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Cider Digest #2005
Subject: Cider Digest #2005, 2 December 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #2005 2 December 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Data compilation available for Malus sieversii in the USDA collection (Eri...)
video: HARD CIDER THE HARD WAY - Aaron Burr Cidery, NY (J Davis)
Thanks and Don't Change ("Jerry McCourt")
Great Issue (joseph margevicius)
Re: Books ("Thomas Green")
UK Reflections on CD #2000 (Andrew Lea)
Phenolics, Flavonoids, Textures, oh My! (Leif)
Flash Pasteurizing (Ann Leadbetter)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Data compilation available for Malus sieversii in the USDA collection
From: Eric Johnson <domain@a-horizon.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:16:58 -0700
I've been gratified to hear from a bunch of apple growers interested in the
potential of *Malus sieversii *to provide novel genetics to new apple
cultivars. In the last couple of days, I've finished a compilation of
information about individuals in the USDA collection. I hope it may be
useful to anyone considering requesting any of this diverse material from
USDA.
Information about the data compilation may be found at:
https://www.widespreadmalus.com/?p=109
As a result of the interest, it looks like there's going to be a lot
more *Malus
sieversii *germplasm out there next year than we would have been able to
acquire ourselves. That's great to see!
In addition to pooling efforts to request and share scions from USDA,
several people are going to request and share seeds of open-pollinated *Malus
sieversii *to increase the diversity of the seed each person gets.
More participants are welcome ... please get in touch if you're interested.
Eric Johnson
Boulder, CO
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Subject: video: HARD CIDER THE HARD WAY - Aaron Burr Cidery, NY
From: J Davis <countryroad62@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 08:40:26 -0700
http://www.greatbigstory.com/stories/hard-cider-the-hard-way?iid=ob_wildcard_pho
tozone&iref=obnetwork
Short but good
Jim Davis
Mi Queso Es Su Queso y Mi Sidra Es Su Sidra y Mi Aguamiel Es Su Aguamiel
------------------------------
Subject: Thanks and Don't Change
From: "Jerry McCourt" <jmmccourt@centurytel.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 09:17:25 -0800
Hi Dick,
Your cider digest is the most appreciated item in my inbox. Thanks for your
work in keeping it going for so many years, though I have been receiving it
for only the last two or three.
I've been making cider for as long as the you have been "janitoring," and,
as a retired English teacher, I feel empowered to give you pardon for your
verbing.
My favorite ciders are my Jonagold and Gravenstein ciders, two varieties
that the Washington Extension says are the best single varieties for cider
and that I by chance happen to be growing for eating apples.
The format of the digest is definitely old school, but I see no reason for
changing.
Your grateful subscriber
Jerry McCourt
Lakebay, WA
------------------------------
Subject: Great Issue
From: joseph margevicius <jmargevicius@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 17:28:01 +0000
Your issue of November 27 was great. A wonderful look back as well as
forward, and reflects the opinions of many subscribers, I'm sure. And
thanks for all the years of fine "janitoring".
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Books
From: "Thomas Green" <pooroldtgreen@frontier.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:26:35 -0800
In #2004 Digest, you referred to Cider Books as part of your monologue. I
have a suggestion. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others to have a
list of books on cider as well as critiques by those who have read those
books. i.e. how helpful are the books? How factual are they? Which are most
informative to novices (such as myself), etc.? I think you get the idea.
Novice1
------------------------------
Subject: UK Reflections on CD #2000
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:28:21 +0000
Dick noted that we've passed Cider Digest issue #2000 and has given us
some of his reflections on that milestone. I've been a subscriber for
about 18 years I think. At the time I joined it was pretty much the only
serious online discussion group, and the cider landscape in the
English-speaking world was quite different from what it is today.
There was very little 'craft' North American or Australasian cider, and
the UK cider industry was dominated by just a few large players making
and marketing 'glucose wines' - nearly all the small producers had
closed or been bought out. There were a few remaining 'farmhouse
producers' making local products of notoriously variable quality, some
good but many not. Now in the UK we still have plenty of glucose
wines, but also a newly developed 'craft' industry which has brought
some real quality back to the marketplace in the last decade or so. Our
NACM estimates there may be over 400 small commercial cidermakers in the
UK now. Although in my view rather too many of them still fall into the
anti-scientific 'muck and magic' camp, where good fermentation science
and knowledge is wilfully ignored in the pursuit of some imagined rustic
purity ;-)
Back in the early 1990's I had tried to address this issue with a series
of magazine articles based on my previous professional experience at the
UK's Long Ashton Cider Research Station, which had closed due to
Thatcherism in 1985. Later I was able to decant them into my website,
and then via Cider Digest to respond in some way to many of those
seeking advice and assistance. There were few books available at that
time and much of what then passed for cidermaking advice was given by
brewers who viewed cider as an errant form of beer, rather than the wine
that it is.
We've come a long way since then. There's much better advice out there,
though there is still some bad stuff too. There's a wider range of
more trustworthy books on the market now. There are some good taught
courses. But there are also trends that maybe none of us would have
anticipated - for instance, the rise of fruit and herb flavoured ciders
as 'alcopop' substitutes and the virtual redefinition of 'cider' to mean
'anything fermented and flavoured', which is anathema to many of us
brought up in the old school where cider meant apple and nothing else.
Much as I regret these and the 'cider over ice' movement, one has to
recognise that it has raised the profile of cider overall, and perhaps
has the capacity to convert a fraction of uncritical trend-following
drinkers into people who will genuinely care about and appreciate a high
quality pure apple product. Perhaps ;-)
But throughout the change of the last 20 years, the Cider Digest has
been a fantastic source of advice and wisdom and knowledge exchange for
people who may be otherwise floundering. I have learnt a lot, and
contributed a bit, but overall I've met some great people in the craft
cider community (and many of them now in person) whom I'd never have
encountered in a pre-internet age. So many thanks to Jay who set the
Cider Digest up, and many many thanks to Dick who has run it for most of
its existence. Raise a glass to the next 2000 issues!
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Phenolics, Flavonoids, Textures, oh My!
From: Leif <leif.sundstrom@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:17:39 -0500
Who here has experience/knowledge about the location of an apples' phenolic
compounds (skin? pulp? both?) I know phenolics exist throughout the fruit,
but I'm curious about maceration of ground apples prior to pressing for the
express purpose of extracting more phenolics (namely of the flavonoid
variety) to both enhance antioxidant properties in the juice, as well as
enhance textures and aromatics in the final ciders.
Has anyone experimented with extended macerations with good or bad results?
If so, how long did you macerate for?
Did your juice ever settle clear after? on its own?
Dd you notice any benefits? etc...?
I see the potential dangers being oxidation (which sadly too few seem to
care about) and pectin setting somewhat. But it seems to me if done at a
cool enough temperature (and perhaps under some CO2) this would mitigate
the issues. Though, I have 60 gallons of siberian crabapple juice
fermenting beautifully after a 48 hour maceration of the ground pulp.
Juice is clear and, beautiful color, delicious, and happily fermenting.
Thought the acids and tannins are an anomaly that may have helped in
comparison to my russet varieties (for example).
Any thoughts?
Feel free to contact me on or off of this board.
Leif
------------------------------
Subject: Flash Pasteurizing
From: Ann Leadbetter <ann@meriwethercider.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 07:03:55 -0700
I'm wondering what are the pros and cons of flash pasteurization (besides
the cost!). Is it reliable? Does it alter the taste of the cider? Can you
pasteurize carbonated cider? Anything I should know?
Thanks.
Ann Leadbetter
Meriwether Cider
Boise, Idaho
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End of Cider Digest #2005
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