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Cider Digest #2043
Subject: Cider Digest #2043, 22 October 2016
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #2043 22 October 2016
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
AOL blocking Cider Digest (Cider Digest Admin)
pomace seedlings ("Eric C. Shatt")
Re: perry pears on standard (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: Spreading pomace (Andy Crown Brennan)
Pears for your heirs? (David Pickering)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: AOL blocking Cider Digest
From: Cider Digest Admin <cider-request@talisman.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 15:57:21 -0600
Folks - AOL has blocked the last two issues of the Cider Digest. If you
have friends who use AOL and haven't been getting digests recently, please
tell them that AOL has a problem. Obviously(?) I can't email them to tell
them, and I don't have any other way to reach them. There's nothing I can
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Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
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Subject: pomace seedlings
From: "Eric C. Shatt" <ecs222@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 18:19:04 +0000
Akiva silver wrote : Has anyone grown seedlings from pomace?, In the past
I have always separated seeds from flesh, but am wondering if I could lay
sheets of pomace down in a nursery bed.
Akiva, Yes!!, I did this last year. I plowed up a few hundred feet
of rows, spread lime, and then spread pomace and lightly raked by hand.
Tons of seedlings emerged this spring and grew well although neglected
with weeds and drought. My plan now is to transplant the "desirable"
seedlings into a more controllable row with irrigation and take care of
them for a year or two before planting out. I think the lime helped as
the pomace alone is rather acidic and could potentially acidify the soil.
Eric Shatt
Redbyrd Cider
Burdett NY
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Subject: Re: perry pears on standard
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 15:54:36 -0400
In CD 2042, Jon Notz asked about perry pears on standard rootstock:
> Is that typical for it to take that long to get pear fruit on seedling
> rootstock??? Or is it just certain varieties?
Jon, the number of years required for a standard tree to start fruiting
depends a lot on conditions. If the tree is in good soil where there is
nice climate and if it has chances to make good growth on the early
years, it will go faster.
For my part, my pear trees on seedling rootstock all took about 10 years
for first fruits, and about 15 years before sizeable crops... However,
my orchard has relatively poor soil and hard climatic conditions. It
could be faster for you.
Now, if you'd like fruit faster, you could plant dwarf trees in between
the standards, and you could cut them down when the standards reach
sufficient size - in about 25 or maybe 30 years.
And remember the saying: a pear tree takes 100 years to reach maturity,
will be fully productive for 100 years, and will decline and finally die
in another 100 years, for a total life span of 300 years. (in French
they say "100 ans pour grandir, 100 ans pour produire, et 100 ans pour
mourir".) Hence think you are planting those for your children and grand
children...
I was in France this summer, in the Domfront area, where I have seen a
lot of superb old perry pear trees, of 200+ years that produce over a
ton of fruit per tree. Also, as you mention, there is a lot of new
plantings of standard high-stem pear trees - they usually plant pears at
10 meter spacing although some are at 8 meter spacing.
And a little further, thanks for the appreciation...
> from reading The New Cider Makers Handbook (excellent book btw)
Claude
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Subject: Re: Spreading pomace
From: Andy Crown Brennan <CROWNARTS@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 16:44:44 -0400
> Has anyone grown seedlings from pomace?, In the past I have always
> separated seeds from flesh, but am wondering if I could lay sheets of
> pomace down in a nursery bed.
> Thank you for your time,
> Akiva
Hi Akiva,
Over the years I now have a whole mountain-side of seedlings from pomace. I
just toss shovels of it from the pickup truck.
I found it's good to have big-heavy clumps of it rather than a thin spread.
In most areas the seedlings come up like grass. Many even come up on ledge.
But it depends on the seed source...
I am spreading pomace from seedling trees, parents that have proven to be
adapted to this area.
I can't say what spreading seeds from eating apples will do. I suspect not
as well unless you parent them a little in a nursery bed, as you suggested.
But I also doubt you will get desirable apple varieties from the first
generation pippins. They might be in a no-man's-land between eating and
cider varieties, but the root systems will come in handy graft wood!
- -Andy Brennan
Aaron Burr Cider
Catskills/ Hudson Valley
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Subject: Pears for your heirs?
From: David Pickering <davidp@cideroz.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 21:14:17 +1100
Jon Notz was asking about the time taken for pears on standard
rootstocks to come into bearing:
"but I really would not like to have to wait 20 years before I get any
fruit"
Unfortunately this is the trade-off when wanting to have large trees.
Standard pear (and apple) trees are trees of a chosen scion variety on a
vigorous rootstock and sometimes with an interstem thrown into the mix.
The interstem may be there to either give a clean stem that gets the
scion variety up above cattle browsing height, or to ensure
compatibility between rootstock and scion. Vigorous rootstocks mean the
trees will grow and grow, hence taking their time settling down and
coming into bearing.
The alternative to a prolonged wait for bearing is to graft onto a less
vigorous rootstock such as Quince A or Quince C but this of course
doesn't produce the big tree preferred nor the ability to graze
underneath without tree damage.
Cheers - David
<http://www.cideraustralia.org.au/>
David Pickering - "Linden Lea" 681 Huntley Road, ORANGE NSW 2800
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End of Cider Digest #2043
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