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Cider Digest #1994
Subject: Cider Digest #1994, 16 October 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1994 16 October 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #1992, 11 October 2015 (Andrew Leighton)
Re: Freeze Cider? (Charles McGonegal)
RE: freeze cider? ()
aging cider ("Mike Beck")
Registration OPEN - Cider Conference 2016 ("James Kohn")
Cider Ageing (Andrew Lea)
Re: Question for cider digest (Marc Shapiro)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1992, 11 October 2015
From: Andrew Leighton <andrew.leighton@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 08:31:40 +0100
Further to the maceration debate, I have a technique which I believe is
not common and I'm curious to understand its downsides and any possible
benefits. I freeze culinary and dessert fruit prior to pressing. The fruit
sits "tumped" in chest freezers for up to a month. Once it defrosts, the
fruit is very soft and spongy and I find it cannot be pulped. Therefore
I press it directly whole, which seems to yield as much juice as from
pulping. After pressing the fruits are dry and the process leaves just
fibrous flesh afterwards. All the juice appears to have been extracted.
Obviously without pulping the skins, am I losing valuable tannins and
complexity from adopting this approach?
Thanks,
Andrew Leighton
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Freeze Cider?
From: Charles McGonegal <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 19:41:56 -0500
In general, yes. Thawing can be tricky. I freeze about 270 gallons in 330
gallon IBC. Takes about a month to thaw. And I did loose one to a runaway
LAB infection when I wasn't paying attention.
I've also repeatedly encountered diethyl disulfide generation fermenting
thawed juice. Still working out if it's a nutrient loss or dissolved oxygen
problem. Bought new sensors this year to try to figure it out.
Charles
AEppeltreow's Ciderwright.
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Artisan Cider & Spirits
(262)496-7508
------------------------------
Subject: RE: freeze cider?
From: <Jack.Graham@HHCiderApples.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 19:27:45 -0700
Subject: freeze cider?
From: JOHN JONES <burningtreefarm@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 01:36:55 +0000
Can I freeze cider, to be fermented at later date?
Yes, but be careful.
I had one (or two) of my apple varieties have so much sugar they did not
freeze (top part did, but bottom became syrup) at 0F.
And it fermented! (Not sure if it was in the freezing, thawing, or sitting
there, but it fermented.)
Caused the jugs they were in to expand and crack.
But most of the varieties were fine, but now I always pasteurize before I
freeze.
Jack
------------------------------
Subject: aging cider
From: "Mike Beck" <mjbeck@ujcidermill.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 08:42:15 -0400
Craig,
I find that most cider's do not age well. Cider's made with tannic fruit
probably will go the distance further than non-tannic fruit. Also, if you
are not using sulphite they will probably age very poorly. The lower
alcohol level compared to grape wines that will age well makes a huge
difference too. I find that fortified and ice ciders age fairly well. Or
motto in the tasting room is "Savor it, do not save it, we will make more".
Drink them all up just before the next years cider is ready.
M. Beck
Saint Johns, MI
------------------------------
Subject: Registration OPEN - Cider Conference 2016
From: "James Kohn" <james@wanderingaengus.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 07:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
Registration is open for Cider Conference 2016. Register
at? http://ciderconference.com/registration/
CiderCON 2016 is February 2-5, 2016 in Portland, Oregon
Offering a Vendor Trade Show offering products & services specific to Cider
and over 70 sessions on growing, making, marketing, selling and the
business of Cider, CiderCON is the place for the Cider Industry.
Check out the full schedule at? http://ciderconference.com/schedule/
I hope to see you in Portland.
Cheers,
James Kohn
Founder & Chair, Cider Conference
Co-Owner, Wandering Aengus Ciderworks
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Ageing
From: Andrew Lea <andrew@harphill.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 11:10:35 +0100
> Subject: Question for cider digest
> From: Craig Teerlink <Craig.Teerlink@hsc.utah.edu>
> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:38:03 +0000
>
> I've noticed all of my ciders that have been stored over two years do not
> age well; they have all become very sharp and off balance with respect to
> body and acidity, compared to when they were bottled.
This sounds like unwanted lactic or acetic acid bacterial activity to
me. Acetic acid bacteria should only be a problem if air is getting in,
but some LAB will generate acetic acid anerobically. LAB may also take
down the malic acid to lactic, hence changing the acid balance. Do you
use sufficient SO2 at bottling? It is normal to add 50 ppm to get a
target value of 30 ppm free SO2 after bottling (though that will
diminish in time). Are your bottled ciders stored very warm? I'd guess
Utah gets quite hot in summer. Two years is a good life for most cider
anyway, unless maybe it's formally bottle conditioned.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
www.cider.org.uk
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Question for cider digest
From: Marc Shapiro <marcnshap@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 18:42:54 -0700
On 10/14/2015 04:44 PM, cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Subject: Question for cider digest
> From: Craig Teerlink <Craig.Teerlink@hsc.utah.edu>
> Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:38:03 +0000
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like to post the following question to the cider digest:
>
> I've noticed all of my ciders that have been stored over two years do not
> age well; they have all become very sharp and off balance with respect to
> body and acidity, compared to when they were bottled. I would expect the
> aging process to make a smoother drink, like what I've experienced with
> wines. All of my past attempts seem to behave this way, I have about four
> or five examples, and it really had me wondering what may be going on.
> I am wondering if others have experienced this also, or not, and if this
> is a feature of cider, if anyone has an explanation.
>
Someone please correct me if I am wrong. I don't make a lot of cider.
I have made a lot of wine, including apple wines. I would not expect
cider to age like a wine. It is not wine. The alcohol content is much
lower than that in wine. A low alcohol wine, say 10% or 11% is not
going to age well. A higher alcohol content wine, say 13% or 14% will
age much better. The alcohol acts as a preservative at higher
concentrations and prevents wild yeast and bacteria (like acetobacter)
from thriving and giving the wine an off taste. With the even lower
alcohol content in cider there is even less preservative action.
I don't try to keep low alcohol wine, or cider. I drink it up. On the
other hand, I have higher alcohol content wines that I bottled 25 to 30
years ago that are still quite excellent.
Marc Shapiro
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End of Cider Digest #1994
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