the know.
Even though I have owned and operated a winery in the past, I would like to
avoid the business of making and selling juice (but I do realize that the
apples and the juice are related!).
Do these figures seem reasonable?
IF 1 gallon juice equals $7 (hypothetical) then that means the apples would
be worth somewhat less than .35 cents/lb. IF I could sell the apples for
closer to $1/lb, which I think I can, I would have to sell the juice at
over $20/gallon to make it worth it. Please send your honest impressions of
these figures.
I've designed the orchard and potential juice to be used by cideries and
home brewers to blend with and also to avoid the huge taxes and hassle of
dealing with alcohol in Utah.
A huge thanks to the cider stalwarts on the forum here.
Bob Sorenson
Central Utah
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Books
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 23:26:40 -0700
Back in CD 2005 (good grief, over a month ago!) Thomas Green suggested:
> ...It would be helpful to me and perhaps others to have a
> list of books on cider as well as critiques by those who have read those
> books. i.e. how helpful are the books? How factual are they? Which are most
> informative to novices (such as myself), etc.? I think you get the idea.
I do get the idea, and understand the need..."but..." how do we do it??
Long convoluted answer to a straightforward question expressing a clear
need!...
It's a Good Thing when we have a particularly valuable book come out and
people talk it up. Think Claude's book, Andrew's 3rd edition, Ben's 3rd,
Tom Burford's, to name a few standouts. I've not been shy to review some
of them myself (trying not to abuse my relationship with my alter-ego the
Cider Digest janitor). But how does it work with the books that are near
the bottom? This isn't a good forum for bad-mouthing. More challenging:
how to deal with books in the mid-range, where a book may have some problems
yet have enough merit that it's worth owning.
To illustrate...I have ballpark 50 cider books on my bookshelf. I'm not a
rabid collector or I'd have several times more. Of those: Perhaps a dozen
are really good, books I'd say "you should own this", and be willing to
write a review proffering them. That's easy.
There's another dozen or more which are worth owning, yet a slight caution
for the new cidermaker because of minor mistakes or imbalances in view.
One could reasonably write a charitable review with cautions.
But then it gets difficult. There's another dozen which you really can't
recommend without serious cautions. If the author misunderstands sulfites
for example, you dare not suggest it to a neophyte.
And then there's the dregs, the lees, the books which serve no better
purpose than to keep dust off the shelf they're on. How to deal with them?
There are only a few, but given the rocketing interest in cider, every
publisher has decided they "need a cider book" and some of them aren't
willing to borrow a clue before they find an author.
You can suggest a rating system where readers rate the book, but that's
full of perils. Simple voting implies that every respondent understands
the topics equally! Votes from Andrew and Claude count the same as votes
from a newbie. Worse, you can't cull out the shills, the ballot-box
stuffers. So it needs to be arbitrated and moderated (a job my alter-ego
refuses to do).
Hey, I'd like to get more good info out on books. Tell my alter-ego how we
should go about it.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #2013
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