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Cider Digest #1940
Subject: Cider Digest #1940, 6 February 2015
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1940 6 February 2015
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
RE: equipment is needed to fill a 5lb CO2 tank from a 20lb CO2 (Jay Hersh)
Re: Cider Digest #1939, 4 February 2015 (WV Mountaineer Jack)
Re: Cider Digest #1939, 4 February 2015 (Phillip Kelm)
Re: backsweetening (Charles McGonegal)
Re: equipment needed to fill 5lb CO2 tank from 20lb (Dick Dunn)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: RE: equipment is needed to fill a 5lb CO2 tank from a 20lb CO2
From: Jay Hersh <jsh@doctorbeer.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2015 18:55:17 -0500
At 04:15 PM 2/4/2015, cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
>Does anyone know which equipment will enable you to safely charge a 5lb
>CO2 tank from a 20lb CO2 tank? In this area it is proportionately much
>more expensive to fill the 5lb tank than the 20lb tank.
Pretty sure you can't do this. The tanks are pressurized. When you
open them and the CO2 flows out the pressure drops as it exits.
So you'd still need a compressor to do the transfer and working with
compressed gas is dangerous and isn't something that someone not
trained in handling materials under pressure should be doing.
- - Jay H aka Dr. Beer (TM)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1939, 4 February 2015
From: WV Mountaineer Jack <wvmountaineerjack@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 00:41:44 +0000 (UTC)
Cidermaking and mead, I dont see how cyser can be not popular here, since
bees pollinate the apples used to make cider, no bees no apples no cider,
and apple flower honey is very good, and buying honey helps supports
beekeepers who help us grow more apples, and my beehives are right under
my apple trees, its kind of a natural circle to include a little chat on
cysers?? Jack Blackford in WV
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1939, 4 February 2015
From: Phillip Kelm <phil_kelm@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 04:21:47 +0000 (UTC)
In response to Dennis Waller's question about filling CO2 cylinders with
other cylinders: We do this often, but it isn't inherently safe! Ideally
you need a donor cylinder with a siphon tube. This allows the liquid from
the bottom of the cylinder to be transferred to the receiving cylinder.
It's also good technique to cool the receiving cylinder to allow the liquid
to be added without flashing to gas immediately just to cool the cylinder.
If the hose you use has valves at each end, be sure to open them immediately
after use, otherwise the liquid inside the hose is likely to expand and
rupture the hose in a hot environment. My suggestion would be to pay the
extra cash to have someone else fill your tanks professionally. Good luck!
Phillip Kelm -
www.GitcheGumeeBreweryServices.com
Worldwide Brewery Installation & Engineering Services
Manager of the Palau Brewing Company,
Home of Red Rooster Beers!
------------------------------
Subject: Re: backsweetening
From: Charles McGonegal <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 08:29:38 -0600
NAR wrote:
Andrew, I don't think you're saying that all AJC contains Zygo baillii?
What if the AJC is made from pasteurized juice and kept cold (assuming the
pasteurization of the juice is "good"). Is it widely common for Zygo to
appear in AJC?
Nat, I've never had trouble with aseptic packed AJC from China or South Afri=
ca (what I can get easily in Chicago). But I have had problems with Pear jui=
ce concentrate. I think it depends a lot on plant conditions.=20
Sent from my iPhone
Charles McGonegal
AEppelTreow Winery
Artisan Cider & Spirits
(262)496-7508=
------------------------------
Subject: Re: equipment needed to fill 5lb CO2 tank from 20lb
From: Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 15:58:36 -0700
Dennis Waller asked:
> Does anyone know which equipment will enable you to safely charge a 5lb
> CO2 tank from a 20lb CO2 tank? In this area it is proportionately much
> more expensive to fill the 5lb tank than the 20lb tank.
Big difference in cost is similar here--$12 for 5 lb, $13 for 20 lb.
Intriguing, although I'd never do it myself nor suggest that anyone else
try it. Safety is not just having the equipment, but knowing how to use it
and what can go wrong.
Obvious first thing is that you'd have to be able to mount the supply tank
inverted so you could get liquid instead of gas out, and sturdily enough
that it doesn't tip over. Then some sort of proper high-pressure hose with
couplings and valves, and a good scale...well, I could guess but instead
I went to our local gas supplier and posed the question.
First answer was, "Yes, technically it is possible. But I'm not going to
tell you how to do it because it's way too dangerous." We discussed all
of what could go wrong.
Big point I got out of it is that this is just not how CO2 cylinders are
filled commercially. It's not transferred from some big supply; it's
pumped.
To do it with a transfer from an end-user tank you'd have to work out
chilling the receiving tank, venting overpressure but not just opening it
up, etc. You'd lose a lot of gas in the process. They guessed you -might-
be able to fill two 5-lb cylinders from a 20, and that of course raises the
additional safety issue of having a working situation that properly
exhausts the wasted 10 lb or so of CO2. (You should stay below 1% in the
air for even short-term safety.)
Really, you can't do it safely. Once you understand all it takes, you'd
do it differently.
And all this begs the question of why you'd do it! Even at the cost of a
5 lb fill, CO2 is cheap relative to the amount of cider it carbonates.
- --
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #1940
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