Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #1965
Subject: Cider Digest #1965, 25 May 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1965 25 May 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re: Philosophy of cider making (T) (Silas Bleakley)
Re: Cider Digest #1964, 20 May 2015 RE: Subject: Philosophy of cider ()
Re: Philosophy of cider making (Dick Dunn)
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
Archives of the Digest are available at www.talisman.com/cider#Archives
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Philosophy of cider making (T)
From: Silas Bleakley <silas@rackandcloth.com>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 16:05:18 -0700
Long time reader, first time poster. Hope I'm getting the format/reply
structure right.
Brewing implies a heated product. One brews coffee, tea, and beer. In my
cidering I hold almost penultimately important that the liquid not rise
above ~55 degrees Fahrenheit (possibly eclipsed by "good fruit in, good
cider out"). To actually apply heat is incomprehensible.
But that's just like, my opinion, man.
Silas Bleakley
Rack & Cloth
Mosier, OR
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1964, 20 May 2015 RE: Subject: Philosophy of cider
From: <kirknkim@htcnet.org>
Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 21:05:56 -0400
From: T <travest@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 16:53:06 -0600
I am a homebrewer of cider and fruit wines but work at a brewery. I often
have conversations at work about brewing beer and making cider, meads,
and fruit wines with beer Brewers.
>From what I've read here and in several books, there seems to be a disdain
for the term of brewing when applied to cider making. There also seems to
be an undercurrent that the attitude of making beer should not be applied
when making cider.
Hey Travis,
It's a common mistake and one I hear quite often. I get several questions
about brewing cider.
>From the dictionary online:
brew (bru??) verb
1. (Brewing) to make (beer, ale, etc) from malt and other ingredients by
steeping, boiling, and fermentation
2. (Cookery) to prepare (a drink, such as tea) by boiling or infusing
Simply put, cider is not brewed (boiled or steeped, etc). Hopefully it's
not disdain you are reading, but more of a disappointment that it is not
understood. Winemakers don't "brew" wine, and cidermakers don't "brew"
cider, but Beermakers do "brew" beer. It is not as if anyone is looking
down on the process, in fact the process to brew beer is more complicated
than fermenting cider. I admire my friends that make a good brew. I hope
to learn the process myself at some point.
It's just a terminology issue with cidermakers, not disdain.
Keep making (not brewing) those ciders and fruit wines.
Sincerely,
Kirk Billingsley
Big Fish Cider, Co.
info@bigfishcider.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Philosophy of cider making
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 22:48:07 -0600
In the last Digest, "Travis" asked a couple questions--one straightforward,
the other far more challenging! The easy one:
> there seems to be a disdain for the term of brewing when applied to
> cider making...
That's as simple as the fact that it's not the right word for the process.
"brewing" involves heat and soaking (infusion). We don't do either of
those, so the word doesn't fit any more than we'd say that we "braise" a
cider.
The much deeper question revolves around:
>...There also seems to be an undercurrent that the attitude of making beer
> should not be applied when making cider.
There are various differences in attitude, but it can be hard to get a
handle on what they are, and I think it's worth pursuing this. Among other
reasons, we have a lot of (home)brewers drifting over into cider, so it's
useful to think about how to guide them.
Brewers want fermentations to start as fast as possible; "lag time" is a
bad thing. Craft cidermakers often want fermentations to go slower, since
fast fermentation can kill desirable development but encourage unpleasant
esters. That's just one simplistic aspect.
It's a rare brewer indeed who has any interest in growing own hops, let
alone own malt. But cidermakers often consider having their own orchards
to be part of the process, or at least a goal for down the road. Brewers
aren't so much interested in controlling their ingredients because they can
buy what they need from skilled growers/producers.
Brewers think in terms of recipes because they can buy ingredients with
repeatable, predictable characteristics. Cidermakers (craft anyway) deal
with considerable variations in the fruit from year to year, as well as
variations in what's available at all. So there may be a general idea of a
blend the cidermaker likes, but it doesn't really come together until the
fruit has been pressed and evaluated.
OK, obligatory statement: Cidermaking is winemaking. That's the angle
from which we attack it. That's the right frame of reference to start.
But then, how can we confront, and work with (helpfully), the differences
between winemaking and brewing?
> I understand many of the differences between brewing beer and making
> cider but I find myself unable to verbalized it. Any of you care to take
> a whack at it? Cider making is a more holistic endeavor and brewing more
> industrial? Help me out here...
"holistic" vs "industrial" captures some of the difference, but it seems
unfair to the brewers, doesn't it?
I have had conversations with other cidermakers trying to get a handle on
the cidermaking/brewing difference, and they used somewhat similar terms,
so I think you're on the right track with the -question-. But I can't get
very far on the -answer-. Sorry.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #1965
*************************
