Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1912
Subject: Cider Digest #1912, 13 November 2014
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1912 13 November 2014
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Perry trees (T)
Re: Cider Digest #1911, 11 November 2014 (Eric Pennell)
Cider Research (Rich Anderson) (Nat West)
Bottling Machines ("Mc Canna, Keith")
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Perry trees
From: T <travest@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:06:59 -0700
Amateur cider maker here. I've been grafting an old crab over to a
frankenstein cider Apple tree. Being in an urban area with limited yard
space, I have been looking for some land to plant more trees especially
perry trees. I have been donated some land for planting but it's high up
in the mountains.
Anyone growing perry trees in a 5a growing zone? Suggestions for varieties?
I am most concerned about the short growing season(64 days).
Thanks,
Travis
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1911, 11 November 2014
From: Eric Pennell <ericlouispennell@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:28:14 -0600
> Subject: Cider Research
> From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 21:33:42 -0800
>
> Ok Digesters here is something to chew on. Granted I do not know a lot about
> what is going on in the cider world regarding research, particularly in the
> US where some grant money is flowing. Given the growth in cider in the US
> there seems to be a bit going on. I remarked in a email to a local state
> university researcher that from my perspective a lot of it was opaque as to
> what the purpose and value was and inept in implementation. I started to
> write a letter to the researcher explaining my perspective, but stopped
> because I do not really know what should be researched. What I see in the NW
> is an lot of emphasis on making cider from traditional bitter apples. Well
> and good , an interesting subject but I think it is replicating of research
> that was done in the last century at Long Ashton. Also consider that
> probably 80-90% of the cider sold in the US is not made from traditional
> bitter apples. So I guess my question is what should we be researching and
> how to direct or at least suggest from a regional association and national
> organization focus? Given that our boards are unpaid, running their own
> cideries etc how can we rationalize our resources and get research of value
> implemented instead of another survey of bitter apples?
I think a relevant question in the minds of both consumers and producers
are the differences between cider made from concentrate and ciders made
from fresh pressed juice. Comparisons of flavor profile and perception,
aromas, final gravity/sugar content, shelf life, yeast interaction, etc.
For instance, take a fresh pressed juice sample and some concentrate made
from that same juice, ferment both with the same yeast under the same
conditions and compare the results.
THAT would be an interesting study.
Great topic!
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Research (Rich Anderson)
From: Nat West <natjwest@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:55:38 -0800
> From: "Rich Anderson" <rhanderson@centurytel.net>
>
> ... Also consider that
> probably 80-90% of the cider sold in the US is not made from traditional
> bitter apples. So I guess my question is what should we be researching and
> how to direct or at least suggest from a regional association and national
> organization focus? ... how can we rationalize our resources and get
> research of value
> implemented instead of another survey of bitter apples?
Great question Richard, and very well put, especially from one in your
position. I always thought that if I complained about the way the grant
money (my tax money!) is being spent, it would be poo-pooed since I was
"that guy fermenting pineapples in his garage".
Like you, I don't know what research I need, but I do not need to know more
about how to grow English cider apples in the Pacific Northwest. For those
of you in attendance at this fall's NWCA general meeting in Seattle, Jeff
Parrish from Portland Cider Co asked a similar question and the main
researcher in Mt Vernon went completely on the defensive. I remember her
only answer was: "It's in the name of basic science!"
- -Nat West, Portland Oregon
------------------------------
Subject: Bottling Machines
From: "Mc Canna, Keith" <kmccanna@dresden-is.de>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:47:07 +0100
Looking for some feedback or advice from small cider operators, or
suppliers of bottling equipment for cider, on the types and capacity of the
bottling machines they are using and how they find them. Looking for
essentially personal experiences.
I want to be able to bottle 200 - 1000 L batches in either 500 ml and/ or
750 ml glass bottles. The cider will go into the bottles as still cider or
as cider with residual carbonation following malolactic fermentation. The
cider will be back carbonated either with individual dosages added to the
bottles or most likely with the dextrose being added and dissolved fully
into the batch first. And then bottling the batch. I am not sure if there
is a machine that can measure out a set mass of Dextrose and add this to
the bottle - so a batch addition seems to be the way to go before bottling
1000 L.
The cider will be stored in Speidel stainless steel 1000 l tanks and thus
be needed to be moved from these into the bottling machine.
Most likely the bottling and capping will be done by one or two peopleAnd
the bottles will be capped with a crown cap.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1912
*************************
