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Cider Digest #1968
Subject: Cider Digest #1968, 4 June 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1968 4 June 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Linguistic issue with brewing (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: Cider Digest #1967, 1 June 2015 (T)
Use of ale yeast to ferment cider (denniswaller@comcast.net)
Re Cider Digest #1967 Seattle cideries (Kenny Tuomi)
Scott goes to Seattle ()
the US non-Tremlett's Bitter (Dick Dunn)
Historical query (Curtis Sherrer)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Linguistic issue with brewing
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoliprsf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2015 13:21:27 -0400
There has been quite a bit of terminology discussion recently on the
expression "brewing cider"...
I'll add my pinch of French salt here... I know I have mentioned this
before, but not sure if it was on this digest. So, for those who have
heard it before, sorry!
In French the expression "brasser les pommes" or "le brassage" are
traditional expressions that have been used for as long as cider has
been made in France for the operation of extracting the juice from the
apples, i.e. milling and pressing. And sometimes in old texts we can
read "brasseur de cidre".
Also in French, a beer brewer is a "brasseur de bière" and the operation
of making the beer is called "brassage". Hence in French, the same word,
which is the translation of brewing, is used for both beer and cider.
Looking at a French - English dictionary for "brasser" I see the
following translations:
to brew (beer), to mix, to toss, to shuffle (playing cards)
but nothing about milling and pressing apples! But by extension
when having a pressing day, we'll mix the apples and toss them in the
mill. But we won't brew them.
Anyway, maybe this persisting habit of saying "brewing cider" comes from
French...
Claude Jolicoeur
Author, /The New Cider Maker's Handbook
/http://www.cjoliprsf.ca/
http://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/the_new_cider_makers_handbook/
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1967, 1 June 2015
From: T <travest@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 11:21:37 -0600
Thanks for all the responses to my enquiry, be they direct to me or to
the cider digest.
While most of the responses focused on the definition of brewing and how
it just didn't apply to cider making, I was more interested in a deeper
philosophical discussion. I myself haven't brewed a batch of cider but I
have been making it for a bit over a decade.
I did once try to evaporate a portion of the water from some juice to
raise the potential abv and if I remember correctly, that batch was a
success. Of course, I didn't approach a simmer, let alone a boil.
I do have to apologize for not mentioning the obvious difference between
the two and for the use of disdain. Seems like frustration would of been
more apt.
In my conversations with my coworkers at the beer brewery, the idea that
the juice wouldn't even be pasteurized before being fermented was a huge
concepts that they could not wrap their heads around. The other big thing
was the reliance on sulfites. My impression from these discussions was that
they saw cider making as being rather a rather laissez-faire endeavor with
the lack of pasteurization pre-fermentation and the use of what they saw
as a poison in sulfite.
Anyhow, this will teach me to better formulate an email. Thank you yet
again for all your responses
------------------------------
Subject: Use of ale yeast to ferment cider
From: denniswaller@comcast.net
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 17:23:05 +0000 (UTC)
During a visit to Boston last week I purchased two glasses of draft Downeast
"original blend" cider (Downeast Cider House
200 Terminal St.Boston, MA 02129) ; it was some of the best cider I have
ever tasted. This morning one of the owners told me they use White Labs
California Ale Yeast to ferment their cider. I have consistently used
white wine yeast to ferment cider during the ten yeast I have fermented
cider for the personal consumption of my family and friends. Many years
ago I did experiment with a beer yeast but I was dissatisfied with the
taste and did not repeat that experiment.
I would like to know how many cidermakers use ale yeast and which yeast
varieties have produced the best flavor?
Dennis Waller
Bellingham WA
denniswaller@comcast.net
------------------------------
Subject: Re Cider Digest #1967 Seattle cideries
From: Kenny Tuomi <merimies@icloud.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2015 10:36:56 -0700
I recommend the Port Townsend cider loop.
http://visitjeffersoncountywa.com/activities/Port-Townsend-Cidery-Map
It's a good excuse to ride our scenic ferry system.
Ken Tuomi
------------------------------
Subject: Scott goes to Seattle
From: <lotic@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 13:54:00 -0400
Hi Scott,
VERY jealous of your trip out to the Northwest.
There are many, many great ciders coming from that neck of the woods.
Before you go, check out the Northwest Cider Association website:
http://www.nwcider.com/
At that site, you can find many member cideries and links to their
websites.
To be sure, there are still more cideries that are not members.
You can also go to the Cydermarket website:
https://cydermarket.com/Washington.html
You might want to check in at Capitol Cider in Seattle when you arrive:
http://www.capitolcider.com/
This is a cider bar (that I have always wanted to visit). I'm sure they
have many regional ciders there and can tell you of cideries that have
tasting rooms and welcome visitors.
Washington State University at Mount Vernon (No, not George Washington's
old home) does a LOT of apple and cider research. I'd stop there too.
But, maybe, that's just me.
http://ext100.wsu.edu/maritimefruit/hard-cider/
Send pics...or, a bottle or two.
- -Peter Mitchell
Headwater Cider
(on the other coast)
------------------------------
Subject: the US non-Tremlett's Bitter
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 18:34:39 -0600
In the US we have a bittersharp apple which has been widely distributed as
"Tremlett's Bitter", but it is not the proper English variety, which is a
bittersweet. The two share character of an abundance of tannin, hard
tannin at that.
It's not only widely distributed, but the ID mistake is now widely known.
Seems it originated at the Geneva research station in New York state.
Anyway...I've heard the US not-a-Tremlett called "Geneva Tremlett's" to
distinguish it from the true Tremlett's Bitter, and I've even taken to
calling it that. BUT I can't recall where I first heard this, and I don't
know whether it's widely used. Any thoughts on this?
The pleasant irony is that the mis-ID'd variety is actually a rather nice
cider apple. I haven't been nearly bold enough to make a varietal cider of
it, but it's a real help in a blend that needs a nudge in character. So
I'd like to be able to describe it to other cidermakers/orchardists without
resorting to a short essay of its provenance...I just want a name.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Historical query
From: Curtis Sherrer <redbrickmill@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 14:33:09 +0000 (UTC)
Historic Additives
Hello Everyone,
I'm researching additives that were historically common forciders, both
here and abroad. The 1825Edition of The American Orchardist states that:
"An English writer says an infusion of hops is useful togive it a flavour
and agreeable bitter. Another recommends grinding elder berries with the
fruit, which givesthe cider a fine colour as well as a flavour. Rye whiskey
is likewiserecommended as a good substitute for cider-spirits to mix with
the newcider. Ginger, cinnamon, spices, raisins,&c. have their advocates
who assure us they are very good ingredients incider."
The American Orchardist also states that some recommendadding sugar, honey,
molasses, "or other sweet substances" to raise the finalalcohol.
A good source of info on New Englandcider is Ben Watson"s Cider, Hard &
Sweet where generally raisins andmolasses were used to create a unique
and popular cider.
A long time and valuable contributor Andrew Lea reports inhis "Science of
Cider Making" that "[t]raditionalcider-makers used to hang a leg of mutton
or a side of beef in the fermentingvat to boost the nutrient levels."
Wehave yet to try that one, but it's on the list.
If anyone else has knows of any historic additives, I wouldappreciate
the information.
Curt SherrerMillStone Cellars2019 Monkton RoadMonkton MD 21111
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End of Cider Digest #1968
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